Comp's MM6501

KaosTsoc

Ok. So, I was wondering if someone might be able to tell the difference between Thermal Power handeling, and RMS handeling?? I have been looking at spec and what not, and see form time to time the thermal power rating, and some have rms.. Could some one please inform me on this..??

Thanks.

KaosTsoc

DSkip wrote: »

So, cancelling on you sunday just means you're gonna get one hell of an audition out of it. I've spent a few hours down in the car the last few nights and I have managed to work out 99% of the timing issues I've been having. I can now literally follow the side-to-side transitions of the music with my eyes. The singer is centered on my dash and doesn't slide to the left on certain notes anymore. The beaming has been toned down greatly, and the only supplement right now is the balance is shifted to the Right by 1/25. Small enough to fix the issue and not throw the rest of the frequencies completely out of whack.

I've never felt so confident in it before. Now just comes dialing in the EQ, which needs only minor adjustments. I would actually consider taking it to a competition with its current sound.

I should be available to meet up again on Tuesday or Thursday, but would prefer Thursday if you are willing to wait until then. That will give me another day or two to dial that EQ in for you. If you're going to hear the SR's, I want you to hear them at their best.

Good deal. Uh. Yeah Thursday is just fine with me. What time are you looking at?? I get off of work now at 6:00 PM, I work in Allen as well. So might take me about an hour or so (Maybe.. I have lead foot syndrom) to get the spot. So, yeah text me with a time, and Im there.

Also Could you please help me out with my post above yours. I dont know if there is a difference or not between the two..??

Thanks.

arun1963

KaosTsoc wrote: »

Ok. So, I was wondering if someone might be able to tell the difference between Thermal Power handeling, and RMS handeling?? I have been looking at spec and what not, and see form time to time the thermal power rating, and some have rms.. Could some one please inform me on this..??

Thanks.

RMS = power that your speaker can handle over extended play time, without burning out the speakers voice coil. This is the maximum power you can safely use on the speaker.

Thermal Power / Peak Power = Power that your speaker can handle for a fraction of a sec any longer and the speaker is toast.

The first one is relevant, the second is just marketing hype.

KaosTsoc

arun1963 wrote: »

RMS = power that your speaker can handle over extended play time, without burning out the speakers voice coil. This is the maximum power you can safely use on the speaker.

Thermal Power / Peak Power = Power that your speaker can handle for a fraction of a sec any longer and the speaker is toast.

The first one is relevant, the second is just marketing hype.

Ah. Got it. I was not sure if they were the same or not. So, not that I know this; Lets take the polk SR 12" DVC sub as an example. The tech spec's sheet says that the thermal power handeling is 700 watts, but the dispcription says that it can handle 700 watts cont. So, Im confused on this. Here is the discription part

http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/sr/index.php?s=sr124dvc

Then take a look at the tech sheet under manuals. Kinda confusing..?? Which one do I got by??

Thanks.

arun1963

Said sub can handle 700 watts RMS.

KaosTsoc

arun1963 wrote: »

Said sub can handle 700 watts RMS.

Ok. So, 700 watt is the true RMS. Cool.


Thanks.

arun1963

Hey guys,

Is the audition happening today? A post with pics is called for.

It seems like this is audition season. I'll probably be meeting a guy this weekend who is running the dls gothia, genesis amps and the p-90rs. A guy who has heard both our cars is setting it up. I've never been in a sound off. Oh and we drive the same make and model.

He has a lot more dsp though. Thats a big difference. I'd love tweaking the p-90. Sounds like fun.

KaosTsoc

DSkip wrote: »

it should be happening. The sister-in-law is coming over so its a legitimate reason for me to duck out of the house. I'll try to snap some pics just for you arun. I will admit up front that my install is very poor right now, complete with velcro supports

LOL. That's great... It is indeed a very good reason.

Thanks.

SivaNevets

my 6501 are starting to break in.. twisted with EQ and fader settings just now, oh man.. the mid bass is unbelievable..the MM840 blends PERFECTLY with the 6501...
i mean, i dont usually enjoy music with hard beat, but my gf does. we played her rap collection haha its really fun. great night.

arun1963

DSkip wrote: »

it should be happening. The sister-in-law is coming over so its a legitimate reason for me to duck out of the house. I'll try to snap some pics just for you arun. I will admit up front that my install is very poor right now, complete with velcro supports

Hey, you're talking to the guy who has his tweet pods stuck on to the dash on double sided tape. Actually it works great. It lets me tweak the angles and lets me swivel the tweets for when my daughter is in the passenger seat. She's gonna be a polkie too some day .

DSkip wrote: »

So the audition went down (no pics, sorry arun. I even mentioned it as we were parting ways). I'll let kaos chime in on how it went.

My hunch is it was a tad bright (by tad I mean a lot). I realized on the way home that it was really bright and noticed I didn't drop the tweets back down where they needed to be. I don't think this prevented him from getting the jist of the SR's though.

I'm glad you'll met up and had fun. At times I've given auditions and later realised something was out, thats life . I'm sure he got the jist.

KaosTsoc

So, the audition was great. I enjoyed every minute of it. Dskip, the tweets for me were not at all to bright. In fact like I said befor, I kind of like my music to be a little brighter than the average person. I did get a chance to see his sub, and yes the Polk SR sub looks really good. The sound incorporation between high's, mids, and sub were perfect. When I went home I was still in aawww. All in all it went great, and made me realize what I am missing. And sadly to say that is quite abit, I missing so much detail it really is a shame. But hey I am an optimistic, and that is why I am on this forum. I am now wanting to take the time to create an audio system that I am going to have for many many years.

Basically trying to replicate what I hear in my headphones, and put that sound in my car. So, if you have ever heard a really good pair of headphones you know what I am talking about. Not only lows, but also the highs, and mids as well. It is a process, and I will get there it just takes some time, thats all.

So, that is my thought, again thank you Dskip for the chance to listen to such beautifully crafted speakers. Oh, and of cours thanks to polk for makeing them......


Thanks

catch22atplay

Sort of the same for me. I compare against my headphones mainly. But my home system is dialed in extremely well. Headphones you don't get a good front stage. So i'm hoping to get it somewhere between the two. I know i can't match my home system. But i'd like to get somewhere near it's quality.

Maybe it's the extreme pickiness in me. But it's so painful listening to 90% or more of other people's car audio systems. Think i've heard 3 systems in 30 years i thought sounded exceptional. Most just want it loud. They don't realize what they're missing. All the parts count. But speakers are really the key factor. After that it's dialing in the speakers with eq, crossovers and TA.

Would have loved to of heard that system. Especially if it's in his truck.

KaosTsoc

catch22atplay wrote: »

Sort of the same for me. I compare against my headphones mainly. But my home system is dialed in extremely well. Headphones you don't get a good front stage. So i'm hoping to get it somewhere between the two. I know i can't match my home system. But i'd like to get somewhere near it's quality.

Maybe it's the extreme pickiness in me. But it's so painful listening to 90% or more of other people's car audio systems. Think i've heard 3 systems in 30 years i thought sounded exceptional. Most just want it loud. They don't realize what they're missing. All the parts count. But speakers are really the key factor. After that it's dialing in the speakers with eq, crossovers and TA.

Would have loved to of heard that system. Especially if it's in his truck.

That is what I am going for. Not only do I want it to be clear, but to get loud as well when I want to be a bass head, but for daily driving the clearness is what I am looking for as well. As for Dskip, he has a 96 camaro which to me made no difference. It was just so clear, that I was like wow that is how my headphones sound, with the exception that the deeper bass was more pronounced than my headphones. Which is just fine, and what I was expecting it to be.

You know that is what I have determind as well. That it is about the speakers, and then dialing in the EQ, crossover, and TA. However at this point I am not quite ready for that, but it is a work in progress, and I am in no rush.

Thanks.

catch22atplay

Ha, preaching to the choir here. All this equipment i got yet nothing installed. I may sell everything and start all over. Well everything except the speakers.

I bought my MM3065's in march 1994. The new system is my replacement for them. They had the perfect combination of sound quality with the ability to play loud. I'd imagine the MM series is still the same way. Best components i ever bought until i got these SR's. But i've still yet to hear the SR's. If i didn't have the SR's i'd be buying the MM's based on past experience with them. An excellent buy for sure.

KaosTsoc

catch22atplay wrote: »

Ha, preaching to the choir here. All this equipment i got yet nothing installed. I may sell everything and start all over. Well everything except the speakers.

I bought my MM3065's in march 1994. The new system is my replacement for them. They had the perfect combination of sound quality with the ability to play loud. I'd imagine the MM series is still the same way. Best components i ever bought until i got these SR's. But i've still yet to hear the SR's. If i didn't have the SR's i'd be buying the MM's based on past experience with them. An excellent buy for sure.

You know that is what Dskip and I where talking about. The SR's that he has are the 5250's, and the hit pretty good, but I thought the mid bass could be a little more, but considering that they are only 5", they did remarkably well, but that all comes down to the tuning as well. He said that for what I am looking for the MM's would be perfect. He had or has (forgot) the MOMO line, and he said that he was happy with them, UNTIL he got the SR's, and that brought him to another level he said. So, you know I loved the clearity of the SR's, but would like a little more punch in the midbass, so the MM's might be the best thing. I am going to go the Fry's in Irving, and see if they have the MM's, and see what their mid bass response sounds like, to get an idea.

Thanks.

KaosTsoc

Ok, so lets change gears here for a second. Can any one of you guys or girls (you never know) help me find a good "active" HU. Sorry to say, but the Pioneer one (cant remember the model) is out of the question. A little to high for my blood. Also not a fan of alpine either, dont like the way they look. Kind of reminds me of gotti jewelry.

I was looking at this HU, but not sure if this wold be good. I am down for any suggestions as well.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22916_Kenwood+KDC-BT945U.html

Also here is the website from kenwood with specs

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Car_Entertainment/In-Dash_CD_n_DVD_Receivers/1-DIN_CD_Receiver/KDC-BT945U


Thanks.

arun1963

The two most important parts of your sound chain are, the hu and the speakers. Assuming of course that you're not running a processor.

Some of the features to look at on a hu:
1. 3 preouts
2. A strong 4-5 volts preout signal
3. Time alignment
4. A min of 5-7 band eq, preferably a parametric eq. The more you have here the better. If you can get one where you can set left and right channels separately, that would be ideal.
5. Ability to set an active 3 way network (sub/mid/tweet)

A hu that gives you all these options, would allow you to really customise the sound to a very high quality level. Of course they would cost a bit more. Here are some options for instance.

http://www.woofersetc.com/p4633/DEHP980BT--Pioneer-Premiere-CD-WMA-MP3-Receiver-with-Builtin-Bluetooth-wireless.htm

http://www.woofersetc.com/p6464/DEHP800PRS--Pioneer-Premier-CD-Receiver-with-High-Quality-Audio.htm

It depends on what quality level you're aiming for. If you just want some tunes while driving around then the Kenny's you picked are fine. Although woofers has the excelon at 299. At least this gives you TA.

http://www.woofersetc.com/p7741/KDCX993--Kenwood-MP3-WMA-USB-CD-Receiver-with-Built-in-Bluetooth.htm

The other thing you can look at is to get the prs units used for around $200.

Mahna Mahna

SivaNevets wrote: »

mm6501 is best known for its mid bass..with sufficient power.
im installing mine tomororw, will let u know

Wouldn't mind listening to them if you have the time.

I'm in the west end (Mississauga).

KaosTsoc

DSkip wrote: »

It's not a horrible Head Unit. The DTA is a bonus that I don't think your current HU has. Recall the difficulty I was having in toning in your speakers on a 3 band parametric EQ (which is the same EQ as the Kenwood has). Of course, your funky wiring didn't help the process much either

Ok. Thanks. Yeah sorry about that, I know that I should have the set up correct, but like I said I did it in a little bit of hurry. So, ok same EQ con, but the DTA is a pro. Ok. got it.


Thanks.

KaosTsoc

arun1963 wrote: »

The two most important parts of your sound chain are, the hu and the speakers. Assuming of course that you're not running a processor.

Some of the features to look at on a hu:
1. 3 preouts
2. A strong 4-5 volts preout signal
3. Time alignment
4. A min of 5-7 band eq, preferably a parametric eq. The more you have here the better. If you can get one where you can set left and right channels separately, that would be ideal.
5. Ability to set an active 3 way network (sub/mid/tweet)

A hu that gives you all these options, would allow you to really customise the sound to a very high quality level. Of course they would cost a bit more. Here are some options for instance.

http://www.woofersetc.com/p4633/DEHP980BT--Pioneer-Premiere-CD-WMA-MP3-Receiver-with-Builtin-Bluetooth-wireless.htm

http://www.woofersetc.com/p6464/DEHP800PRS--Pioneer-Premier-CD-Receiver-with-High-Quality-Audio.htm

It depends on what quality level you're aiming for. If you just want some tunes while driving around then the Kenny's you picked are fine. Although woofers has the excelon at 299. At least this gives you TA.

http://www.woofersetc.com/p7741/KDCX993--Kenwood-MP3-WMA-USB-CD-Receiver-with-Built-in-Bluetooth.htm

The other thing you can look at is to get the prs units used for around $200.

Sweet. Thanks. I like the first one, but the other two not so much. I am only talking about how they look, the style that is. And I understand what you are saying as well. I have looked around to find some. Here is another one that I have selected. Please tell me what you think.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22936_Kenwood+eXcelon+KDC-X794.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle

Are there any other brands out there that have the same things??

Thanks.

KaosTsoc

You know that the more I look at the DEH-P800PRS I think I like it a little more, and has a little more features than the DEH-P980BT, minus the bluetooth. Which I guess I can always get a ear piece for that, and call it even. Plus the 800PRS has the BBE on it, which would mean I could get the CD-UB100, and that way I could still listen to my MP3's as well, as CD. Although the 800PRS is a little more expensive than the 980BT I think it would be more worth it. I also like the fact the the rca connection are not on the back of the unit, and would give me more room behind the HU with out bending my RCA's which is good. Hmmmm...... Decisions decisions.


Thanks.

KaosTsoc

SivaNevets wrote: »

my 6501 are starting to break in.. twisted with EQ and fader settings just now, oh man.. the mid bass is unbelievable..the MM840 blends PERFECTLY with the 6501...
i mean, i dont usually enjoy music with hard beat, but my gf does. we played her rap collection haha its really fun. great night.

Nice to know. Sorry I did not reply befor, got a lot going on. But that is good to know that they are breaking in well, and that they are delivering that kind of response. Which is what I am looking for. Keep us posted as they get broken in even more. In fact post a review on them as well, I would like to hear what you think....


Thanks.

arun1963

I run the p-80rs which is the the same thing as the p-800 and it is a phenomenal hu. I dont run any mp3 media, I don't even listen to FM. One other thing, this HU has probably the worst ipod interface. Other than that it is just an amazing unit.

KaosTsoc

arun1963 wrote: »

I run the p-80rs which is the the same thing as the p-800 and it is a phenomenal hu. I dont run any mp3 media, I don't even listen to FM. One other thing, this HU has probably the worst ipod interface. Other than that it is just an amazing unit.

Cool deal thanks. So, if I get this HU then I would not need an external processor?? I am trying to minimize the amount of eletronics in the truck. What I mean by that is; the more electronics you add, the more chances you have of something going wrong, and you then have to trace all the wires etc etc to find the problem. So, I am trying to keep that as simple as possbile.

Well the good thing is that I dont have to get the adaptor for just the Ipod (which sucks any ways, and I dont really like apple stuff) there is one for USB flash drives. So, that would be the one I would get. Plus alot of the music I have are MP3's, plus this unit has BBE in it as well. Which will help with the compression of mp3's, and should help bring that CD sound back. I just have to save up for it now.

Are there any other brands that you know of that offer these setting as well??

Thanks.

KaosTsoc

DSkip wrote: »

Kaos, you were telling me that the Fry's in Plano didn't have the MM line installed. They do, and they have the SR 5250 installed right next to them. I went out there last night and listened to them both. I think you need to go out there and check them out. They are in the room with all the double-din head units. They don't have a good HU to run them off of as far as tonal controls go, but you can at least listen to them side by side (literally).

For my ears, its no contest. The detail of the SR just obliterates the MM. They also have the SR for $349 at regular price. The MM 6.5 comps were $299, and though I'd go with the SR, the MM does have the punch you were wanting.

Sweet. Thanks for that. I was going to call around today to see who had them. I am so there tonight. Hey quick question? Since I am going to go with a HU that has an active crossover, I dont need to get an external crossover right??

So, if I dont have to get an external crossover, then I could run my front two comp speakers as active?? Provided I get a four channel amp that has at least 600 watts or power. I can run the tweets off the front two channels, and the woofers off the back two correct??

Thanks.

arun1963

All components are sold with a passive xover, which you won't need if you go active. You will need a 4ch am. You would roughly want to match the amps output to the rms watts the speakers can handle.

KaosTsoc

DSkip wrote: »

Remember to bring your own CD. They don't have one worth a damn and you can't get any kind of feeds the way they are set up. You might be able to bring your mp3/ipod player with a usb or 3.5mm jack.

True true. I plan on doing that today if I can. If not then I have tomorrow, and Friday off, along with the weekend. So, I should have plenty of time.

Ok. So now going to back to when we did the audtion. Since you all are saying that I do not need back speakers just the comps in the front. What if I did like 8" in the back door along with the 12's?? You think that would be to much, or would the 8's bring out the mids a little more, and give me a little more depth??

Thanks.

KaosTsoc

arun1963 wrote: »

All components are sold with a passive xover, which you won't need if you go active. You will need a 4ch am. You would roughly want to match the amps output to the rms watts the speakers can handle.

Ok. So, I am correct in my thought then??


Thanks.

KaosTsoc

DSkip wrote: »

Yeah you are right. Just make sure you don't repeat the funky wiring, as that will toast your tweets quickly. Double and triple check the RCA's and speaker wires before you start messing with it. I'd also get a base setup on the active crossover on your head unit and make sure it is set up properly before you power the speakers. Read through the manual and make sure you know how to use it prior.

All stuff I know you know, but doesn't hurt to reiterate.

LOL. That was a learing curve if you will. So, I could do 8's in the back doors to get more mid bass, and leave the comps in the front, and I should be good to go.

Ok, so if I do 8's in the back doors, any brand's come to mind?? Also if I do go this way I would need a 5 channel amp or 6??

Thanks.

arun1963

KaosTsoc wrote: »

Ok. So now going to back to when we did the audtion. Since you all are saying that I do not need back speakers just the comps in the front. What if I did like 8" in the back door along with the 12's?? You think that would be to much, or would the 8's bring out the mids a little more, and give me a little more depth??

Thanks.

You're thinking about the 8" in the rear doors cause you want more bass than what you heard in DSkips car.

To get that, you don't need an extra pair of 8" in the rear. Speakers located behind you will always pull your stage back and cause phasing, cancellation and smearing issues. In a home 2ch setup are the speakers ever placed behind you? The only time you will have speakers behind you are in a HT setup. Here the media is recorded for 5.1 or 7.1 etc. You're listening to audio cd's which are recorded for 2ch's. Left and right. You only need 1 pair of components and a sub for the low end frequencies which your 6.5" mid driver cannot hit.

Now, if you were to listen to DSkips car again, with the sub/mid xover set at 63hz i/o 50hz and with say 80hz set flat, chances are you would not feel like you're lacking for bass. You would lose out on mid bass and midrange clarity, but you would have more bass. Different people like different types of sound, DSkips car is setup for the way he likes to listen. There is no issue if you like your sound with more bass. I'm just saying that you don't have to add additional drivers to get what you want.

Two things to remember with sound,
1. Everything is a trade off. You get something at the cost of something else.
2. Less is always more.