What Am I Doing Wrong???

amulford

FOR SOME REASON I KEEP BLOWING DRIVERS...

I HAVE A SPEAKER SETUP AS FOLLOWS:

MAINS - RT2000P's
CENTER - CSI40
SIDE AXIS - F/X 1000's
REAR SURROUNDS - RT55I's
SUB - USING THE 2000'S AT LINE LEVEL

I WAS DRIVING THIS SET UP WITH A DENON 1803 (MINUS THE
55's). IT WAS ONLY PUSHING 80 W PER, AND THE 2000's DRIVERS WOULD FREAK AND GO. I THINK MAYBE I WAS ASKING FOR TOO MUCH AND THE DISTORTION WOULD KILL 'EM. THE WIFE IS TELLING I LIKE IT TOO LOUD...OK, OK...

SO I ASK FOR SOME ADVICE AND I'M TOLD TO INCREASE THE POWER RATIO.

I THINK AND I SHOP AROUND AND SPLURGE FOR A SUNFIRE ULTIMATE RECEIVER (OH WOW, 7.1 AT 200W PER). SHE'S READY TO FREAKIN' KILL ME, BUT I TELL HER I WON'T BE BLOWING ANY MORE SPEAKERS, 'CAUSE NOW I HAVE THE POWER....

I SET THE RECEIVER UP WITH THE LOW PASS SENDING EVERYTHING 160Hz AND DOWN TO THE SUBS, ALL THE SPEAKER SIZES SET TO SMALL TO SAVE THE MIDS. AT FIRST EVERYTHING IS AWSOME. DUDE, YOU CAN'T TURN IT ALL THE WAY UP WITHOUT PAIN.

TODAY MY 2000's LOST THE MIDS, AGAIN!!!!

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG????

mantis

TURN IT DOWN ****!!!!!!!


OK,
do not go past the 0 point on the volume,your going right into distortion and blowing your speakers....not good.Same thing will happen no matter what you buy if you crank it into distortion.

Having it to the point of distortion is bad for your hearing.You want to hear tomarrow correct????re read the first line.;)

Demiurge

I have to agree with Mantis. What is the point of crankin' your system that loud? If you don't have the proper setup you can't do that crap and I don't know why you want to anyone.

The idea of spending money on good audio equipment is to get BETTER sound not neccessarily louder sound...

I realize I didn't answer you questions, but It just seems like you have it too loud based on what you're saying.

Frank Z

Originally posted by mantis
TURN IT DOWN ****!!!!!!!

The guy has got a total of 3 posts and your calling HIM an ****. Way to go, chase another guy off!

Demiurge

Originally posted by Frank Z
The guy has got a total of 3 posts and your calling HIM an ****. Way to go, chase another guy off!

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10448

amulford

Originally posted by mantis
TURN IT DOWN ****!!!!!!!


I THINK YOU GUYS ARE MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT I MEAN...

I PUT MORE POWER SO I WOULDN'T HAVE TO CRANK IT UP AS FAR. I WAS NOT UP MORE THAN MAYBE 75%.

I UNDERSTAND THE DISTORTION EQUATION.

TroyD

Originally posted by mantis
TURN IT DOWN ****!!!!!!!

I echo Frank's sentiments, I think Dan owes the guy an apology.

BDT

pjdami

amulford,

I have owned many receivers in the past and have NEVER gone to 75% volume on them.

Even now with the Rotel RSX 1055, the max volume I ever go is 62 out of a max of 90 (for two channel audio) and this is only for a brief passage. I may do this briefly just to show off my system occasionally. That's about 68%. It's on the verge of sounding distorted.

Normal "loud" volume for me is about 58 / 90 or 64%. This is in the comfort zone.

My Yamaha receiver that I had a month ago, I only used to go to about 60% of the volume range before the music sounded strained and shouty. The Onkyo I had before that maybe 60 - 65%.

Most receivers should fall in the 50 - 60% of the volume range (12 o'clock to 1 o'clock with the old style dial like my old Harmon Kardon); beyond that its distortion.

75% is too much. I'm curious as to what % others max their receivers at. Not to hijack your thread or anything but its a good discussion.

Paul

polkatese

On average to loud listening level, I would push my Rotel RSX-1065 to 45-50 (2 channels) and the B&K Ref50 to about -20 on the dial.

pjdami

Polkatese,

Is that % on the Rotel or 45 - 50 out of ???...

Paul

polkatese

Paul,
that would be out of 90 (Max) as yours...or about 56% on the upper range. Anymore than that, I am afraid it might pushed the woof on LSi9 to the danger zone....

danger boy

On my Marantz receiver. for stereo listening I usually run between 43 - 58 out of 90. for home theater it takes more power to run the system..so closer to 55 - 72 out of 90max. my receiver goes from 10 - 90

I like it somewhat loud.. but i have never reached distortion, ever. I hope not to hear what it sounds like either.

brettw22

I dunno if this ties in exactly, but why is there a difference between different sources? For instance, for me to watch TV a little on the loud side, I listen at -11 or so and sometimes have to go to flat 0 Reference Level. But if I was to pop in a CD or DVD, that would blow me out of my couch..........why the difference if the sound is all being amplified through the same receiver?

mantis

amulford,
I might be alittle out of line with what I said but my point remains.Drive any system into distortion and see what happens to your speakers.As your post read,I believed you had your system into distortion.
The advice given about headroom is mostl ikely what you need.Adding more power will increase your overall DB levels.

FrankZ,
Don't post directly to me,I have nothing to say to you.

TroyD,
Ditto

Demiurge,
isn't it the way around here???I mean come on Russ created a song about being a dickhead......why bother fighting it....

Just put me down on the list.......I'm no different then any of you.

mantis

I was going to reply to that but I'm pretty much speechless......

Frank Z

Originally posted by ATCVenom
As you very well should be.

Go Sean Go!!:D

F1nut

amulford,

First off, welcome to the forum.

Second, 75% on any amp/receiver is too much. As a few others have stated, 50-60% is about all you're going to get before distortion kicks in. Do your receiver, speakers and your ears a favor and turn it down. All will be happier in the end, including your wife.

Thrid, please don't post in caps, it looks like you're shouting.

Tour2ma

Originally posted by ATCVenom
Dude - you just need more headroom....

I doubt that is his problem. The 200 wpc Sunfire easily has 6 dB of headroom per ch. And with his crossover set to 160 Hz, I can't see him clipping it, even if you ignore the Sunfire's considerable speaker protection measures.

Comparing volume knob positions may be fun, but it is hardly a universal constant. For one thing posters may or may not have calibrated their rigs with Avia and RS meters. The dB level my Ref 50 displays varies by at least 10 dB to achieve a comfortable casual listening level. And yes, I have balanced the various sources a closely as possible, so variations in the source material is responsible. Cable channels vary, as do DVD’s, CD’s and even vinyl.

amulford,
I agree with the majority that it is likely that you are abusing your speakers and your ears. Your “can’t turn it all the way up” comment and report of pain are two big hints. The former indicates you’ve tried to (and maybe have in the past). And the continuous SPL, short-term pain threshold is in the 115 dB neighborhood. While Dan (mantis) was a tad harsh in the first reply, his concern for your hearing is very real. Nonetheless, a couple questions come to mind.

Have you calibrated your rig?

You did not mention what your source material was during the destruction of the 2000's. Was it 2 ch music? (If I had to guess, it would be that your answer would be "yes" as your CSi has apparently survived.)

What is the nature of the driver damage? Cone separation? Voice coil? Was it the same this time as it has been in the past with the Denon?

Have you ever checked your crossovers for damage? They are not indestructible. Damage may have occurred with the first incident and has been contributing to the repeats.

brettw22

Tour,

If I'm reading his post correctly, he hasn't got the Sunfire yet. He's trying to justify that to his wife by convincing her that he won't be blowing any more speakers with the more capable amp.

Tour2ma

Maybe brett, grant you it is not super clear on a reread, but way it sounds to me when I put the pieces together is that the sun is up is his house...

Originally posted by amulford
[BI WAS DRIVING THIS SET UP WITH A DENON 1803...
I THINK AND I SHOP AROUND AND SPLURGE FOR A SUNFIRE ULTIMATE...
...NOW I HAVE THE POWER....
I SET THE RECEIVER UP... [/B]

amulford,
Do you have the "Ultimate"?

amulford

Yes, the sun is up and running in the house. It is one outstanding piece of equipment.

After reading all of the posts, I must agree the volume levels have to come down. And yes, the source was 2 channel. A CD, YES 90125.

I have decided to use the second zone feature and add some volume producing capability.

You see, I love the clean and clear response, but I like to listen to music loud, no, very loud.

She's gonna have my nads, but it looks like I have to go shopping...

TroyD

I concur that if drivers are repeatedly blowing, that crossover damage is quite likely......

As far as the second zone thing, are you adding more speakers to you system or is this an attempt at biamping in the attempt at getting more volume out of the same pair of speakers?

BDT

amulford

I am thinking of adding a seperate amp to drive more speakers.

How can I tell if there is crossover damage? Would that be the crossovers in the speakers or the receiver? How do I replace them?

Tour2ma

Call Ken or Lauren in Polk CS tomorrow. They'll mail you a troubleshooting guide for your 2000's. Should only invlove simple VOM tests.

I thought it was a 2 ch issue. The 2000's just won't fill the room to the level the whole HT rig will. If you want more SPL from 2 ch wire in a second pair of mains in parallel with your 2000's. The Sunfire can easily handle the resulting 4-ohm load. No extra amp is needed.

Simplest choice for the second pair would be two more 2000's off ebay or wherever.

What about the other questions asked earlier?

amulford

[Have you calibrated your rig?

You did not mention what your source material was during the destruction of the 2000's. Was it 2 ch music? (If I had to guess, it would be that your answer would be "yes" as your CSi has apparently survived.)

What is the nature of the driver damage? Cone separation? Voice coil? Was it the same this time as it has been in the past with the Denon?

Have you ever checked your crossovers for damage? They are not indestructible. Damage may have occurred with the first incident and has been contributing to the repeats. [/B][/QUOTE]


The damage was cone seperation. Yes, this is the second time this has happened, in the same manner.

I have lost the tweeters in the same manner.

I have calibrated rig, but as you guessed, I was using the stereo output. I had borrowed someones meter to set it up, but it looks like its time to buy my own.

The crossover issue has me concerned, I have a sizable investment in the "Ultimate", and I definately don't want to f*ck it up.

Tour2ma

The Sunfire's a tank... I would not worry about it. You can dead short it's output and it will just shutdown and wait for the short to be removed. Wouldn't lie to you, there aren't that many of us Sunfire owners around here. A couple of True Sub owners, but next to nil as far as amps go.

Separated cone... Just asking too much of them. But gives me hope that you're crossovers are OK. I would think if they had a problem they'd more likely go for the VC''s, but maybe not. Still, call Polk CS as mentioned above and get the guide.

The tweeters likely went due to clipping with the old Denon. They are not an issue now, right?

hotwheelman

I have always used the one- o- clock rule, what I mean is that I never go past that point on the volume control. It seems to me that after years of listening and doing mobile d.j. work that most amps and speakers seem to be happy until you pass this point. Anything past that position and damage is going to start to occur even if you can not audibly detect the distortion that has begun to show its ugly head. I guess that would be about 60 % on the volume control. I'm sure that opinions on this may vary but its what I have always adhered to and has never let me down.

Cheers,
Mike

pjdami

I guess that would be about 60 % on the volume control. I'm sure that opinions on this may vary but its what I have always adhered to and has never let me down.

Just to follow-up on what Hotwheelman said and what I said earlier...I too have followed the 60% rule diligently for 18 years with 7 different receivers and 6 different sets of speakers and have yet to blow a fuse in the receiver, blow a tweeter, or a woofer (knocking on wood).

Good rule of thumb to follow (if your speakers / receiver mate well powerwise). Otherwise let you ear be the judge and don't play at distorted levels. Some speakers may start to distort at 11:00 o'clock.

Now what does clipping sound like?? Well I've heard it when I walked in on my roommate in college once and he had my damn H/K at the 3:00 o'clock position jamming Rush's Tom Sawyer and the tweeter on the poor JBL's sounded like a cat after you accidentally step on its tail .... something you never want to hear. Man did I **** at him about that crap. Two weeks later he does it again when I'm not home and blows one of the tweets. I was pissed!!!

Paul

Tour2ma

Same here... 1 o'clock was the normal max; 2 the exceptionally "in a loud mood" point. Of course that was back when the volume knob had a line on it ala my old Yammie C-2.

Best I recall it was about 60% of the rotation, but not 60% the pre's output as I don't beleive they were linear, but rather exponential.

Nowadays, digital readouts and reference levels is all I have to work with... those and my ears...

VR3

This dude has KLH written all over him. Sir, you have the wrong speakers.

wallstreet

Let's see,
1. Crank volume up --> blow speaker
2. Replace speaker
3. Crank volume up --> blow speaker
4. Replace speaker
5. Crank volume up --> blow speaker
6. Replace speaker and stereo
7. Crank volume up --> blow speaker
8.

---

>REPLACE YOUR POLKS <----

Obviously your Polks cannot play at the volume levels you desire.