Vinyl Snap, Crackle & Pop Issues and Solutions!

hearingimpared

I did ask the powers that be about it becoming a sticky. The only threads that get stickies are threads pertaining to Polk Audio products.

Too bad Polk never made a turntable . . . it probably would be an all time favorite of vinyl junkies!;):D HINT, HINT, a nudge is good as a wink!:D

For now I guess it best, if you can use it, to book mark it or copy and paste it into a Word document or other word processing program so you can add to it.

hearingimpared

I covet this and would love to have it but the price tag is :eek::eek::eek:


http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/67652?store=acousticsounds&keywords=NL082510

Seeing that I already own the "Ultimate Analogue Test Record" and "21st Century Vinyl," and several "higher end" bubble levels, I would have to go ala cart which makes it a bit higher in price. If they offered a speed adjuster rather than just a speed tester that would definitely make for a great kit.

hearingimpared

I'm adding this to the list for record care and restoration. Although I've not tried it, there are a few here who have used glue for this method of cleaning and swear by it. If I had the dough I'd be using it right now.

I got this from another thread.

Record Revirginizer;

http://recordrevirginizer.com/about.html

hearingimpared

Side bar;

Why is God's good name does everything associated with vinyl especially accessories have to be so damned expensive! Niche' market perhaps!?! They don't sell as many so they only manufacture a limited number!?! Who knows . . . I do know that I hate paying $39 for a record or even $29 or $19 . . . I used to buy 6 - 10 records a week in my youth at @ $1.50 a pop!

Having designed and manufactured a record clamp I understand the higher price for items like these because they are made in small lots, at least by smaller companies.

bikezappa

hearingimpared wrote: »

I'm adding this to the list for record care and restoration. Although I've not tried it, there are a few here who have used glue for this method of cleaning and swear by it. If I had the dough I'd be using it right now.

I got this from another thread.

Record Revirginizer;

http://recordrevirginizer.com/about.html

Interesting site. We use a similar product for cleaning flat polished surfaces.
It certainly works. One of the issues however is that the liquid must replace the air in the record grooves in order flow to the bottom of the groove. A critical step is how the liquid is applied to the surface because you don't want to trap any air between the liquid and LP. We start pouring the liquid from the center and use a mandrel to slowly push the liquid against the surface of the record from the center to the edge.

quadzilla

hearingimpared wrote: »

I'm adding this to the list for record care and restoration. Although I've not tried it, there are a few here who have used glue for this method of cleaning and swear by it. If I had the dough I'd be using it right now.

I got this from another thread.

Record Revirginizer;

http://recordrevirginizer.com/about.html

Most people that use that method just use wood glue. It's cheap and they swear by it.

doctorcilantro

I have the alignment tool from Turntable Basics, works well with my linear and much cheaper. If you have a computer of even a voltmeter I'm sure you can adjust azimuth in a similar fashion. Much discussion about how important this is on Agon and elsewhere. IIRC, azimuth regards channel separation and not tracking distortion, and I use a level, eyeball, and my PC, and then simply adjust my dual volume preamp to with .1 db.

R. Tollerton, a very smart chap's take on azimuth:

Azimuth specifically refers to a misaligned generator in the cartridge itself. That's a purely linear distortion (the channels get mixed together) - even if it is audible it is patently inoffensive, and very huge errors are needed to cause soundstage problems. When the stylus is riding at an angle, that's tracking distortion, which is a different (and very nonlinear) phenomenon.

Anyone here steam clean while the record is on the RCM?

billbillw

hearingimpared wrote: »

Side bar;

Why is God's good name does everything associated with vinyl especially accessories have to be so damned expensive! Niche' market perhaps!?! They don't sell as many so they only manufacture a limited number!?! Who knows . . . I do know that I hate paying $39 for a record or even $29 or $19 . . . I used to buy 6 - 10 records a week in my youth at @ $1.50 a pop!

Having designed and manufactured a record clamp I understand the higher price for items like these because they are made in small lots, at least by smaller companies.

Because the smart business men who sell this stuff realize that their target consumer is off their rockers and will spend silly money on stuff for small gains. Its not just in the vinyl segment, its throughout the 'audiophile' (or phool) industry.

hearingimpared

quadzilla wrote: »

Most people that use that method just use wood glue. It's cheap and they swear by it.

I know but I got a thing about using products on vinyl or most any gear that wasn't made for audio.

That's one of the reasons I never went with Mortite.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

I have the alignment tool from Turntable Basics, works well with my linear and much cheaper. If you have a computer of even a voltmeter I'm sure you can adjust azimuth in a similar fashion. Much discussion about how important this is on Agon and elsewhere. IIRC, azimuth regards channel separation and not tracking distortion, and I use a level, eyeball, and my PC, and then simply adjust my dual volume preamp to with .1 db.

R. Tollerton, a very smart chap's take on azimuth:



Anyone here steam clean while the record is on the RCM?

When I was steam cleaning I used it on the 16.5. As I've stated many times before I had to stop steam cleaning because I'm too heavy handed and have scorched several records. After using it on the RCM however, you definitely need a soft teri-cloth or cotton rag to dry the whole top of the unit because the over spray of steam then condenses on everything.

Getting the azimuth right is about making sure that both sides of the stylus are making the same contact with each side of the groove with the point of the stylus dead center in bottom of the groove. This maximizes the channel separation and reduces the groove distortion. I've always eyeballed it with a mirror and strong magnifying glass as my tonearm and cartridge are precisely made. It would however be nice to use a tone generator on the testing LP and a VOM on each channel. With tonearms and cartridges that don't have tight tolerances, eyeballing is okay but test tones and VOM or other measuring method will ensure the azimuth is set perfectly.

hearingimpared

billbillw wrote: »

Because the smart business men who sell this stuff realize that their target consumer is off their rockers and will spend silly money on stuff for small gains. Its not just in the vinyl segment, its throughout the 'audiophile' (or phool) industry.

LOL!!! Bill that was a given! It really was a rhetorical question or maybe even more so a complaint.;)

hearingimpared

Here's an item that will make your life so much easier and exact when adjusting the azimuth on your stylus/cartridge.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65758?store=acousticsounds&keywords=NL111010

It really doesn't get any easier than this and will help you dial in your azimuth perfectly.

hearingimpared

hearingimpared wrote: »

Here's an item that will make your life so much easier and exact when adjusting the azimuth on your stylus/cartridge.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65758?store=acousticsounds&keywords=NL111010

It really doesn't get any easier than this and will help you dial in your azimuth perfectly.

Yowser!!! Spoke to a tech at AS and this thing is easy as pie. The hardest part, and for all intents and purposes, it isn't that difficult, is rotating or shimming the cartridge.

EDIT: well the hardest part might be coming up with the moola on the price tag and justifying it! LOL!

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I wonder if the same thing can be accomplished for free? Try reversing the leads of one side of a cartridge, say swap the red and green leads at the back of the cartridge. Then start playing a nice flat monophonic record, adjust the azimuth until you get the least amount of sound being played. That should be the best left/right balance.
Regards, Ken

hearingimpared

Thanks Ken! In my best Johnny Carson voice, "I did not know that!" :biggrin:

Question; In your experience have you noticed a difference in sound between the old '50s & '60s mono LPs vs. a newer release from a few years ago like Cream's "Disraeli Gears?"

bikezappa

The old AR amplifier has a similar feature call NULL to balance the input of the phono/turntable.

You played a mono record and adjusted the two phone pots, located in the back, for the lowest sound while in the null position of the balance control.

I bet you could the null position for phono adjustment also.

[Deleted User]

Hello,
Most of my experience with mono versions of stereo are with RCA and Mercury classical records. I find the bass response to have an extra (here's where it's hard to put into words something you hear) "roundness" that isn't on the stereo version. Solo instruments are fine, well defined. But for the rest of the orchestra it's a real loss of a spacious quality.
In terms of popular records it might be more a question of the early recording techniques used for stereo. I think some of the early ones were not real "stereo" but were two channel. Not trying to create a believable stereo image but just have two audio tracks that could be mixed down different ways. When they take these two audio tracks and try and create a believable stereo image the problems happen. So, in that case a monophonic record may be more satisfying.
I've been listening to the Opus3 records, especially Test Record 3 for a refresher course in imaging. Nice to get grounded every-so-often with a great sounding record.
Regards, Ken

hearingimpared

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
Most of my experience with mono versions of stereo are with RCA and Mercury classical records. I find the bass response to have an extra (here's where it's hard to put into words something you hear) "roundness" that isn't on the stereo version. Solo instruments are fine, well defined. But for the rest of the orchestra it's a real loss of a spacious quality.
In terms of popular records it might be more a question of the early recording techniques used for stereo. I think some of the early ones were not real "stereo" but were two channel. Not trying to create a believable stereo image but just have two audio tracks that could be mixed down different ways. When they take these two audio tracks and try and create a believable stereo image the problems happen. So, in that case a monophonic record may be more satisfying.
I've been listening to the Opus3 records, especially Test Record 3 for a refresher course in imaging. Nice to get grounded every-so-often with a great sounding record.
Regards, Ken

Ken,

I have that on CD and while some of it is hard to listen to it does sound great. IIRC I think I may have given it to Jesse.

Joe

doctorcilantro

hearingimpared wrote: »

Ken,

I have that on CD and while some of it is hard to listen to it does sound great. IIRC I think I may have given it to Jesse.

Joe

Just wondering if something is wrong with my balanced rig that I just set back up, or if you all have observed:

Pops and clicks with your system powered up (well, amps but not even spinning platter) at rest in the armrest, like static discharging.

Some advise caps across each channel inside the XLR when going balanced, never did it before and now wondering if it's cause is Winter or the wiring, which is a new type of wire from the old copper litz I was using.

steveinaz

Awesome thread, sticky worthy. Thanks for all the info!

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

Just wondering if something is wrong with my balanced rig that I just set back up, or if you all have observed:

Pops and clicks with your system powered up (well, amps but not even spinning platter) at rest in the armrest, like static discharging.

Some advise caps across each channel inside the XLR when going balanced, never did it before and now wondering if it's cause is Winter or the wiring, which is a new type of wire from the old copper litz I was using.

Doc my room gets very static(y) in the winter and I constantly need to give the whole tables shots with the Zerostat gun but I don't ever recall getting ticks and pops with the arm at rest and the platter not spinning. Have you tried moving the selector of your pre to another port to see if it does the same thing on let's say the CD setting?

EDIT: There is one condition inwhich I've experienced this. It is when the room is very dry and I pick up a load of static while walking across the room on the rug. When I get close to my TT which is rich with acrylic and delrin (plastics are terrible when it comes to static; vinyl!?! think plastic!), I can hear the static discharge from my hands if I don't ground myself first. One more thought; I typically ground myself before touching any gear but have noticed that if I use the rack posts to ground out my personal static, I've heard the crackles come through the speakers even though the shelves are MDF.

doctorcilantro

No, my setup is so damn obtuse, just one to set it all up.

I had my backup test cart. on for alignment etc. and I didn't get any of this. Now I'm wondering if I wired up the Soundsmith wrong. Took a look at their pics and the pins seem different locations than what I'm used to. The SS also has a custom dedicated 5th pin for a ground wire which is hooked up to the preamp.

Will run home at lunch and take a peek.

hearingimpared

Can these three be related? A resounding YES!

Most people believe that too much vertical tracking (down) force (VTF) will cause record wear. This is not true unless of course you go nuts with the down force and go well over the recommended down force for you cartridge.

Record wear; The leading cause of record wear is playing records dirty. However improper TT/tonearm/cartridge setup which will cause distortion is definitely 1a. Think of it this way; were you to have your stylus zenith setup up incorrectly, the stylus would be riding the groove pretty much sideways scraping its way through the grooves and shaving and welding pieces of vinyl off the groove walls not to mention the damage caused deep in the groove. Tiny frequency undulations would be sheared right out of the groove. Always clean your records before each play and I recommend checking your settings once a month to ensure that this mechanical device has not gone askew with many hours of play.

Record wear/Sibilance Related? Indeed!!! Moving Magnet cartridges typically require lower down force settings than Moving Coil cartridges. The problem here is that because many people believe that record wear is caused by going on the high side or over the recommended vertical down-force they set their tonearm weight to the lighter side. This IMHO is a bad practice.

Some may have noticed that all of a sudden there is sibilance present while playing some records but absent with others. The cause of this is typically the vertical down force being set to too light a setting. On top of the threat of sibilance setting the VTF to too light a setting does not permit the stylus to make full contact (intermittent contact) with the groove. This in itself will cause drastic record wear and sound awful. You could use the analogy of skipping a stone across a pond.

Record wear/Sibilance/SRA Related? Possibly!!! Through my vinyl journey since the late '70s I was a robust believer in VTA. While setting the VTA up properly will cause the music to snap into focus it is difficult to get this result as each record master is cut with a lathe and is setup differently on each lathe and by different recording engineers. This is not to say that VTA is not important. It is, but a happy medium needs to be sought. I've three VTA settings for my records. One different setting for massed produced 150 gm or lighter records; one for 180 gm records and one for 200 gm record. I've recorded the height of the tone arm for each and adjust as necessary.

Okay, what has this to do with this subtopic. Well I've found in the past 5 years or so that the Stylus Rake Angle (SRA) when set properly has more of a profound affect on the music playback. SRA in most cases is adjusted by changing your VTF. Lighten up or go heavy on the VTF and it changes the SRA. An article about SRA setting was written by Harry Pearson of TAS and followed up by Michael Fremer of Sterophile. Harry Pearson found that you can increase the VTF in small increments up to a gram over the cartridge manufacturer's recommendation and no additional record wear noted as long as the TT/tonearm/cartridge are setup properly.

I'm sorry but I don't have those articles on hand but feel free to google for them.

I've experimented with going over the recommended tracking force of my cartridge and found that, when increasing the VTF in small increments, the music seems to take on a full, rich sound. My cartridge calls for 1.8 to 2.2 grams of tracking force. I increased the weight 0.1 of a gram and listened. When I got to 0.25 gms over, the music, like when you hit the perfect VTA snapped into focus and more. Inner detail, decay & bloom, lower noise floor, deep richer punchier bass were realized more-so than when I hit the proper VTA.

Setting your SRA up properly does minimize or eliminate record wear and/or sibilance.

The virtues of VTA & SRA adjustments are as hotly a debated topic as the cable debates. I don't wish to engage in this debate but am simply posting my experiences with record wear, sibilance and SRA and their relationship(s).

Here are some Google links for VTA & SRA adjustments for you to peruse;

http://www.google.com/search?q=Setting+proper+VTA&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

http://www.google.com/search?q=Setting+proper+SRA&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

http://www.google.com/search?q=VTA+vs+SRA&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Here is a Google link for causes of record wear;

http://www.google.com/search?q=causes+of+LP+record+wear&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

To summarize; keep your records clean, check your TT/tonearm/cartridge settings regularly and experiment with your SRA, oh yeah and your VTA too and you will find yourself dancing in front of the rig when spinning vinyl.

I hope you find this helpful.

VINYL RULES!!!

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

No, my setup is so damn obtuse, just one to set it all up.

I had my backup test cart. on for alignment etc. and I didn't get any of this. Now I'm wondering if I wired up the Soundsmith wrong. Took a look at their pics and the pins seem different locations than what I'm used to. The SS also has a custom dedicated 5th pin for a ground wire which is hooked up to the preamp.

Will run home at lunch and take a peek.

One day I hope to own a Soundsmith designed cartridge!

doctorcilantro

hearingimpared wrote: »

One day I hope to own a Soundsmith designed cartridge!

I don't like their stylus guard, but it works. I gently brushed the ruby cantilever when taking it off, nothing more than a little pressure, but freaked me out a bit.

I think my system is going to be okay once I do a few things.

First, the channel imbalance I saw was due to the higher sampling rate I am using. At 192kHz you open up the spectrum and one channel is pulling something way up their probably at upwards of 50K. I haven't had time to look the FFT of a silent sample. Drop down to 44kHz, and the channels are matched at rest.

Good start.

There does seem to be something wrong the Weiss firewire driver I am using for my sound card @ 192kHz, and no amount of buffer has fixed it yet.

george daniel

hearingimpared wrote: »

One day I hope to own a Soundsmith designed cartridge!

If you like,I'll post,or pm my impressions of his re-tip--got my Dynavector 20 XL-Lo mc in for a re-tip--should have it back in about a month.

Fongolio

I'm going to get my Benz Micro Glider M2 retipped in a month or two from Soundsmith. I'm expecting a very big tax refund next year so that will pay for it. The ruby cantilever is supposed to really make for even better sound due to it's excellent rigidity. The angle on existing cantilever is slighty to the left and I've compensated by aligning with the cantilever instead of the cartridge body. As soon as I changed it the balance sounded much better. I'm still playing with VTF. I wish Pro-ject had an "on the fly" VTF adjuster I could add on. Even an aftermarket one would be nice but I've never seen one and I just can't afford to upgrade to another table when it otherwise sounds great.

Great thread by the way Joe. Thanks!!

Fongolio

doctorcilantro wrote: »

Just wondering if something is wrong with my balanced rig that I just set back up, or if you all have observed:

Pops and clicks with your system powered up (well, amps but not even spinning platter) at rest in the armrest, like static discharging.

Some advise caps across each channel inside the XLR when going balanced, never did it before and now wondering if it's cause is Winter or the wiring, which is a new type of wire from the old copper litz I was using.

I have to run a humidifier in the the winter months to keep the static down on the TT setup. Humidity up to about 70% Milty zerostat and carbon fiber brush before each play. All that and I still get a little static. I use a Herbie's mat and I find if I actually wash it in mild dish soap then rinse and let hang dry every few days it attracts less static. Left alone it really builds up a lot of static on my Pro-ject 6.9.

hearingimpared

george daniel wrote: »

If you like,I'll post,or pm my impressions of his re-tip--got my Dynavector 20 XL-Lo mc in for a re-tip--should have it back in about a month.

That sounds great George, thank you and Merry Christmas my friend to you and Janice!

hearingimpared

Fongolio wrote: »

I'm going to get my Benz Micro Glider M2 retipped in a month or two from Soundsmith. I'm expecting a very big tax refund next year so that will pay for it. The ruby cantilever is supposed to really make for even better sound due to it's excellent rigidity. The angle on existing cantilever is slighty to the left and I've compensated by aligning with the cantilever instead of the cartridge body. As soon as I changed it the balance sounded much better. I'm still playing with VTF. I wish Pro-ject had an "on the fly" VTF adjuster I could add on. Even an aftermarket one would be nice but I've never seen one and I just can't afford to upgrade to another table when it otherwise sounds great.

Great thread by the way Joe. Thanks!!

You're most welcome Kel. One thing, do you mean VTA adjuster rather than "VTF adjuster?" I've never attempted to change the weight (VTF) on the fly as I think it really is impossible due to the fact that you usually have to turn a weight or a dial at the back of the tonearm which IMHO should only be done with the tonearm locked in its rest for obvious reasons.

The VTA adjustment on the SME V technically can be done on the fly but it is very tricky and requires a very steady firm hand (which is not one of my strengths) so I've made the adjustments a little at a time making note of the height at the pivot until it snapped into focus. As stated earlier I just found a happy medium for the three thicknesses of LPs I frequently listen to.