How to fix Engine Ping/Knock

joeparaski

Well I just heard your "video". I wish you would have revved it a little or raise the rpm slightly. It doesn't sound like pinging. What you can do is use a length of hose and put one end to your ear and the other end near different parts of the engine. See if the sound increases around the valve covers (noisy rockers) or if the noise is louder towards the water pump side of the engine (sloppy timing chain). Check close to the exhaust manifolds for a leaky gasket (the noise usually diminishes when the engine warms up due to the expansion of metal). Be careful not to snag any rotating assembly with the end of the hose.

Joe

PerfectCreature

Oh it has power, it has plenty of it. I move when I want to.
I mean, you start it up, and it pings. Then when it idles, it pings, when you rev the engine it pings...
I mean...what does anyone thing it is?
The video is the proof that this is a legitimate issue.
Um, I could do that tomorrow and post a video of it all warmed up. I can rev it a few times as well. You can hear it while in the drivers seat so...I imagine its pretty loud. I mean when I am driving windows up I get the same exact sound. Nothing different. Same sound all the way through....
Now is this just going to be a garden hose or?

joeparaski

Oh, I just remembered something. Those engines sometimes pull the rocker stud out of the cylinder head resulting in the rocker arm getting loose and slapping around. Use the hose "stethoscope" and see if the noise is louder from the from valve cover or the rear. If you can, remove the valve cover and check for loose rockers.

Joe

joeparaski

Gotta hit the sack, I'll check tomorrow if you have any further info.

Joe

PerfectCreature

Ok, well. Hopefully I will have time to take it to a mechanic, since you guys say its something that does not sound good...
I will have to make a trip.
Any other info? I want to be as informed as I can be with this.

disneyjoe7

Not sure as I wish also to had engine rev'd a little, and or placed in gear then rev'd a little. But not what you state a ping or knock, what it sounds like is lifter noise. Can I ask what oil grade you put in that thing 5w-30 I'm thinking. I would try a heavier weight oil next time 10w-30 or even a 10w-40 and or some motor honey.

I don't know what to think about the tail pipe noise, I felt it was a little skip also. Do you have a heavy white smoke when engine is cold?

I'm sure I be corrected if wrong.

disneyjoe7

PerfectCreature wrote: »

Ok, well. Hopefully I will have time to take it to a mechanic, since you guys say its something that does not sound good...
I will have to make a trip.
Any other info? I want to be as informed as I can be with this.

Funny I was thinking nothing serious, not sure if I take that car far from home but...

PerfectCreature

Well, as I said, I put roughly 800-1000 miles on a month.
As for smoke, not that I can remember ever seeing.
5w30 is right.
I am using synthetic SAE Penziol high milage 5w30 oil.
Lifter noise does not sound good at all....
Ugh, any thoughts after the following info?
It is close to needing an oil change in another 500 miles, just replaced the air filter as well.
Um, I can't think of anything else.... I may try premium gas, I am at about half a tank and could fill it up with premium after a visit with a mechanic, and see what it does....

PerfectCreature

I have posted this same problem on another forum I go to...and both have suggested valve or lifter noise...
So, this does not sound very good.
I will post another video on what you guys want...
Make a list of what you want to hear or see, and all of that. How much revs...and such.
I have no RPM gauge so I won't be able to give exacts....

LessisNevermore

Guaranteed to make that noise inaudible......

Jstas

Um, that's not pinging. That's mechanical. It sounds like a valve tap or loose/worn rocker arm or cam follower. Maybe even a collapsed lifter. The sounds go away when the engine heats up not only because of metal expansion but because the oil heats up as well and gets better at filling all the gaps.

It's only going to get worse.

nooshinjohn

I seem to remember posting here a while back that the best thing you can do is scrap this **** and get another car because the 3.1 engines are not worth fixing. The video confirms this. You are hearing lifters... more than one, making noise. As mentioned by another poster, these engines are notorious for their ability to have significant looseness in the valvetrain fron cracked of broken threads. I would not be suprised in the least to find that you have damaged threads inside the valvetrain, and I would be willing to bet you a hundred bucks that there is significant cracking in the head between the valves inside the combustion chamber as well. This cracking is cause by the head warping from heat and pressure over time. Having been around these engines for 12 years now from a service/mechanical perspective, believe me when I tell you that the best use of your 3.1 would be to turn it into a boat anchor.

tonyb

Stop sinking money into that car,sell it to someone you don't know and be done with it.
Thank me later.

disneyjoe7

I have too agree car is old, engine is old, POS.... But I do understand priorities in life, if you're can't buy another car just use heavier weight oil. Some oils IMHO are too light, I would but 10w-40 in that engine. I in fact use heavier weight oil in all my engines over what is called for and have done this for 20 years without issue. I run 10w-30 in 2 engines one calls for 5w-30 and the other 5w-20 I don't like 5w oil in anything. I used 10w-40 in my old Honda which called for 5w-30 since the day I got.

You also my find odd I use 15w-40 diesel oil in my generator and my pressure washer. All oil I use today is Amsoil brand. The Honda I used at the time Pennzoil 10w-40 I wasn't into Syn's back then.

PerfectCreature

Right, only issue I see is what will I tell the guy that hears the knocking at start up?
Just curious. I mean could I just put like, 10w-30 in there fill it up with premium and add an octane booster to temporarily get rid of the knock before the sale?
Thanks.
How much given all the work I have put into it and what is currently wrong with it would you try to sell it for.
In your perspective think of this as your own car, you have put around 3000 in work into it and you paid about 1000 for it. I have all the service records and they have new winter/summer tires, and a killer sound system. Pio HU and Kenwood fronts and backs 3 ways.
I was thinking try around 2000 OBO?
Maybe some poor fish will spring up and take a bite?

Jstas

PerfectCreature wrote: »

add an octane booster to temporarily get rid of the knock before the sale?

It's not pinging. Changing fuel grades or adding octane booster will only waste money and time.

PerfectCreature wrote: »

How much given all the work I have put into it and what is currently wrong with it would you try to sell it for.
In your perspective think of this as your own car, you have put around 3000 in work into it and you paid about 1000 for it. I have all the service records and they have new winter/summer tires, and a killer sound system. Pio HU and Kenwood fronts and backs 3 ways.
I was thinking try around 2000 OBO?
Maybe some poor fish will spring up and take a bite?

You won't get $2K for it. You could maybe get $1200, $1500 if you're lucky.

disneyjoe7

If you're going to sell it, add Engine Honey or a quart of straight 30w, or 20w-50. Don't even waste time or money changing the oil.

nooshinjohn

Donate it to charity and take the write-off at the end of the year.

PerfectCreature

So where can I buy engine honey....and how much to I put in?

PerfectCreature

Okay, so I talked with my town mechanics, they all said that my engine just does that. There really is nothing I can do to fix. They said that in my paryicular engine the 3100. That the pistons and such are set and there is nothing I can really do about them.
They advised stay away from the fram filters, just use a car quest filter or something like that and run just run regular 5-30 oil. He said the synthetic may be to thin for my car.
He also said that adding some engine restore to this oil change may help the problem.
He just told be to bassially run it. There really is no fix for it. He said I should get another 20-30k miles on it before it really craps out on me.
By then I should have enough money to buy a really nice car.
Hopefully. In the mean time I may put it for sale for like 2k and maybe someone will buy it in that time...who knows.
I may even try the seafoam stuff as well.
Um... yeah they agreed it was valve noise. Both mechanics also said that they have dealt with a bunch of 3.1 engines and the majority of them have made that noise.
So. The check list is this.
1 Change Oil filter to anything but Fram.
2 Use some engine restore. Maybe put some Mystery Oil in my gas, or even that Techron Stuff....
3 Get my tranny oil+ Filter changed as planned (he said that may help it as well)
4 Get away from synthetic oil.
5 maybe buy a can of seafoam and use that.
Um...anyone else have some ideas?
Thanks.
If after all of that it does not go away. I will have to assume it is a larger issue and will have to go from there.
I will be doing all of this tomorrow (Maybe not the seafoam though) And will report back with my finding late afternoon.

concealer404

I wouldn't do the seafoam. The last thing you want is it dislodging a big chunk of carbon and REALLY **** things up.

nooshinjohn

PerfectCreature wrote: »

3 Get my tranny oil+ Filter changed as planned (he said that may help it as well)

This will do absolutely nothing to fix the noise in the engine. Any mechanic that said this knows nothing about which he speaks.

concealer404

Be sure to top off your blinker fluid. Check those muffler bearings, too.

PerfectCreature

I am not a complete car idiot. I know there is no thing as a blinker fluid or a muffler belt....
He said that my tranny oil was getting black and was loosing the cherry tint and it may help with some other problems i had mentioned.
It just the usual maintenance stuff. He said changing the fluid out and the filter will help me get the most out of my tranny.
I was referring to the engine life. Thats what it would help.

AsSiMiLaTeD

nooshinjohn wrote: »

This will do absolutely nothing to fix the noise in the engine. Any mechanic that said this knows nothing about which he speaks.

+1, that guy sounds like a moron.

I love how you're going to try to sell the car and pass your problems off to someone else, kinda seems like an **** move if you ask me, especially since you're talking about trying to cover it up somehow. People like you are precisely the reason I don't buy used cars...

PerfectCreature

I need the car to much, I wouldn't get what I put into it even if I did sell it so I will most likly keep the car, in the event of selling it I would make sure it passed inspection, and have a mechanic do a write up on the condition of the vehicle itself. SO that knocking will most likely be included. I will take it to a third mechanic and see if he says that it's nothing serious. The both said I should change the filter out and see if that works, even adding engine restore may alleviate it. If that doesn't work they told me to bring it back and they will inspect the motor and see what is really causing the problem. I will end up selling it to a dealer, maybe trading off. He can fix it. I don't do private sales much. I mean it is a well taken car of car....aside from the engine noise. Which seemed to have gone away today I drove it to the store and it didn't ping or knock or make any noise...so that really makes me wonder. It is really warm out and the sun has been beating on it, I heard it when I started but it died down...
I did find out how to rev the motor without using the gas though. Funny thing I was just wondering what the part was last night...

nooshinjohn

PerfectCreature wrote: »

He said that my tranny oil was getting black and was loosing the cherry tint and it may help with some other problems i had mentioned.
It just the usual maintenance stuff. He said changing the fluid out and the filter will help me get the most out of my tranny.

Changing transmission fluid at this point is to invite trouble. Transmission fluid is a detergent that will break down deposits inside. If the fluid is as you say, the new stuff will break down things that are better left alone at this point. The transmission will fail in short order after the new fluid starts pumping through it. I have seen it too many times to count.

PerfectCreature

Yeah, It might. I could always ask the mechanic who's doing it if it would be a good idea before he does it....
I wasn;t able to ask him about my problem since he was out of town today but...Maybe he will give me some different insight on the issue.
I suppose the engine restore would probably clean it all out as well?

Jstas

Here you go, try this. It should help the situation.

AsSiMiLaTeD

PerfectCreature wrote: »

Yeah, It might. I could always ask the mechanic who's doing it if it would be a good idea before he does it....
I wasn;t able to ask him about my problem since he was out of town today but...Maybe he will give me some different insight on the issue.
I suppose the engine restore would probably clean it all out as well?

If you put something into your engine and it cleans out your transmission then you've got a serious problem.

I'm not a mechanic by any stretch, but I'm pretty sure fluids in those two devices are NOT supposed to mix.

Why are you changing the tranny fluid again? If it's because of a problem then lets hear about it, but if it's just time, I really wouldn't mess with it.