PSW505 Subwoofer bottoming out?

TECHNOKID

I'll look into getting a tripod, maybe I can snag one for $15. I'm not cheap, don't let my budget trick you, I just have other interests as well.

If you can afford it fine however, far from me to think you are cheap quite the opposite I think you are moving intelligently by knowing your budget and trying to optimize your system while staying within your budget There are lots of time to upgrade your system as your budget can eventually support it :cool: Remember, the only time one starts from the top is when digging a hole :eek:


Seems like you are on the right track
Cheers!
TK

kuntasensei

xxmastermushxx wrote: »

So, I should keep the LPF for LFE at 150Hz?

Or 120Hz if that option is available, but I doubt you'll hear a difference between the two. That setting only matters if you start going BELOW 120Hz, because then you're cutting stuff out of the LFE channel that you're meant to hear, however minor.

xxmastermushxx wrote: »

I have the subwoofer on LFE unfiltered right now, it also has a filtered in. What dial do you mean? The crossover, or the gain? I have the crossover at maximum too.

If you're plugged into the LFE unfiltered, no worries. Crossover dial on the sub does nothing if you're plugged into the LFE unfiltered port.

xxmastermushxx

kuntasensei wrote: »

Or 120Hz if that option is available, but I doubt you'll hear a difference between the two. That setting only matters if you start going BELOW 120Hz, because then you're cutting stuff out of the LFE channel that you're meant to hear, however minor.



If you're plugged into the LFE unfiltered, no worries. Crossover dial on the sub does nothing if you're plugged into the LFE unfiltered port.

I guess I'll just let Audyssey decide that then, if 150Hz is what it wants, so be it.

Yeah, I knew the LFE unfiltered disabled crossover.

I'll keep you posted.

xxmastermushxx

Do you think this microphone tripod would do the trick?
http://www.amazon.com/Stage-Stands-7701B-Tripod-Microphone/dp/B000978D58/ref=pd_cp_MI_2

What should I be looking for in a tripod? I could use a little direction.

Thanks

TECHNOKID

xxmastermushxx wrote: »

Do you think this microphone tripod would do the trick?
http://www.amazon.com/Stage-Stands-7701B-Tripod-Microphone/dp/B000978D58/ref=pd_cp_MI_2

What should I be looking for in a tripod? I could use a little direction.

Thanks

This is a boom stand for a proffessional type microphone (SM58, 57 etc...). If the Audissey is like the YAPO, this stand is useless to you since the screw on piece on this stand is much larger than what is on the YAPO or Audissey home calibration mike. What you want for stand is some like camera stand.

Here is some for you: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/faq.html

Here's some more: http://www.wikibestpractices.com/index.php?title=Audyssey

http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-amplifiers-receivers/1267512-audyssey-mic-stand.html

Cheers!
TK

xxmastermushxx

TECHNOKID wrote: »

This is a boom stand for a proffessional type microphone (SM58, 57 etc...). If the Audissey is like the YAPO, this stand is useless to you since the screw on piece on this stand is much larger than what is on the YAPO or Audissey home calibration mike. What you want for stand is some like camera stand.

Here is some for you: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/faq.html

Here's some more: http://www.wikibestpractices.com/index.php?title=Audyssey

http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-amplifiers-receivers/1267512-audyssey-mic-stand.html

Cheers!
TK

Here, hows this look? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-50-INCH-PROFESSIONAL-TRIPOD-CAMERA-CAMCORER-/190389464836?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5418af04
Do you think its thickness could mess up the higher frequencies? I asked the seller if the handle could be removed, seeing how big it is.

TECHNOKID

xxmastermushxx wrote: »

Here, hows this look? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-50-INCH-PROFESSIONAL-TRIPOD-CAMERA-CAMCORER-/190389464836?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5418af04
Do you think its thickness could mess up the higher frequencies? I asked the seller if the handle could be removed, seeing how big it is.

The legg adjustment would be perfect (16.5'' to 50'') as it would allow you to adjust to hear level. Now, look at the screw hole on your mic to see if it is the proper size?? If the size is good, then when you screw the mic on it the pin should go down when not required and you would simply keep the handle rearward away from the speaker wave. The price is definitely right :cool: However, you should wait for more Polkies input during the day tomorrow to make sure it good for the purpose. Yet, they might provide you with other tripod which are better suited for your purpose.

Good night!
TK

xxmastermushxx

TECHNOKID wrote: »

The legg adjustment would be perfect (16.5'' to 50'') as it would allow you to adjust to hear level. Now, look at the screw hole on your mic to see if it is the proper size?? If the size is good, then when you screw the mic on it the pin should go down when not required and you would simply keep the handle rearward away from the speaker wave. The price is definitely right :cool: However, you should wait for more Polkies input during the day tomorrow to make sure it good for the purpose. Yet, they might provide you with other tripod which are better suited for your purpose.

Good night!
TK

Thanks for the input, good night.

I'll be trying out different areas for better bass response tomorrow, I'll keep you guys posted.

kuntasensei

xxmastermushxx wrote: »

I guess I'll just let Audyssey decide that then, if 150Hz is what it wants, so be it.

Yeah, I knew the LFE unfiltered disabled crossover.

I'll keep you posted.

Audyssey doesn't set the LPF of LFE, since there's no way to test for it. That setting is only included to maintain compatibility with subwoofers designed to THX specs that aren't meant for above-80Hz playback.

As far as the tripod goes... any tripod that will put the mic at the level of your ears will do. Then, so long as you are OUT OF THE ROOM when Audyssey's doing its test tones, you should be good to go.

mystik610

xxmastermushxx wrote: »

The DQ-10's (front speakers) can go down to 40Hz, but are crossed over at 100Hz to prevent distortion.

Audyssey has the fronts set at 40Hz crossover, the center at 80hz, and the surrounds at 110Hz. Manuel setup says, LPF for LFE: 150Hz, should I set that at 80Hz? That sounds right to me, but then I'm not crystal clear about speaker crossovers.

I would bring the LPF down to 80hz to match your fronts. There isn’t a whole lot of material in the surrounds below 120hz, so the fact that they’re crossed over higher than your LPF shouldn’t be a big deal.

xxmastermushxx wrote: »

Your wife has good choice; however, it seems as though your giving up acoustical perfection for your wife's upholstery needs.

Must be tough, you just need to build a room for a theater...or buy your wife some noise canceling headphones. :rolleyes:

There are two things that ultimately limit our enjoyment of this hobby....Financial limitations and WAF (wife acceptance factor).

One day you'll finish school, start a career, and all but the extremely high end gear will reasonably be within your reach....somewhere around that time you'll probably get married, and your future wife will learn to hate the look of big obtrusive speakers, components, and cabling.

There isn't a whole lot that I didn't get out of my system prior to getting married...my old regret is not stocking up on a ridiculous amount of audio gear that she would have 'inherited' when we got married

The ironic thing is after seeing a family friend's home theater, she actually wants a dedicated home theater room, but our current house doesn't have a room that could reasonably serve as one.

kuntasensei

mystik610 wrote: »

I would bring the LPF down to 80hz to match your fronts. There isn’t a whole lot of material in the surrounds below 120hz, so the fact that they’re crossed over higher than your LPF shouldn’t be a big deal.

Note: There is NO REASON to lower the LPF of LFE to 80Hz unless you just like throwing out sound in the LFE channel. LPF of LFE has absolutely nothing to do with the redirected bass from the surrounds or any other channel - it only operates on the LFE channel itself BEFORE the managed bass is summed with LFE to be sent to the subwoofer. The filtering of the bass from the other channels is what the crossovers themselves are for (and the LPF on the subwoofer itself is irrelevant because he's running on the unfiltered LFE input as he should). LPF of LFE should always be set to 120Hz or higher to allow the full bandwidth of the LFE channel to be passed to the subwoofer.

mystik610

kuntasensei wrote: »

Note: There is NO REASON to lower the LPF of LFE to 80Hz unless you just like throwing out sound in the LFE channel. LPF of LFE has absolutely nothing to do with the redirected bass from the surrounds or any other channel - it only operates on the LFE channel itself BEFORE the managed bass is summed with LFE to be sent to the subwoofer. The filtering of the bass from the other channels is what the crossovers themselves are for (and the LPF on the subwoofer itself is irrelevant because he's running on the unfiltered LFE input as he should). LPF of LFE should always be set to 120Hz or higher to allow the full bandwidth of the LFE channel to be passed to the subwoofer.

I only mentioned moving it down to 80hz so he has more placement options...particularly nearfield placement for extra head-room.

Anything frequencies above 80hz sent to the sub will be localizable and will ruin the sound-stage with anything but a front-field placement. it will start sending things like deep male voices to the subwoofer....if you're using anything but a front-field placement for the sub (I use a nearfield placement in my room), its acoustically inaccurate for the more directional, upper bass frequencies to be played through a sub. So its folly to say that you should ALWAYS use a 120hz LPF for the LFE channel.

Never did I saw that the LPF will redirect anything from the surrounds to the sub...I know the difference between a cross-over and an LPF. With regards to the front speakers, however, you typically don't want overlap between the LPF on the LFE channel and the cross-overs for the mains...its wasted dynamic range for your main speakers, and can cause cancellation issues. It will also task your sub to handle more material and will take away from the dynamic range of your sub too...ie your sub will be tasked to output a male voice and an explosion at the same time....or it will be tasked to voice the hard hits of a kick drum at the same time as the delicate strums of a bass guitar for music. Less than ideal.

You also don't want a gap between the cross-over on your mains and the LPF on your sub either...obviously this will leave certain frequencies out of the sound-stage. Its less important for the surrounds, however, as very little mid or upper bass frequencies are sent to the surrounds. That's the point I was making.

kuntasensei

You're misunderstanding me... LPF of LFE only filters the LFE channel, not the whole subwoofer output. LFE does not equal SUBWOOFER OUTPUT. No voices are EVER placed in the LFE channel. You should ALWAYS use a 120Hz LPF for the LFE channel or you are throwing out the harmonics above 80Hz that give sounds placed in the LFE channel their tone. You don't have to worry about directional sounds being reproduced by the LFE channel because the mixers do not place directional audio in the LFE channel anyway. If you set LPF of LFE to anything other than 120Hz or higher, you are setting it WRONG. Doing so throws that sound out completely - it is not redirected to the other channels.

There are no cancellation issues because the same audio is not placed in the LFE channel and the mains at the same time per existing mixing standards regarding bass reproduction from multiple point sources in a theatrical and home environment.

Important note: This is a VERY minor issue and 90% of people will not hear a difference one way or the other. Mixers do not typically place sounds above 80Hz in the LFE channel due to existing mixing standards. However, the sounds they DO place in the LFE channel typically have harmonics above 80Hz... and the harmonics are what lend deep bass its perceived tone. By putting a LPF on the LFE channel at all, you are throwing those harmonics away completely. These harmonics do not contain enough energy to be significant as far as your sub's performance goes. They are, however, important to the accurate reproduction of what the mixer intended you to hear.

There is no gap between the crossover on the mains and the LPF of LFE. As he is using the unfiltered input of his sub, there's no LPF on the sub itself - the AVR is handling all the filtering. Here's the way it works:

For this example, we'll say that mains are at 40Hz crossover, center at 80Hz, surrounds at 120Hz, LPF of LFE at 120Hz. The AVR takes each of these - the bass approaching 40Hz from the mains, approaching 80Hz from the center, approaching 120Hz from the surrounds, and the full bandwidth of the LFE channel (which is brickwall filtered at 120Hz as a standard) - sums them together digitally with a 10dBfs boost to the LFE channel per Dolby/DTS specs (which is why reference level is 105dB peak from the main channels and 115dB from the LFE channel), and that's what is output to the subwoofer line out. Now, in this same configuration, changing LPF of LFE to 80Hz does not affect any of the other channels... just LFE. Your subwoofer output would then equal: bass approaching 40Hz from the mains, 80Hz from the center, 120Hz from the surrounds, and only the bass up to 80Hz from the LFE channel. In no way does this control affect voices or sounds from the other channels, whether you place the sub right next to you or across the room.

I hope you don't think I'm being a stickler about this, but the LFE channel is very misunderstood and too many people equate "LFE" with "subwoofer" when the two are very different entities.

Another important point that MUST be stressed: The crossover point is typically the -3dB point as the sound transitions from speaker to sub. It is not a hard number above which no sound is reproduced by the subwoofer. Even with an 80Hz crossover on all channels, sound above 80Hz is sent to your subwoofer, albeit at reduced levels so that your brain still perceives the directional cue as coming from the intended channel. If you filter the subwoofer itself in the same range, you're cascading the two filters and causing a gap in the frequency response across the crossover range.

kuntasensei

Y'know, in hindsight, I probably could have just quoted Prof. Chris Kyriakakis of Audyssey from his blog:
"The LPF setting for the LFE channel should always be 120 Hz. This is not a crossover, but a filter that applies only to the separate LFE track found in 5.1 content."

"The LFE LPF is an entirely different thing. It's not a crossover (because it doesn't come with a corresponding HPF). It is a filter that is applied only to the separate LFE track that is found in surround content. This low frequency track is added in the mix by the people producing the content. It is limited to 120 Hz and below and so the LPF LFE should always be set to 120 Hz. "

TECHNOKID

TECHNOKID wrote: »

This is a boom stand for a proffessional type microphone (SM58, 57 etc...). If the Audissey is like the YAPO, this stand is useless to you since the screw on piece on this stand is much larger than what is on the YAPO or Audissey home calibration mike. What you want for stand is some like camera stand.

Here is some for you: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/faq.html

Here's some more: http://www.wikibestpractices.com/index.php?title=Audyssey

http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-amplifiers-receivers/1267512-audyssey-mic-stand.html

Cheers!
TK

My subwoofer is physically closer than the distance reported by MultEQ. Why?
Many powered subwoofers do not provide the capability to defeat the built-in low-pass filter. These filters, by their nature, introduce additional delay in the signal and MultEQ finds that and reports it. The optimum solution is to turn the filters off (often called "LFE mode" in subwoofers). If that is not possible, set the low pass frequency to the highest possible setting and leave the distance reported as is. MultEQ will compensate for the added delay and time align the subwoofer to the satellite channels so that the optimum blend is achieved.

So either your sub provides for turning off the filter or set to the highest (kuntasensei is just about right). Seems like you were experiencing the delay when you mentioned your receiver said your sub was at 9' when actually only a couple feet from the wall

xxmastermushxx wrote: »

Here, hows this look? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-50-INCH-PROFESSIONAL-TRIPOD-CAMERA-CAMCORER-/190389464836?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5418af04
Do you think its thickness could mess up the higher frequencies? I asked the seller if the handle could be removed, seeing how big it is.

Have you ordered your mic (camera) stand yet

You're getting there :cool:

Cheers!
TK

kuntasensei

TECHNOKID wrote: »

So either your sub provides for turning off the filter or set to the highest (kuntasensei is just about right). Seems like you were experiencing the delay when you mentioned your receiver said your sub was at 9' when actually only a couple feet from the wall

He's using the unfiltered input on the sub itself, which bypasses the filter dial on the sub completely (and that is the preferable way to handle that, since it lets the AVR do all filtering at a digital level where group delay is less of an issue - digital crossovers mimic the behavior of analog Linkwitz-Riley crossovers). Any distance/delay issue is not because of that. Because of the complex interaction between the distance/delay setting and the subwoofer's phase correlation with the mains, there are any number of things that can be causing a problem with the distance detection. My previous advice about keeping a rear-ported sub at least 3" from a wall stems from that. If the sub is ported out toward a large flat flexible surface like drywall, the wall itself can act as a passive radiator... and in some rooms can create sound that overpowers the direct sound from the woofer itself, causing the Audyssey mic to incorrectly read the radiated sound as the first impulse.

xxmastermushxx

Have you ordered your mic (camera) stand yet

Not yet, I need to deposit a check into my bank, and let my resources recuperate. I just bought Red Dead Redemption (video game) for $43, so I'm going to wait a little to see how my funds are doing.

Seems like there's been quite a heated argument over LPF for LFE.

I'm going to try a near-field placement of my sub, seeing how kuntasensei has made his point, I'll just let Audyssey deal with the LPF for LFE.

kuntasensei

Again, Audyssey doesn't deal with the LPF of LFE. It doesn't change it at all because there's no way to detect for it and it's only there for THX compatibility. Fortunately, your AVR defaults to a good setting. Onkyos, on the other hand, default to the THX setting of 80Hz and must be changed to 120Hz manually.

xxmastermushxx

Again, Audyssey doesn't deal with the LPF of LFE. It doesn't change it at all because there's no way to detect for it and it's only there for THX compatibility. Fortunately, your AVR defaults to a good setting. Onkyos, on the other hand, default to the THX setting of 80Hz and must be changed to 120Hz manually.

OK, now I understand. Took me a while, sorry.

I'm trying to place the SW in that little nook between the couch and the blue chair. I'm keeping it more than 3" from the back of the table. What sound(s) should I look for in-case it acts up?

xxmastermushxx

Looking at your mic placements: Keep positions 1-3 and 5 (but do that as position 4). For positions 5 and 6, place the mic about a foot or so BEHIND the couch, diagonally to either side of your main listening position. For seating placements near walls, it's best to keep the mic where your ears would be and forward... but for seating with some open space behind you, doing 1 or 2 mic placements there will not only give it a better idea of the bass in your general listening area, it will also help better EQ those surrounds where you have them.

What do you mean "diagonally to either side of your main listening position"?
I'm having a hard time picturing that. Could I just put the last two BEHIND the couch around the points that position 1-2 would be?

kuntasensei

Yeah, that's kinda' what I meant.

xxmastermushxx

kuntasensei wrote: »

Yeah, that's kinda' what I meant.

OK, good.

xxmastermushxx

Great news kuntasensei, I just finished this calibration using the new mic positions. The surrounds have now been set at 100Hz, from 110Hz to 100Hz. I'm very pleased, great suggestion. I'll have to do it again when I get the tripod, and I'm looking forward to that.

Audyssey set the fronts at 40Hz again, I guess I'll just set them at 80Hz.

kuntasensei

Did it help with the original subwoofer problem though?

xxmastermushxx

kuntasensei wrote: »

Did it help with the original subwoofer problem though?

Better, I believe. The scene in LOTR at 3:49 when the ring drops was pretty good. There was a SLIGHT wu-wump, but was overall excellent. I turned off DynamicEQ which played a HUGE part in the bottoming out. I'm not done mind you, I still have to get a mic tripod, and a longer LFE cable to position the sub near-field. When that's all done, then I'll be satisfied, and I doubt the problem will be present.

Question: If the mic is an inch or two ABOVE ear level when calibrating, would that make a audible difference?

TECHNOKID

The closer to hear level the better however, an inch or two isn't that critical. Once you get the tripod you should be able to adjust the mic pretty much bang on (when looking at the tripod pic, there seem to be be pretty good level adjustment).

Cheers!
TK

mystik610

Did you ever get the High Pass Filter?

That should still give you a little more head-room with the subwoofer gain, and will let you enjoy the other benefits of Audyssey (and there are a lot) without hearing the sub bottom out.

kuntasensei

The mic position being at ear level is important for the first 3 positions. For the remaining positions, it can actually be a good thing to vary the height a little. A good way to do them in front of the listening position is to sit in your main seat and place the mic so that it sits in your line of sight to the speaker.

Sounds like you're well on your way to wringing the most out of the sub you have.

mystik610

kuntasensei wrote: »

You're misunderstanding me... LPF of LFE only filters the LFE channel, not the whole subwoofer output. LFE does not equal SUBWOOFER OUTPUT. No voices are EVER placed in the LFE channel. You should ALWAYS use a 120Hz LPF for the LFE channel or you are throwing out the harmonics above 80Hz that give sounds placed in the LFE channel their tone. You don't have to worry about directional sounds being reproduced by the LFE channel because the mixers do not place directional audio in the LFE channel anyway. If you set LPF of LFE to anything other than 120Hz or higher, you are setting it WRONG. Doing so throws that sound out completely - it is not redirected to the other channels.

There are no cancellation issues because the same audio is not placed in the LFE channel and the mains at the same time per existing mixing standards regarding bass reproduction from multiple point sources in a theatrical and home environment.

Important note: This is a VERY minor issue and 90% of people will not hear a difference one way or the other. Mixers do not typically place sounds above 80Hz in the LFE channel due to existing mixing standards. However, the sounds they DO place in the LFE channel typically have harmonics above 80Hz... and the harmonics are what lend deep bass its perceived tone. By putting a LPF on the LFE channel at all, you are throwing those harmonics away completely. These harmonics do not contain enough energy to be significant as far as your sub's performance goes. They are, however, important to the accurate reproduction of what the mixer intended you to hear.

There is no gap between the crossover on the mains and the LPF of LFE. As he is using the unfiltered input of his sub, there's no LPF on the sub itself - the AVR is handling all the filtering. Here's the way it works:

For this example, we'll say that mains are at 40Hz crossover, center at 80Hz, surrounds at 120Hz, LPF of LFE at 120Hz. The AVR takes each of these - the bass approaching 40Hz from the mains, approaching 80Hz from the center, approaching 120Hz from the surrounds, and the full bandwidth of the LFE channel (which is brickwall filtered at 120Hz as a standard) - sums them together digitally with a 10dBfs boost to the LFE channel per Dolby/DTS specs (which is why reference level is 105dB peak from the main channels and 115dB from the LFE channel), and that's what is output to the subwoofer line out. Now, in this same configuration, changing LPF of LFE to 80Hz does not affect any of the other channels... just LFE. Your subwoofer output would then equal: bass approaching 40Hz from the mains, 80Hz from the center, 120Hz from the surrounds, and only the bass up to 80Hz from the LFE channel. In no way does this control affect voices or sounds from the other channels, whether you place the sub right next to you or across the room.

I hope you don't think I'm being a stickler about this, but the LFE channel is very misunderstood and too many people equate "LFE" with "subwoofer" when the two are very different entities.

Another important point that MUST be stressed: The crossover point is typically the -3dB point as the sound transitions from speaker to sub. It is not a hard number above which no sound is reproduced by the subwoofer. Even with an 80Hz crossover on all channels, sound above 80Hz is sent to your subwoofer, albeit at reduced levels so that your brain still perceives the directional cue as coming from the intended channel. If you filter the subwoofer itself in the same range, you're cascading the two filters and causing a gap in the frequency response across the crossover range.

Yes but with a 120hz crossover from the speakers coupled with a 120hz LPF filter for the LFE channel, directional upper-bass frequencies from the full-band front channel signals (80hz up to the filter at 120hz) will be crossed over to the LFE channel, combined with the LFE track, and played through the sub.

This is where localization issues occurs, and how male voices can end up playing through the sub. Even if voices aren't recorded to the LFE track, if the mains are crossed-over too high, deep voices will be routed to the LFE channel, and with a high enough LPF of LFE, will be played through the sub.

For most applications, this isn't an issue....but the further away the sub is from the mains, the more sensitive it is to localization even below 80hz due to room response, resonances, and what-not.

As a general rule of thumb, set the LPF of LFE and corresponding cross-over for the mains as high as you can without creating localization issues....then let your ears decide. In most applications, unless you're using small satellite speakers, the smaller, lighter, and faster mid-bass drivers/woofers in your mains can articulate the upper-bass regions better than a heavy subwoofer cone can....particularly subwoofers that are tuned to play loudly in the subsonic frequencies.

In the end, the OP's ears will dictate what sounds best, and there are no definite right ways to do things. In an acoustically perfect world, all the basic audio principles followed to the tee will produce the best results....however, few of us have acoustically proper rooms...most of us (myself included) don't have acoustically proper gear for our applications. What sounds best is often a series of compromises and a lot of subjectivity.

kuntasensei

mystik610 wrote: »

Yes but with a 120hz crossover from the speakers coupled with a 120hz LPF filter for the LFE channel, directional upper-bass frequencies from the full-band front channel signals (80hz up to the filter at 120hz) will be crossed over to the LFE channel, combined with the LFE track, and played through the sub.

The LPF for the LFE channel is irrelevant... because it doesn't affect the sound from the other channels. Nothing is EVER crossed over to the LFE channel - it is crossed over to the subwoofer output, which the LFE channel's output is added to. Again, subwoofer output does NOT equal LFE. Now, if you set a crossover on any of the other channels above 80Hz, yes... localization is an issue. But setting the LPF of LFE to 80Hz doesn't solve that issue, because it doesn't affect the redirected bass from the other channels. All the LPF of LFE filters is the discrete LFE channel in the 5.1 bitstream. It does NOT act on bass from the other channels, nor does it act on the subwoofer output as a whole. If you set your mains at 120Hz and LPF of LFE at 80Hz, the 120Hz sound from the mains still reaches the subwoofer intact and changing LPF of LFE won't affect it one bit.

mystik610 wrote: »

This is where localization issues occurs, and how male voices can end up playing through the sub. Even if voices aren't recorded to the LFE track, if the mains are crossed-over too high, deep voices will be routed to the LFE channel, and with a high enough LPF of LFE, will be played through the sub.

What you're saying is fundamentally wrong. Nothing is EVER routed to the LFE channel but the LFE channel itself. If the mains are crossed over too high, then yes... voices can end up in the subwoofer. But NOT in the LFE track, which is a separate entity altogether, and is a discrete channel in the digital bitstream. And again, LPF of LFE has ZERO effect on bass redirected from the other channels - just the LFE channel BEFORE bass from the other channels is summed with it to create the subwoofer output.

mystik610 wrote: »

As a general rule of thumb, set the LPF of LFE and corresponding cross-over for the mains as high as you can without creating localization issues....then let your ears decide.

LPF of LFE has ONE correct setting - 120Hz or higher. Anything else throws out sound from the LFE channel, which is brickwall filtered at 120Hz during encoding. I agree that the crossovers for the other channels should not be set higher than 80Hz to avoid localization, but that has ZERO to do with the LPF of LFE, since it doesn't affect the bass from the other channels AT ALL. The OP doesn't have a choice but to have his surrounds at 120Hz, but since mixers don't typically place deep bass in the surrounds, he's probably okay.

Not trying to be a jerk here... but too many people make this fundamental error in their thinking, and what I'm saying here is FACT, not opinion. LPF of LFE does not low-pass the entire subwoofer output, so it has no effect on voices, no effect on redirected bass from the other channels, no effect on anything other than audio contained in the .1 channel of digital mixes.