How to fix Engine Ping/Knock

PerfectCreature

Thought I was In club house, mods please move to club house. Thanks.
So, I have spent hours looking online and a couple days talking to mechanics, and they keep leaving me confused.
So, how do I fix this annoying problem.
Here's the back ground. I start my car my engine pings, when I rev it up it pings. It may go away at a certain rev count, but will come back a little quieter after the engine is warmers and has been used awhile.
I use regular unleaded, my spark plugs and wires were changed (unsure of the brand) last year, I just changed my air filter with fram extra guard.
My oil is Penzoil High milage, and my oil filter is Fram Extra guard High milage(I need to change my oil in another 1000 miles are so, but wouldn't mind changing it again if it turns out to be the filter which is what I have read online).
I am wondering if it is the fram filter due to some of the research I have done, but am also curious is all of a sudden my car needs higher octane gas. Which would be odd.
Um, lets see it's been doing this for awhile now, and never really bothered me until I read somewhere that it could be serious.
Since I am planning on eventually selling this to a co-worker (Talked about in another thread) when I find a car that I like, I don't want to leave him with a major problem, so I would like it fixed.Plus, if I decide to keep it...I don't want a major problem either.
It has a 3.1 engine... v6...Um. I can't think of anything else that you would need in order to help. Right now it is a moderate climate, and it has done it through winter, but it was so much worse in the winter, like it was really loud in the winter time. Uh... I travel 50 miles a day.... no dirt roads, not sure if this would matter.
ANyway.
So, who has ideas on how to fix this, or what it may be?
Thanks so much

nooshinjohn

PerfectCreature wrote: »

It has a 3.1 engine... v6...Um. I can't think of anything else that you would need in order to help. Right now it is a moderate climate, and it has done it through winter, but it was so much worse in the winter, like it was really loud in the winter time. Uh... I travel 50 miles a day.... no dirt roads, not sure if this would matter.
ANyway.
So, who has ideas on how to fix this, or what it may be?
Thanks so much

If it is a GM 3.1, time to junk it and get a new car. These motors along with their 3.4L cousins rank among the worst engines in GM history.

Ricardo

Try modifying the crossover, changing cables, maybe adding an external amp might also help.

tonyb

Best advice anyone can give you is to dump that car while it's still running. Once it stops running,it won't be worth much will it? Preferably not to a friend either if you value that friendship. Thats the bottom line to your car woes.

shack

Check your timing, but the pinging/knock is probably caused by carbon deposits on the valves or weak valve springs...either of which could cause the problem. Using a higher octane fuel is the easy fix to stop the knock...but it doesn't fix the problem. However it will probably stop any damage from occuring.

concealer404

It's a 3.1. It'll run like crap for at least another couple years.

Fongolio

It sounds like a sensor is malfunctioning. GM 3.1's had dozens of sensors including electronic spark control, throttle position sensor, oxygen sensor, speed sensor, coolant temperature sensor etc etc. The two that malfunction most often are oxygen sensor and coolant temperature sensor. If either of these is giving an inaccurate reading to the computer your spark timing could be off which causes ping. Is your service engine soon light coming on? If you plan to keep this car for anytime you need to find which sensor is messed up and replace it. Otherwise the above advice applies. Some manuals tell how to tap the computer and read the flashing lights and interpret the codes just with a jumper wire (works on my '89 IROC). Good luck.

Kelvin

PerfectCreature

No engine lights have come on at all. So, I probably will want to sell it then, and beef it up with a full tank of premium before the sale ha!
No, Um, I am getting my transmission oil changed along with the filter replaced, I will ask the mechanic to check on it at the time of the change.
I will also try a different brand of filter since I heard Fram filters ( I am changing my oil in a few weeks) can cause pings and knocks.
Maybe he can figure out what it is.
As for the engine computer, I don't have the equipment to do that.

TNRabbit

Fongolio wrote: »

It sounds like a sensor is malfunctioning. GM 3.1's had dozens of sensors including electronic spark control, throttle position sensor, oxygen sensor, speed sensor, coolant temperature sensor etc etc. The two that malfunction most often are oxygen sensor and coolant temperature sensor. If either of these is giving an inaccurate reading to the computer your spark timing could be off which causes ping. Is your service engine soon light coming on? If you plan to keep this car for anytime you need to find which sensor is messed up and replace it. Otherwise the above advice applies. Some manuals tell how to tap the computer and read the flashing lights and interpret the codes just with a jumper wire (works on my '89 IROC). Good luck.

Kelvin

PerfectCreature wrote: »

No engine lights have come on at all. So, I probably will want to sell it then, and beef it up with a full tank of premium before the sale ha!
No, Um, I am getting my transmission oil changed along with the filter replaced, I will ask the mechanic to check on it at the time of the change.
I will also try a different brand of filter since I heard Fram filters ( I am changing my oil in a few weeks) can cause pings and knocks.
Maybe he can figure out what it is.
As for the engine computer, I don't have the equipment to do that.

I agree with Kelvin 100%. Sounds like a sensor issue or wiring between there & the engine computer if it just started all the sudden.

The thought that an oil filter could cause ping/knock is preposterous. Fram filters suck because they are crappy quality. Mobil One (best!), Napa Gold, and Wix are the best filters I've ever used/dissected.

PerfectCreature

Ok, so i should get this checked out by my mechanic then?

Jstas

PerfectCreature wrote: »

No engine lights have come on at all.

I've worked on enough 3.1's to know that that doesn't matter. The coolant temp sensor can be far enough out of whack to cause a problem yet still be within range to not throw a code and cause a light to be lit. Then again, not all codes will cause a light to be lit.

A ping/knock is not necessarily a death sentence. Sometimes just a change in octane can make the difference. But, the carbon build up that is likely causing the problem to begin with is probably being caused by another problem. Get that problem fixed and your pinging should eventually go away as the carbon build up burns off.

TNRabbit wrote: »

I agree with Kelvin 100%. Sounds like a sensor issue or wiring between there & the engine computer if it just started all the sudden.

The thought that an oil filter could cause ping/knock is preposterous. Fram filters suck because they are crappy quality. Mobil One (best!), Napa Gold, and Wix are the best filters I've ever used/dissected.

That is not preposterous at all. The 3.0L Vulcan from Ford has a pressurized crank case and the oil pan gasket is prone to leaking. If it is leaking, you will get pinging in the combustion cycle and a leak down test will show a drop in compression which will cause your timing to be off.

There are others that have similar problems. It's not common but it's not impossible for a bad seal on something like an oil filter to cause such a problem. With all of the issues that the 3.1L and the earlier 2.8L have I would not doubt that an oil filter issue could be a problem as well.

F1nut

Push the accelerator all the way to the floor and hold it there, your problem will be fixed shortly.

PerfectCreature

Maybe seafoam is the way to go.
Seafoam it, clean out the inside, then add a higher octane gas...change the oil filter and see if that doesn't change it. If it doesn't it probably is a sensor and I should sell it to cut my losses?

Jstas

I agree with seafoam if by seafoam you mean you are going to push it off a cliff, in to the sea and watch it sink beneath the foam while calling the insurance company on your cellphone and claiming the loss.

PerfectCreature

Heh, I wouldn't get much for it they have it quoted at $560 worth.

nooshinjohn

Jstas wrote: »

I agree with seafoam if by seafoam you mean you are going to push it off a cliff, in to the sea and watch it sink beneath the foam while calling the insurance company on your cellphone and claiming the loss.

There is already enough crap in the oceans. The last thing it needs is more oil right now.;):p:D

Jstas

nooshinjohn wrote: »

There is already enough crap in the oceans. The last thing it needs is more oil right now.;):p:D

No, no oil. He said it all leaks out.

pitdogg2

GM makes a fuel injector cleaner that you put into a pressurized container that feeds directly to the injectors. it will clean all carbon deposits from your injectors and valve area. I would ask your guy to try that. My auto dude used it on mine and it made one heck of a difference. cost me 50.00 in the end it was a bad injector but to rule out other possibilities it was the first step. Get away from Fram filters and use the right AC Delco for your car.

nadams

My old Ranger started pinging under load... chased it around for months before I got to the last possible thing it could be.... Replaced the Mass Airflow Sensor, and the pinging went away. A few hundred dollars later after trying Seafoam, plugs, wires, knock sensor, etc.

The Seafoam is still a good idea from time to time. I let my truck ingest it from the brake booster vacuum line, straight out of the can, a little at a time. Makes a helluva smoke show, but it cleans it out good. Just make sure the vacuum line you choose feeds all the cylinders, not just one bank.

joeparaski

Exactly how do you know that it is engine "ping"? I've heard that word used to describe many things, and most were not engine ping at all. You mention that the noise is there at start up and when you rev it, and that it dies down after it warms up. Sounds to me like you are describing an exhaust manifold leak. Engine ping is usually apparent when the engine is under load (such a leaving from a stop light).

Joe

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

Push the accelerator all the way to the floor and hold it there, your problem will be fixed shortly.

My thoughts exactly !!

sucks2beme

This is the reason I'd like to get one of those newer scan tools that do
streaming sensor data to a pc so you can see the marginal stuff.
It's a shame that garages don't have a diagnostic dyno set up, so
they can hook it up under load and see what's going wrong instead
of throwing parts at everything.

DaveHo

Did this start suddenly? Maybe the timing chain/belt jumped a tooth?

-Dave

mewisemagic

F1nut wrote: »

Push the accelerator all the way to the floor and hold it there, your problem will be fixed shortly.

rev limiter will kick in, won't do any damage

PerfectCreature

Well, it is there at start up, it goes on for awhile, I can hear it when I rev it to go up a hill. I hear it when I am cruising through town at around 25 and push on the gas just a little bit to get up this tiny hill we have and you hear it no matter how much you push on the gas, its not that audible at higher speeds maybe due to road, and other sounds.
Its like a pinging/clicking sound. Sometimes it will go into a deeper knocking sound.
I will take it to my shop[ in town tomorrow maybe he can figure out whats wrong with it.
I asked my wife about it she said its been there for awhile...I it was the first time I turned down my music at start up so...maybe that is why I heard it.
Anyway, I'm a little worried about this pinging sound...
Well, a lot worried.

joeparaski

PerfectCreature wrote: »

Well, it is there at start up, it goes on for awhile, I can hear it when I rev it to go up a hill. I hear it when I am cruising through town at around 25 and push on the gas just a little bit to get up this tiny hill we have and you hear it no matter how much you push on the gas, its not that audible at higher speeds maybe due to road, and other sounds.
Its like a pinging/clicking sound. Sometimes it will go into a deeper knocking sound.
I will take it to my shop[ in town tomorrow maybe he can figure out whats wrong with it.
I asked my wife about it she said its been there for awhile...I it was the first time I turned down my music at start up so...maybe that is why I heard it.
Anyway, I'm a little worried about this pinging sound...
Well, a lot worried.

Let me ask you...do you know what a leaking exhaust manifold sounds like?

Joe

shack

If it is the car you talked about selling in an earlier thread...it is 15 years old with 126,000+ miles. From you description it sounds excactly like carbon buildup or weakened valve springs. That can easily be remedied by using a higher octane fuel. Try it and see if it helps. I would do that and spend a buck or two more at each fillup rather than spend much to get it fixed.

PerfectCreature

I had my exuast replaced.
Um, I have listened around and I really dont think thats what it is.
Give me about 10 minutes, I'll post a video of it.
Its uploading Right now. I went from the front to the back.
I started the engine, then moved it around the engine bay, then moved it to the back maybe to hear something, then moved it back to the engine. Its about a minute...please take a look and let me know.
By the way its at night time so it was quieter.

PerfectCreature

<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/hobwe9R-i8s&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/hobwe9R-i8s&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>

There it is. Tell me what you think?

joeparaski

PerfectCreature wrote: »

I had my exuast replaced.
Um, I have listened around and I really dont think thats what it is.
Give me about 10 minutes, I'll post a video of it.
Its uploading Right now. I went from the front to the back.
I started the engine, then moved it around the engine bay, then moved it to the back maybe to hear something, then moved it back to the engine. Its about a minute...please take a look and let me know.
By the way its at night time so it was quieter.

Having the exhaust replaced usually has nothing to do with the exhaust manifolds. I need you to answer this question with a 'yes' or a 'no'....do you know what an exhaust manifold gasket leak sounds like?

I can't recall ever hearing an engine ping at idle after start up, which is why I think that what you are hearing is not the typical definition of an engine that "pings". If this engine actually pings at an idle, I doubt it would have any power to get out of its own way, let alone climb up a gentle hill. That would be one seriously sick engine, and the problem won't go away with liquid additives or premium fuel.

Joe

treitz3

PerfectCreature wrote:

There it is. Tell me what you think?

That's not engine ping and knock. Sounds like metal hitting metal. That can't be good. Most likely comes and goes due to the metal expanding and contracting with temperature variations.

As for what it is? I'm sure someone here will be able to diagnose that sound.