Will polk ever bring out high end speakers
Comments
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Will they be tailored for todays high def sound formats like blurayHow does one tailor a speaker to a format?
That sounds like the "digital ready" BS that was flying around as a marketing scheme years ago. -
nooshinjohn wrote: »How is it that Polk Audio builds speakers for the average Joe, but average Joe knows nothing about them. How did Polk get so big building speakers if they market to AJ and AJ has never heard of them?;):p
They build speakers for the average Joe, but that doesn't mean that every single one of the average Joe's is in the market for speakers. Your typical average Joe has never heard of Polk.;)Polk is practically a household name when it comes to speakers precisely because of the SDA's. Best Buy, CC, Fry's and other big box stores came into play because Polk recognized the shift away from Mom&Pop stores and adapted and grew exponentially as a result. Many that didn't make the shift went under all together.
Household name? Hardly.
Maybe amongst some people, but I can assure you that Polk is definitely not a household name amongst any of the people I know. As far as all of my personal, local friends go...I've yet to run into a single one that has any idea what an SDA is. Most of them have never even heard of Polk Audio period. The only speaker company that's really a household name is Bose.
I'd guess that age differences have a lot to do with it too. Point is, one of the markets that Polk would have to appeal to with these new "SDA's" would be the younger crowd. Generally speaking, younger people just aren't really interested in Hi-Fi audio anymore. Their idea of a "bangin' system" is a crappy HTIB setup, with a couple 15" car subs in addition to the crappy 8" sub that came with the HTIB. I have seen this MANY times.Polk does not stay in the SDA game by making drivers for the classics if there was no demand for it or money to be made from it, and this tells me there is a demand out there for these speakers. The exceedingly high prices commanded for SDA's in pristine condition confirms it. There is a market for them and Polk knows all about it.
Very true, but one of the things that is so appealing about the vintage SDA's is the fact that they're so affordable. Exceedingly high prices? Maybe for absolutely mint condition examples, but generally speaking, the SDA's can be had for very reasonable prices. A pair of SDA 1C's can generally be had in the $500 range. How much would a brand new 1C "equivalent" cost? The MSRP of a pair of LSi25's is $2800. The 1C equivalent would almost definitely cost more than that...so were looking at closer to $3500 MSRP or so. Factor in the difference in "real world" pricing, and you're still looking at $3000-3100 for a pair. There is a VERY significant difference between $500 and $3000.
A new SDA wouldn't really have anywhere near as much of the bang for the buck factor as the vintage SDA's have...since they aren't used. Many people are willing to drop $500 on a pair of speakers. You aren't going to have as many people willing to drop $3000 on a pair. I definitely won't be dropping 3k on a pair of speakers anytime soon. Quite a few of you have said "count me in" regarding a new SDA...but if it actually came down to it, how many of you are going to plunk down $3000+ on a pair of new SDA's. Some of you would...however, the majority of us would be waiting a few years for them to start showing up on the used market.All bolded stuff simply is not true and in fact not even close to being true
1) as I've stated several times with DSP technology the speakers don;t have to be as big as current classic SDA's. They could be made smaller. Matt talked about this at PF '08.
2) While LSi's don;t have the volume of the other series I think they sell quite well, or they did when they could be demo'd
3) Polk Audio is probably among one of the top 10 names in audio that is the most recognizable. I have several friends that are not into audio and they all have heard of Polk Audio and one in fact thinks they are a higher end company.
1-My mistake. I didn't read the entire thread post for post. Would an SDA with DSP technology have the same magic as the original SDA's though? I don't know one way or the other...but I find it hard to believe that they could accurately simulate the original analog SDA effect with digital algorithms. It sounds like DSP would be more of a compromise than a solution. I'm not exactly a speaker designer though...
2-The LSi's do sell fairly well...but they aren't a "mass market" speaker in the same sense as the Monitor's and RTi's. I never suggested that the LSi's didn't sell well...I simply meant that the LSi's, and higher end speakers in general, are never going to sell as well as speakers that are in the Monitor/RTi type of class. Most people just aren't that crazy about audio. Especially with our countries economy being the way it is...I don't think much of the general public is really looking to drop thousands of dollars on speakers right now.
3-Yes, Polk is one of the most recognizable names in audio...but that's not saying much. As I mentioned above, I have NEVER met a person, outside of internet forums, that has ever heard of a Polk SDA. Seriously...not once. Aside from a few of my friends that are also somewhat into audio gear, the majority of them have never even heard of Polk Audio.Cathy, I do hang around with a little older crowd than Curt so perhaps my frame of reference is a little skewed. Because one thing I have noticed is how many younger kids 16-21 years old aren't sure who Led Zeppelin is
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I still think it's somewhere in the middle as far as Polk Audio being recognized as a brand.
H9
I think that's probably a big part of it. As I mentioned above, the younger crowd really isn't that into Hi-Fi anymore. Most of my friends that are my age don't even own a stereo...they listen to their music on computer speakers, cell phone speakers...ear buds...and numerous other terrible sounding devices. The younger generations don't want big hulking stereo equipment for the most part. They want cheap convenience. Most of them could probably buy a Bose HTIB setup, and be completely happy with it for the rest of their lives.I'm certain I'll get flamed for this but here goes.
Bose has their own store in several malls. Why couldn't Polk have a "Polk Store" in several malls to actually show the product that hardly anyone can see, touch or hear? Put them in different scale malls, average and high end and see what washes out. They could mix and match just like mom and pops used to do to.
Gordon
Sounds like a pretty good idea to me...but it's probably not practical from a financial perspective. They'd be looking at a LOT of overhead there.polkfarmboy wrote: »I cant stop thinking about the new speakers polks going to be releasing after kyle spilled the beans on them
Whats the cabinets gona be like....slim piano black with industrial metal grills and gold foor spikes
What price will they be retailing for ?
Will they be tailored for todays high def sound formats like bluray
Will the bring out more than one centre channel ....... I would love to see a huge gigantic monster
i would like to also see a contemporary approach to the speakers designs ,especialy the centre channel
I think he's basically already released all of the information he has about it. It's probably one of those "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you" situations. I think we're just going to have to be patient for more info.
Will they be tailored for Bluray? How exactly can you tailor a speaker for Blu-ray? As long as it's capable of accurately reproducing a full bandwidth(or nearly full bandwidth) signal, it's doing all that it needs to do. There is no such thing as a speaker that's "tailored for Bluray". Some companies try to use statements like that as an advertising ploy, but it's pure BS.
Also, Bluray audio isn't high def...it's High Resolution.
I'd also love to see an updated LSi series center channel. Something with four midwoofers and a tweeter would be great.The nirvana inducer-
APC H10 Power Conditioner
Marantz UD5005 universal player
Parasound Halo P5 preamp
Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's -
I believe you're referring to Matt Polk's LSI-9 SDA effect set up...uses two pairs of LSI-9s...2 left channel 2 right channel if I remember that picture and the description correctly. Perhaps one of the members who was actually there can confirm this.
cnh
No, I believe he is talking about the LSi driver based "monitors" the live band was using when they played during the lunch break in the tent. 4 LSi drivers and 4 Vifa tweets and 2 ports per cabinet. All the band members were Polk employees and they sounded damn good!
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Yeah that makes nosense,It's either accurate or it's not.How does one tailor a speaker to a format?
Blu -ray is most certainly hi rez.BTW, Blu-ray is not high def. SACD is. -
No, I believe he is talking about the LSi driver based "monitors" the live band was using when they played during the lunch break in the tent. 4 LSi drivers and 4 Vifa tweets and 2 ports per cabinet. All the band members were Polk employees and they sounded damn good!
I think he is speaking of the set-up at Matt's house.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I remember some pictures from a past polk fest at Polk headquarters -- can't remember the year but it's been a few-- of some speaks that were being used by the band that played ---- they looked kinda like lsi9's but had more drivers & seemed a bit wider
wish I woulda saved that pic darn it
I have that pic and the house band was The Kluge....the year 2005.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
I believe you're referring to Matt Polk's LSI-9 SDA effect set up...uses two pairs of LSI-9s...2 left channel 2 right channel if I remember that picture and the description correctly. Perhaps one of the members who was actually there can confirm this.
cnh
No, that's not what he is referring to.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
No, I believe he is talking about the LSi driver based "monitors" the live band was using when they played during the lunch break in the tent. 4 LSi drivers and 4 Vifa tweets and 2 ports per cabinet. All the band members were Polk employees and they sounded damn good!
You know what's amusing Brock, is that barely anyone noticed that driver array. L O L. You get a gold star today.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
Many of us were discussing the arrays at our tables."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Face - When did you become one of the normal people?CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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You must be mistaking me for someone else."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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I have no idea but I have had information for years.....I should write this stuff down next time, hmmmm.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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*deleted*"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Mhmacw - Relax....if this is going to be attack mode, take it privately or elsewhere. And to the readers of his comment ....take my response to heart.
If you have some issues, you can certainly PM me offline and I'll tighten you up on factual information.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
no attack at all dorokusi. just glad to see the moderation is across the board equally thats all. those arrays spawned my thoughts of a freq specific array. say 10 speakers with 2khrtz coverage each. though the idea was sort of shot down or sent back to the drawing board i still have the curiosity for the design. i think at close range it woukld be muddled but i also think for larger distances. say 150 yards. the concept hold merit
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I'll inquire about some of the specifics of those....give me a week or so. They may not tell me anything, so....CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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ya -- those are the ones I remembered !!!!!! I'll take a pair please !!!
Thanks for posting the pic -
i have to agree with your rebuttle curt. it seems rather clear to me the sda line was designed before the digitaly processed sound. sort of makes the crossover config moot if the receiver is already changing and delaying parts of the sound source.
in fact in the early 90's matsushita (panasonic/canon) had a biamped bookshelf system. it had two sets of tweeters per speak. the lower tweeter had a delay and echo function controlled in the processor and adjustable to the user. it would seem to me this was their version of the sda but the tech was in the processor not the speak. i think it was more tunable given the ability to adjust the second tweet but it was also rather limited due to the fact the speakers really only sounded right connected to that processor. -
Yeah that makes nosense,It's either accurate or it's not.
Blu -ray is most certainly hi rez.
Blu-ray video is hi rez, Blu-ray audio is not as compared to SACD or DVD-A.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
i have to agree with your rebuttle curt. it seems rather clear to me the sda line was designed before the digitaly processed sound. sort of makes the crossover config moot if the receiver is already changing and delaying parts of the sound source.
in fact in the early 90's matsushita (panasonic/canon) had a biamped bookshelf system. it had two sets of tweeters per speak. the lower tweeter had a delay and echo function controlled in the processor and adjustable to the user. it would seem to me this was their version of the sda but the tech was in the processor not the speak. i think it was more tunable given the ability to adjust the second tweet but it was also rather limited due to the fact the speakers really only sounded right connected to that processor.
You are way off base. The first part of your comment is it's obvious in the 1980's there were no electronic devices that could actively do what Polk accomplished passively. One device did tend to mimmick and that was the Carver Sonic Holography unit. It's not near as natural and convincing as the passive SDA's, IMO. No receiver today or back then did anything close to SDA, so I'm not sure I get what your saying there. Surround sound was/is NOT SDA. Plus SDA's don't delay or increase any of the signal, it attempts to corrrect the delay already inherent in regular stereo speakers. SDA is closer to how we hear in reality than stereo is.
Fast forward to the mid 90's Polk released the SRT speaker system that used a controller for bass management and had DSP algorithms to augment the passive part of SDA.
Fast forward to about 2007-2008 after spending close to 7 years writing the DSP algorithms they introduced the Surround Bar 360 and it is really quite a piece of engineering. More convincing in its execution than any other type of "bar" speaker.
As to the 2nd part of your comment. What you describe isn't really close to what SDA is all about so I'd have to say while it's in the ballpark, it was more a novelty than something truly like SDA.
Kyle, Mark, Russ feel free to correct my history if I missed anything or have my facts a little hazy.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Depending on how much space is available on the disk, it's the same quality, if not better than DVD-A(96/24).Blu-ray video is hi rez, Blu-ray audio is not as compared to SACD or DVD-A."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
It is spec'd identically to DVD-A which is capable of 24/192k 2 ch and 24/96 for multi ch...... Blu-ray audio is not as compared to SACD or DVD-A. -
Ok, my mistake for adding DVD-A to my comments. Yes, it is/was capable of 24/192, but rarely was it ever there. Therefore, I consider SACD as the only true hi-rez format.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I am convinced if Polk had garanties that such speakers would sell they'd gladly do it. TRK
Really? What convinced you of this? You want guarantees that large expensive speakers sell? Google Wilson Audio Speakers. Google McIntosh Speakers. Google Swan Speakers. You can also click on this link:
High End Speaker Packages, Swan, McIntosh, Etc.
Wilson Audio has been selling very expensive loudspeakers since 1981. Some of their models are well over $100,000. Is that convincing enough?
As our club president succinctly put it:Some folks here need to get out more.comfortablycurt wrote: »If Polk were to bring back the SDA's...how much would the cost? A few thousand dollars, at least. How many of you are actually going to go out and buy them brand new? I definitely wouldn't...and very few of you guys actually would. Some, yes...but very few.
I would hope that Polk's marketing vision would extend far beyond the confines of our cozy little group on the forum and far beyond the confines of the continental US.;)
If Polk wanted to be in the high end market space, they would be there. Sometimes a company is simply not interested in making a particular type of product or offering a particular type of service, even if they KNOW said product or service would be profitable.
I turn down many wedding photography jobs every year because I simply don't enjoy, and am not interested in, that type of photography.
I turn down many speaker and component modification jobs every year simply because I do not enjoy that type of work. People have even offered to fly me to their location to mod their speakers. I have had over 100 requests to build AI-1 Dreadnoughts for people. In every case, the answer was no. I don't even like working on my speakers and electronics.:)Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »I have had over 100 requests to build AI-1 Dreadnoughts for people. In every case, the answer was no.
I at least wanted to say thank you Raife for giving me the technical layout and plans so I could build my own. So, thank you very much Raife, it sounds absolutely phenominal.
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
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comfortablycurt wrote: »The average Joe has no idea what Polk Audio is...and probably doesn't even care.mdaudioguy wrote: »...does the average Joe know Klipsch any more than Polk?
Hmmmmm...the subject of this thread is:"Will Polk ever bring out high end speakers?"
Assuming that the aforementioned magical, mystical day ever arrives, does it make sense that Polk would market such speakers to the "average Joe" or even to the "average forum member"?
Does it make sense to even bring the buying preferences of the "average Joe" into a discussion of any high end product, speakers or otherwise?
I'm just wondering.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Nor are all SACD's sourced from pure DSD masters.I consider SACD as the only true hi-rez format. -
DK, you left off the next sentence of my post!DarqueKnight wrote: »Hmmmmm...the subject of this thread is:"Will Polk ever bring out high end speakers?"
Assuming that the aforementioned magical, mystical day ever arrives, does it make sense that Polk would market such speakers to the "average Joe" or even to the "average forum member"?
Does it make sense to even bring the buying preferences of the "average Joe" into a discussion of any high end product, speakers or otherwise?
I'm just wondering.
My point was that such speakers are for enthusiasts? That's why I made reference to such as a niche. You are correct, it wouldn't make sense to try and sell high-end anything to Average Joe, because eventually whatever Average Joe has also becomes Average.mdaudioguy wrote: »...does the average Joe know Klipsch any more than Polk? I doubt it. -
You are way off base. The first part of your comment is it's obvious in the 1980's there were no electronic devices that could actively do what Polk accomplished passively. One device did tend to mimmick and that was the Carver Sonic Holography unit. It's not near as natural and convincing as the passive SDA's, IMO. No receiver today or back then did anything close to SDA, so I'm not sure I get what your saying there. Surround sound was/is NOT SDA. Plus SDA's don't delay or increase any of the signal, it attempts to corrrect the delay already inherent in regular stereo speakers. SDA is closer to how we hear in reality than stereo is.
Fast forward to the mid 90's Polk released the SRT speaker system that used a controller for bass management and had DSP algorithms to augment the passive part of SDA.
Fast forward to about 2007-2008 after spending close to 7 years writing the DSP algorithms they introduced the Surround Bar 360 and it is really quite a piece of engineering. More convincing in its execution than any other type of "bar" speaker.
As to the 2nd part of your comment. What you describe isn't really close to what SDA is all about so I'd have to say while it's in the ballpark, it was more a novelty than something truly like SDA.
Kyle, Mark, Russ feel free to correct my history if I missed anything or have my facts a little hazy.
H9
thats precisely my point heiney...had there been a processor with multi out per channel to send different signal to different speaks(or sub sets in an array ) the sda would not be what it is. there was no such tool at the time of sda. yet another reason why it would be difficult to launch an sda line today. the processor would be much cheaper to design and manufacture then a line of speaks for the select few that truly have a need or desire for a design specific loud speaker that could cater to and keep up with the technology today let alone surpass it and if that much research is involved it would surely have to leap past the processors capability or it wouldnt be worth doing. the fact that the sda has to be up graded to work properly with todays electronics is proof positive(no im not discounting age of the crossover components and everything has to be replaced at one point or another) that with out modification to a crossover designed for analog 25 years ago that the sda isnt really much compared to the speaker designs of today. dont get me wrong...for the 80's it was state of the art. and still today with a few tweaks im sure they hold their own but as curt said.(as it pains me so haha) the cost of design for an sda, versus a generic high grade speaker that could be hooked to any dsp, is just too far of a reach for the small niche that would buy them. could it be done ? yes. is it plausable? no. the way i understand it is this...you have a crossover thats the size of a logging boot in the sda line....you have 3 trilobyite and it fits in your hand. which is gonna work better? -
Ok, my mistake for adding DVD-A to my comments. Yes, it is/was capable of 24/192, but rarely was it ever there. Therefore, I consider SACD as the only true hi-rez format.
to each their own but to me the true hi rez is....Live. to limit it to such a narrow format is just that...narrow. many of the satellite feeds are as good or better than sacd. 5.1 digital is damn close if not better due to versatility with amplification. so many factors with the finished product. if you are meaning the only hi rez RECORDED format then of course you are entitled to your own opinion but there are many conveyances that give live reproduction after amplification indiscernible from the performance itself.
