Vinyl Snap, Crackle & Pop Issues and Solutions!
hearingimpared
Posts: 21,137
I've had several members who are just getting into vinyl PM me with questions on how to minimize or eliminate the noise which can be very annoying and discouraging. I thought I would just post up some advice that I have given. I hope this help you wet behind the ears vinyl guys!;)
This is a recent reply to such questions from a member who just bought a Micro Seiki turntable.
There can be many contributing factors to the ticks & pops;
1) as you stated, dirty records top the list especially used records. They may even look pristene and shiny but unless you can give them a good scrubbing whether it be with an RCM (recommended) or manually with a good Enzyme Cleaner such as Vinyl Zyme Gold http://www.smartdevicesinc.com/buggtussel.html or MFSL Plus Enzyme cleaner http://www.mofi.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=170 and then follow up with any of the record cleaning solutions then with a distilled water rinse, you are not getting the grunge completely out of the grooves. MFSL record cleaning brushes are the best to do the scubbing and subsequent cleaning with. You should buy two, one for the initial enzyme cleaner and other for susequent cleaners and rinses. A record, once prep'd should always be cleaned before each play.
2) The next cause could be and usually is static. Do you live is a dry climate? Or is the air in the room you have the TT dry. Vinyl is a static magnet especially after a good cleaning and vacuuming and a record charged with static will, as the stylus rides the grooves, discharge the static thus producing the ticks and pops. I use a ZeroStat gun which typically have become very expensive to the tune of $90 however I found a place http://www.juno.co.uk/products/299784-01.htm?currency=USD&utm_source=google_us&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Google%2BShopping which is the cheapest I've found. IMHO this is a necessity.
3) This one is a b*tch. Many records made during the massed produced era when vinyl was king have this problem. They were taken out of the mold press before they were cooled enough. This curse presents itself in a very noisy, ticking, crackling & popping especially in the first two tracts. I have several awesome recordings and performances that are cursed with this phenomina. I just had to learn to listen past the noise to hear the music. In some cases the noise is so bad that I just aquired another copy of the record trying to find one from a differt lot. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about this.
4) A good reflex record clamp such as the Clearaudio Twister Clamp http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/36249/Clearaudio-Twister_Clamp-Record_Mats_and_Clamps when applied to the record with a shim underneath the record causing the record to make intimate contact with the platter from the label out to the lead in bead will dampen most if not all of the noise. Also a good record mat, seeing that your platter is made of metal will also dampen the noise. This mat gets rave reviews from Keiko and others on this forum http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm I've never used a mat as all of my platters have been made from delrin or acrylic and don't require a mat. PM Keiko to get his opinion on this mat.
5) A new or used record if cleaned properly and stored in MFSL Inner Sleeves http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330415236445&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=c9a3f0151210a09c19f4b0a4ffd0c5da&itemid=330415236445&ff4=263602_263622 which is an anti-static, anti-dust archival record sleeve will usually produce a minimum to no tick or pop presentation.
6) A good stylus cleaner will keep your stylus clean and keep from welding dirt to your grooves thus producing wear which once done cannot be reversed. I use the Onzow Stylus Zerodust http://shop.ebay.com/items/onzow+zerodust?_dmd=2&_cpr=249&rvr_id=&crlp=4536146735_238321_238331&UA=WXI7&GUID=c9a3f0151210a09c19f4b0a4ffd0c5da&agid=924118115&MT_ID=70&keyword=onzow+zerodust&ff4=238321_238331 which is very easy and safe to use to clean your stylus. I use it after playing each side of a record.
7) Visual inspection of used records is at best a guess. IMHO the grading method currently in use, i.e., M, NM, VG+, VG is BS. I have records that to the naked eye or under a microscope looked pristene and shiny but sounded like ****. I've also had used records that looked like **** and thought were useless. E.g., My son had given me a Styx and a Rush LP. On first inspection of both they looked scratch, scuffed, scraped, full of finger prints and just plain grungy. I was going to trash them when my wife, who loves those two particular albums asked me to perform my restoration process. I did and WOW was I absoltely shocked. Aside from an occasional pop or tick they both sounded wonderful. To reiterate the grading method of visual inspection is at best hit or miss. When I go to Good Will to check out the LPs unless they have deep scratches I buy them and go through the restoration process and usually come out on top.
8) Finally, if you have a record that has been played over and over again DIRTY, the grooves have been welded with all kinds of dirt and groove damage has occured. Again there is nothing that you can do to remedy this. You can try to give it a good cleaning but if the noise remains, time to find a better copy.
Seriously getting into vinyl can be a very expensive proposition. Unfortunately & fortunately, the methods used and the expenses involved to maintain your record collection properly will reward you with a much better and satifying musical experience than digital unless you get into the uber expensive CD players and even then, well maintained records on a good vinyl rig will surpass even the most expensive CDPs.
The thing is to realize that you don't need to buy everything at once. Go at your own pace that your wallet will allow and you will find the vinyl sounding better and better with each tweak. At least once a month, check your set up as it is a mechanical device and the settings can vary over time degrading the SQ.
One more thing dialing in your TT componets i.e., cartridge alignment, tonearm setting, leveling etc is crucial to achieving and maintaining good SQ. TTs that are out of alignment will sound like **** and produce all kinds of nastys.
Hope this helps and I hope it doesn't overwhelm you LOL!
Joe
PS; Digital lovers need not reply or make snotty comments!:p:D
This is a recent reply to such questions from a member who just bought a Micro Seiki turntable.
There can be many contributing factors to the ticks & pops;
1) as you stated, dirty records top the list especially used records. They may even look pristene and shiny but unless you can give them a good scrubbing whether it be with an RCM (recommended) or manually with a good Enzyme Cleaner such as Vinyl Zyme Gold http://www.smartdevicesinc.com/buggtussel.html or MFSL Plus Enzyme cleaner http://www.mofi.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=170 and then follow up with any of the record cleaning solutions then with a distilled water rinse, you are not getting the grunge completely out of the grooves. MFSL record cleaning brushes are the best to do the scubbing and subsequent cleaning with. You should buy two, one for the initial enzyme cleaner and other for susequent cleaners and rinses. A record, once prep'd should always be cleaned before each play.
2) The next cause could be and usually is static. Do you live is a dry climate? Or is the air in the room you have the TT dry. Vinyl is a static magnet especially after a good cleaning and vacuuming and a record charged with static will, as the stylus rides the grooves, discharge the static thus producing the ticks and pops. I use a ZeroStat gun which typically have become very expensive to the tune of $90 however I found a place http://www.juno.co.uk/products/299784-01.htm?currency=USD&utm_source=google_us&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Google%2BShopping which is the cheapest I've found. IMHO this is a necessity.
3) This one is a b*tch. Many records made during the massed produced era when vinyl was king have this problem. They were taken out of the mold press before they were cooled enough. This curse presents itself in a very noisy, ticking, crackling & popping especially in the first two tracts. I have several awesome recordings and performances that are cursed with this phenomina. I just had to learn to listen past the noise to hear the music. In some cases the noise is so bad that I just aquired another copy of the record trying to find one from a differt lot. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about this.
4) A good reflex record clamp such as the Clearaudio Twister Clamp http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/36249/Clearaudio-Twister_Clamp-Record_Mats_and_Clamps when applied to the record with a shim underneath the record causing the record to make intimate contact with the platter from the label out to the lead in bead will dampen most if not all of the noise. Also a good record mat, seeing that your platter is made of metal will also dampen the noise. This mat gets rave reviews from Keiko and others on this forum http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm I've never used a mat as all of my platters have been made from delrin or acrylic and don't require a mat. PM Keiko to get his opinion on this mat.
5) A new or used record if cleaned properly and stored in MFSL Inner Sleeves http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330415236445&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=c9a3f0151210a09c19f4b0a4ffd0c5da&itemid=330415236445&ff4=263602_263622 which is an anti-static, anti-dust archival record sleeve will usually produce a minimum to no tick or pop presentation.
6) A good stylus cleaner will keep your stylus clean and keep from welding dirt to your grooves thus producing wear which once done cannot be reversed. I use the Onzow Stylus Zerodust http://shop.ebay.com/items/onzow+zerodust?_dmd=2&_cpr=249&rvr_id=&crlp=4536146735_238321_238331&UA=WXI7&GUID=c9a3f0151210a09c19f4b0a4ffd0c5da&agid=924118115&MT_ID=70&keyword=onzow+zerodust&ff4=238321_238331 which is very easy and safe to use to clean your stylus. I use it after playing each side of a record.
7) Visual inspection of used records is at best a guess. IMHO the grading method currently in use, i.e., M, NM, VG+, VG is BS. I have records that to the naked eye or under a microscope looked pristene and shiny but sounded like ****. I've also had used records that looked like **** and thought were useless. E.g., My son had given me a Styx and a Rush LP. On first inspection of both they looked scratch, scuffed, scraped, full of finger prints and just plain grungy. I was going to trash them when my wife, who loves those two particular albums asked me to perform my restoration process. I did and WOW was I absoltely shocked. Aside from an occasional pop or tick they both sounded wonderful. To reiterate the grading method of visual inspection is at best hit or miss. When I go to Good Will to check out the LPs unless they have deep scratches I buy them and go through the restoration process and usually come out on top.
8) Finally, if you have a record that has been played over and over again DIRTY, the grooves have been welded with all kinds of dirt and groove damage has occured. Again there is nothing that you can do to remedy this. You can try to give it a good cleaning but if the noise remains, time to find a better copy.
Seriously getting into vinyl can be a very expensive proposition. Unfortunately & fortunately, the methods used and the expenses involved to maintain your record collection properly will reward you with a much better and satifying musical experience than digital unless you get into the uber expensive CD players and even then, well maintained records on a good vinyl rig will surpass even the most expensive CDPs.
The thing is to realize that you don't need to buy everything at once. Go at your own pace that your wallet will allow and you will find the vinyl sounding better and better with each tweak. At least once a month, check your set up as it is a mechanical device and the settings can vary over time degrading the SQ.
One more thing dialing in your TT componets i.e., cartridge alignment, tonearm setting, leveling etc is crucial to achieving and maintaining good SQ. TTs that are out of alignment will sound like **** and produce all kinds of nastys.
Hope this helps and I hope it doesn't overwhelm you LOL!
Joe
PS; Digital lovers need not reply or make snotty comments!:p:D
Post edited by hearingimpared on
Comments
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Very nice. Thanks for the thought and effort, Joe!
-
Excellent Post.
Let me add another tidbit or two of info I've found to help with the "crackle & pops".
My place is extremely dry and a humidifier has been a blessing when playing vinyl.
Humidity levels contribute to the static.
Don't be afraid of using Windex on some really nasty vinyl. IF you can't get it clean using recommended cleaners Windex loosens the tar and nicotine and cleans it up pretty good.
There is a lot of "smokers" vinyl out there. Careful on the labels because the ammonia will loosen the adhesive. -
Very nice write up with great links.
Thanks Joe. You da Manengtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
Nice write up Joe-- now,,when you get time,,how about one on tt setup
Two brushes--I never thought of that--good idea sir.
BTW-- the Velvet Underground is on it's wayJC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut) -
Excellent Post.
Let me add another tidbit or two of info I've found to help with the "crackle & pops".
My place is extremely dry and a humidifier has been a blessing when playing vinyl.
Humidity levels contribute to the static.
Don't be afraid of using Windex on some really nasty vinyl. IF you can't get it clean using recommended cleaners Windex loosens the tar and nicotine and cleans it up pretty good.
There is a lot of "smokers" vinyl out there. Careful on the labels because the ammonia will loosen the adhesive.
Good advise but I have to comment further. Careful with the humidfier. Vinyl is not only a static magnet but mold just loves to get in the grooves of vinyl and eat away at them like cancer.
Also, Harry Weisfeld of VPI recommends PLAIN windex to clean the platters and plinths on his tables. If you are going to use Windex on your records it has to be the plain old Windex with no additives and a rinse or two with distilled water is a must.
The enzyme cleaners do a very good job on tar and nicotine but they are mostly geared towards mold and other nasties. -
george daniel wrote: »Nice write up Joe-- now,,when you get time,,how about one on tt setup
Two brushes--I never thought of that--good idea sir.
BTW-- the Velvet Underground is on it's way
Thanks George, you shims are going out in tonight's mail.
TT setup? Well I'll leave that to Michael Fremer's 21st Century Vinyl DVD. There are to many variables to consider as well as a plethora of different arm, cartridges tables, suspensions platter types, bearing types etc on TT setup so make a one-post-fits-all. However I will work on covering the basics. -
Reason I ask,, I get confused ,,lol,,easily,,but does tracking pressure affect VTA? If so,, what do you do?I'm trying to gain more confidence in my tt abilities,, but,,I do not have,nor can afford all the "tools" Mr Fremer has,,I have the thing with lines/alingment that came with the scout,and a digital scale.It gets expensive having to pay someone to set the puppies up,,at least according to the way fremer does it,,then there the thing about left and right channel seperation that he does with a voltmeter.Whew!!!--Maybe I need to move on up the VPI or another line ,,one that has more things that I can do to/with the turntable,,,now theres' a frightining thought.;)JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
-
thanks for the write up Joe.
I was running into the static problem as the new table has felt on top of the platter and its getting every hair and crap all over it and I can feel the static on the records when I pull them out of their selves. -
hearingimpared wrote: »I've had several members who are just getting into vinyl PM me with questions on how to minimize or eliminate the noise which can be very annoying and discouraging. I thought I would just post up some advice that I have given. I hope this help you wet behind the ears vinyl guys!;)
This is a recent reply to such questions from a member who just bought a Micro Seiki turntable.
There can be many contributing factors to the ticks & pops;
1) as you stated, dirty records top the list especially used records. They may even look pristene and shiny but unless you can give them a good scrubbing whether it be with an RCM (recommended) or manually with a good Enzyme Cleaner such as Vinyl Zyme Gold http://www.smartdevicesinc.com/buggtussel.html or MFSL Plus Enzyme cleaner http://www.mofi.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=170 and then follow up with any of the record cleaning solutions then with a distilled water rinse, you are not getting the grunge completely out of the grooves. MFSL record cleaning brushes are the best to do the scubbing and subsequent cleaning with. You should buy two, one for the initial enzyme cleaner and other for susequent cleaners and rinses. A record, once prep'd should always be cleaned before each play.
2) The next cause could be and usually is static. Do you live is a dry climate? Or is the air in the room you have the TT dry. Vinyl is a static magnet especially after a good cleaning and vacuuming and a record charged with static will, as the stylus rides the grooves, discharge the static thus producing the ticks and pops. I use a ZeroStat gun which typically have become very expensive to the tune of $90 however I found a place http://www.juno.co.uk/products/299784-01.htm?currency=USD&utm_source=google_us&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Google%2BShopping which is the cheapest I've found. IMHO this is a necessity.
3) This one is a b*tch. Many records made during the massed produced era when vinyl was king have this problem. They were taken out of the mold press before they were cooled enough. This curse presents itself in a very noisy, ticking, crackling & popping especially in the first two tracts. I have several awesome recordings and performances that are cursed with this phenomina. I just had to learn to listen past the noise to hear the music. In some cases the noise is so bad that I just aquired another copy of the record trying to find one from a differt lot. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about this.
4) A good reflex record clamp such as the Clearaudio Twister Clamp http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/36249/Clearaudio-Twister_Clamp-Record_Mats_and_Clamps when applied to the record with a shim underneath the record causing the record to make intimate contact with the platter from the label out to the lead in bead will dampen most if not all of the noise. Also a good record mat, seeing that your platter is made of metal will also dampen the noise. This mat gets rave reviews from Keiko and others on this forum http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm I've never used a mat as all of my platters have been made from delrin or acrylic and don't require a mat. PM Keiko to get his opinion on this mat.
5) A new or used record if cleaned properly and stored in MFSL Inner Sleeves http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330415236445&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=c9a3f0151210a09c19f4b0a4ffd0c5da&itemid=330415236445&ff4=263602_263622 which is an anti-static, anti-dust archival record sleeve will usually produce a minimum to no tick or pop presentation.
6) A good stylus cleaner will keep your stylus clean and keep from welding dirt to your grooves thus producing wear which once done cannot be reversed. I use the Onzow Stylus Zerodust http://shop.ebay.com/items/onzow+zerodust?_dmd=2&_cpr=249&rvr_id=&crlp=4536146735_238321_238331&UA=WXI7&GUID=c9a3f0151210a09c19f4b0a4ffd0c5da&agid=924118115&MT_ID=70&keyword=onzow+zerodust&ff4=238321_238331 which is very easy and safe to use to clean your stylus. I use it after playing each side of a record.
7) Visual inspection of used records is at best a guess. IMHO the grading method currently in use, i.e., M, NM, VG+, VG is BS. I have records that to the naked eye or under a microscope looked pristene and shiny but sounded like ****. I've also had used records that looked like **** and thought were useless. E.g., My son had given me a Styx and a Rush LP. On first inspection of both they looked scratch, scuffed, scraped, full of finger prints and just plain grungy. I was going to trash them when my wife, who loves those two particular albums asked me to perform my restoration process. I did and WOW was I absoltely shocked. Aside from an occasional pop or tick they both sounded wonderful. To reiterate the grading method of visual inspection is at best hit or miss. When I go to Good Will to check out the LPs unless they have deep scratches I buy them and go through the restoration process and usually come out on top.
8) Finally, if you have a record that has been played over and over again DIRTY, the grooves have been welded with all kinds of dirt and groove damage has occured. Again there is nothing that you can do to remedy this. You can try to give it a good cleaning but if the noise remains, time to find a better copy.
Seriously getting into vinyl can be a very expensive proposition. Unfortunately & fortunately, the methods used and the expenses involved to maintain your record collection properly will reward you with a much better and satifying musical experience than digital unless you get into the uber expensive CD players and even then, well maintained records on a good vinyl rig will surpass even the most expensive CDPs.
The thing is to realize that you don't need to buy everything at once. Go at your own pace that your wallet will allow and you will find the vinyl sounding better and better with each tweak. At least once a month, check your set up as it is a mechanical device and the settings can vary over time degrading the SQ.
One more thing dialing in your TT componets i.e., cartridge alignment, tonearm setting, leveling etc is crucial to achieving and maintaining good SQ. TTs that are out of alignment will sound like **** and produce all kinds of nastys.
Hope this helps and I hope it doesn't overwhelm you LOL!
Joe
PS; Digital lovers need not reply or make snotty comments!:p:D
Very simple solution here folks...stick with CD's!!! Problem solved.
:D
Great write up though Joe for the vinyl geeks."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
hearingimpared wrote: »Good advise but I have to comment further. Careful with the humidfier. Vinyl is not only a static magnet but mold just loves to get in the grooves of vinyl and eat away at them like cancer.
Also, Harry Weisfeld of VPI recommends PLAIN windex to clean the platters and plinths on his tables. If you are going to use Windex on your records it has to be the plain old Windex with no additives and a rinse or two with distilled water is a must.
The enzyme cleaners do a very good job on tar and nicotine but they are mostly geared towards mold and other nasties.
100% AGREED!!
Windex is a last resort.
I have low humidity problems here and keeping humidity over 45% takes a humidifier. IF I don't use the humidifier I've got so much static when I walk across the room I get shocked all the time. It's that bad here and I run a ground strap from the stereo stand to discharge static electricity. -
Excellent write up Joe and should be come a sticky.
Yesterday I was starting to pick up S sounds on albums that never sounded that way since getting my new TT.
Started looking things over and sure enough I did not have enough weight on the tone arm.
Imagine my joy when I next listened to an LP with the correct weight.
Thanks Joe !Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
Nice write up Joe. Quality of the vinyl and stylus type are significant factors in sound quality and groove durability. I’ve steam cleaned vinyl in poor condition with good results. However, once damage has been done to the groove you cannot undo it. One can find many old threads on vinyl wear at the vinyl asylum.
George, while you can invest significant amounts in setup tools, they are not essential for proper setup. They do come in handy if you own or try many different tables. MintLp.com produces a highly accurate mirror arc protractor for $110.00. http://www.mintlp.com/ It is highly regarded. They are made for a specific table/arm combination. The WallyTractor is another but at a higher cost. Folks mention a long wait time and Wally being hard to contact. I also have a Hi-Fi News test record that includes a good protractor. One can also download protractors for free (after setting up an account) from the Vinylengine.but does tracking pressure affect VTA?
It can, by compressing the suspension the cantilever is mounted in.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
Excellent write up Joe and should be come a sticky.
+1
Great job. A sticky would be a great aid to those that have difficulty with searches.
Thanks Joe -
+1 on the fact that visual inspection and grading isn't all that reliable. I've got several Blue Note LP's that someone who is a pretty savvy record seller was going to throw away because they looked like they had been in the bottom of the birdcage. Manual on the bench cleaning with my own solution mix, the manual cleaning with Tergitol mix, then full cleaning with MFSL Deep Cleaner, record wash, and then Aquafina final wash and they are dead silent and sound fantastic. You also have to learn to really look at scratches and use reflected light to determine if they are surface scratches or go deep enough to distrupt the stylus and sides of the groove.
Great write-up Joe!DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
Listen you can contact me directly....(send me a PM for contact information). I own a SPJ La Luce, a dynavector XV-1s cartridge, manley stealhead phono. Look these up and you will get a good idea of what I am about. You need a VPI 16.5 and you need a very inexpensive steam cleaner. Steam is absolutely the best with distilled water, but more labor intensive. 16.5 usually does the trick with the right solution. I own over 4000 lps. Give me a call. Typing is a ****.
-
Oh I would also suggest reading and searching at Audioasylum.com or audiogon.com. You will find all your looking for at these two sites. You will find me as well.
Cheers,
Rudolff -
woops I see you have a nice table and the 16.5 very good. Now hear is my experience with the 16.5..... If you use the wrong solutions it will create static and noise. I had this problem for years and went to steam cleaning until I found better solutions. try mobile fidelity solution.
I also have a Universe mounted to a SME IV at the moment. They reside on a Sota....
I tried to paste pics.....no dice on this forum -
another vote for a sticky.Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
george daniel wrote: »Reason I ask,, I get confused ,,lol,,easily,,but does tracking pressure affect VTA? If so,, what do you do?I'm trying to gain more confidence in my tt abilities,, but,,I do not have,nor can afford all the "tools" Mr Fremer has,,I have the thing with lines/alingment that came with the scout,and a digital scale.It gets expensive having to pay someone to set the puppies up,,at least according to the way fremer does it,,then there the thing about left and right channel seperation that he does with a voltmeter.Whew!!!--Maybe I need to move on up the VPI or another line ,,one that has more things that I can do to/with the turntable,,,now theres' a frightining thought.;)
George, the tracking pressure does not affect the VTA, what it does affect, which is similar and IMHO more important than the VTA, is the SRA (Stylus Rake Angle).
VTA is affected by raising or lowering your tonearm at the pivot. SRA will be affected by the "tracking pressure."
Here are some good links for reading and understanding both and the azimuth;
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/1240.html
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/cartbasics.html
http://www.deadwaxcafe.com/vzone/cartalign.asp#vta
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/vta/vta.html
In a nutshell, it is an impossible task to set the VTA & SRA as on every LP these settings will vary due to thickness of the record, the differences in width of the grooves, the angle the engineer used on the cutting lathe which varies from manufacturer to manufacturer etc.
The best one can do is to get an average settings as all records are not created equal and vary from record to record. To accomplish this, take a regular record and placed on the platter, clamp it down if you have a clamp. Then set the VTA & SRA by ear. When the music snaps into focus, voila you've hit the right VTA & SRA. Note the VTA, i.e., angle of the tonearm & the SRA "tracking" pressure" and write it down. Then take a 180 gm pressing and repeat again note the VTA & SRA and write it down. Do the same for a 200 gm record.
Now the whole point of this exercise is that whenever you mount a regular record, 180 gm or 200 gm record, you can change the VTA & SRA to what you've written down and that will give you the closest if not spot on VTA & SRA. Just a side note, back in the '80s when I was completely out of my mind with obsessiveness, I would set the VTA & SRA on EACH RECORD and write the setting on the LP jacket. This will drive you insane. I've found that happy medium by loosing the obsessiveness and doing what I described above and that has produced great results and more listening time then farting around all the time with each record.
As far as azimuth is concerned, as you put it, ("then there the thing about left and right channel seperation that he does with a voltmeter.Whew!!"), you don't need to go as far as Mr. Fremer does with the test tones and VOMs it wouldn't hurt to do so but there is a way to accomplish this and get the azimuth as close as possible to perfect.
To set the azimuth, take a mirror and place it on the platter then set the stylus down on the mirror. Then with a lighted strong magnifying glass look head on at the reflection of the stylus and the stylus itself. If the reflection and the stylus appear to be in a straight line voila you got it right. If the reflection and the stylus appear to be set at angle at the point where the stylus touches the mirror and the reflection is not straight then you need to turn the headshell right or left or in the case of fixed head shells shim your cartridge on the left or right screw to get it to that straight line referred to above. If you azimuth is even close to perfect you hear a balance of sound coming from the right and left speaker. If it is off, on channel will sound louder than the other. -
Rudolff zigray wrote: »Listen you can contact me directly...(send me a PM for contact information). I own a SPJ La Luce, a dynavector XV-1s cartridge, manley stealhead phono. Look these up and you will get a good idea of what I am about. You need a VPI 16.5 and you need a very inexpensive steam cleaner. Steam is absolutely the best with distilled water, but more labor intensive. 16.5 usually does the trick with the right solution. I own over 4000 lps. Give me a call. Typing is a ****.
Rudolff, great stuff but I would as the mods to modify the above post to say, "PM me for my phone number," as it is a bad idea to post your phone number on a public forum unless of course it is your audio business number.
Just a friendly suggestion.:) -
WOW--Joe,,you are on your game--a sincere "tip of the hat" to you and Scomp-- I'm gettin' there with the help of you guys--seriously--Thank ya'll.:)
Some really good stuff here.JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut) -
Great info for us just getting into vinyl:cool:Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
George, glad to be of some assistance. For the sake of simplicity, I've returned to being an audio enthusiast. Joe is my rabid cousin, the audiophile.:D
I use a Feickert for setup. It has come in handy for the different table/arm combinations I've owned/tried. I have two VTA settings, thick and thin. Just something I have learned, some cartridge/stylus combinations are more sensitive to VTA than others.
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
Rudolff zigray wrote: »woops I see you have a nice table and the 16.5 very good. Now hear is my experience with the 16.5..... If you use the wrong solutions it will create static and noise. I had this problem for years and went to steam cleaning until I found better solutions. try mobile fidelity solution.
I also have a Universe mounted to a SME IV at the moment. They reside on a Sota....
I tried to paste pics.....no dice on this forum
Just an FYI. I use a four step process on my 16.5 when I prep my LPs whether new or used.
Step 1, 10 squirts of Vinyl Zyme Gold applied in two revolutions with a 4" foam paint brush. Let it sit for 1 minute.
Step 2, right on top of the VZG I place a line of MFSL Super Deep cleaner scrubbed in with the VPI brush in three revolutions, this removes the grunge lossened by the VZG and lifts mold release compounds. Vacuum the record dry.
Step 3. change the vacuum tube, place a line of MFSL Record Wash and scrub in with a MFSL scrubbing brush two revolutions. Then vacuum clean.
Step 4. change the vacuum tube, place a line of VPI record cleaning solution and scrub in with a different MFSL scrubbing brush two revolutions. Then vacuum clean.
Side one complete. Take record off 16.5 platter, place a second clean cork mat on the platter and place the cleaned side of the LP on the clean mat. Then repeat. This avoids cross contamination.
I've not found the need to do a distilled water rinse as the VPI fluid leaves no residue. I also have the two different Tergitol chemicals but have not needed to crack them open yet because I have gallons of the above name fluids.
AS far as steam cleaning goes, it is indeed a thorough way to clean records however, I am very heavy handed and have scortched records thus ruining them using a steam cleaner so I had to stop using it as I can't seem to become less heavy handed. LOL!
Once the prep is completed I place the record in an MFSL inner sleeve. Before playing these prepped LPs again, I give them a spin on the 16.5 using the VPI solution using the MFSL brush that I marked VPI both sides again using a the different cork mat to clean side two. Before removing it from the 16.5 I give it a good shot from the Zerostat gun and then bring the record over to the turntable. I give the platter of the turntable a good shot with the Zerostat gun place the record on the platter zap it again and I'm good to go.
A bit labor intensive, yes, but my records are pretene and are dead silent while playing. -
SCompRacer wrote: »George, glad to be of some assistance. For the sake of simplicity, I've returned to being an audio enthusiast. Joe is my rabid cousin, the audiophile.:D
I use a Feickert for setup. It has come in handy for the different table/arm combinations I've owned/tried. I have two VTA settings, thick and thin. Just something I have learned, some cartridge/stylus combinations are more sensitive to VTA than others.
I WANT THAT!!! period!
My goodness that tonearm is absolutely beautiful!!! Although my tonearm is no slouch, I WANT THAT TOO!!!:D -
Rich--one look at that turntable and arm,, and the word "simplicity" does not fit. LOL..:)JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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That was a great post Joe. Thank you very much for the time and effort you put into it. Extremely good info.
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Please make this a sticky if possible.
I also find the better turntable/cartridge combinations can move the noise to a different area of the room outside the performance area where it can easily be ignored. Cheaper setups tend to put it right between the listener and the speakers.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
I'll vote "sticky material",,alot of work and experience in Joe's post here,,thanks for sharing this with the community sir.:)JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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Thank you for a very good post, Hearingimpaired. Now, I would really tip my hat to if you can direct me to the place that I can buy an " automatic records cleaner".
I had one back in the 70s and I loved it. It's an upright unit where one would drop the records ( again , upright position ) into an opening slot between the two side pannels of the unit. There was a on/off switch to spin and clean the records .
It did not only clean the records throughoutly but it also helped to reduce static cracks and pops.
