Greece is Really Starting a Conflagration in the Markets

Bedpan

I'm mainly playing in the pink sheets but I have a few $$ socked away in various securities. I've just watched the market decline about 400 points in less than 5 minutes on a wholesale run and a bailout on the Euro. There's been a bit of a rebound over the last minute but what a day. Could Greece really take down the whole of Europe? It sure smells like a panic going on, right now.

shadowofnight

Rot Ro Raggy........

Ricardo

Did you have to bring this topic? I'll take politics and religion over this all day!!!

cstmar01

yeah....

so I like corn on the cob what about you guys?
hows the weather in texas????

nooshinjohn

...Greece is only the beginning if the Euro slides off the edge. In the 1960's MAD(mutually assured destruction) was replaced with MAED (mutually assured economic destruction). The latter doctrine was set in place to link European economies in the hopes of preventing war by making it economically unfeasable to attack one another. This doctrine has run it's course to the point today that a failure of one country has the absolute potential to sink all of them by means of the IMF not being able to support them all. Sadly, the U.S., holds about a 20% stake in the IMF. That means what happens in Europe will likely not STAY in Europe.

Bedpan

I'm watching the markets and it's like taking a trip on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride right now. You can see where tons of brokerages dumped and then rushed back in, made a quick buck and then sold off yet again. Right now, it's down ONLY about 460 points (about 4.3 percent) but it had dipped into the 900 range for a couple of minutes.

Most analysts are blaming it all on Greece, FWIW. It's all very fascinating.

Kex

This (momentary) 9% drop is still the worst decline since the decline of 1987. Just remember, the DOW only represents thirty stocks and things have bounced back nicely since. Tomorrow looks scary if you ask me ... reminds me of March 9, 2009 ... that was a tough pill to swallow. European markets are likely to plunge at the open in reaction, and then New York may plunge again in reaction to the reaction. It's all magic, smoke and mirrors really. Perhaps it's time to start another Steve thread!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10101581.stm

It's easy to forget, but in 2002, when I visited Europe, one Euro was only worth $0.80. Recently, the Euro has been worth more than $1.50. Such a huge swing is about as reasonable as recent housing prices in Los Angeles (meaning NOT).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/13/12/default.stm

dkg999

With all the work the moderators have had to do to keep these types of threads inbounds do you think we might find something more entertaining and less controversial to talk about?

Has anyone got any favorites in the Hooters Calendar Girl contest?

arun1963

It's not just Greece. Its Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc that are waiting in the wings. According to Warren Buffet this is a wait and watch period with strong possibilities of a down turn.

The problem with the EU is central currency, but individual planning and budgeting. So if collectively several countries budgets are out of sync with economic realities = troubled times. The rich nations within the union would pay first and if they collapsed then it's a free fall.

Sometimes the after shock is more devastating than the initial quake. Not saying this is going to happen but yes it is a possibility.

heiney9

Ah Christ.........another useless, polarizing thread..........[puts hands in the air and walks away]

heiney9

Baklava

arun1963

gyros, absolutely the best

hearingimpared

arun1963 wrote: »

gyros, absolutely the best

We have a Greek owned shop down the road from us, they cut the meat for the gyros right off the spit and pack the pita with it and their Tsatsiki Sauce is the best I've ever tasted. We always ask for extra sauce. They speak English but you gotta be on your toes.



BTW Mike, I like Greek!:eek::D

nooshinjohn

arun1963 wrote: »

gyros, absolutely the best

Damnit!!! I went to Subway, and now I am hungry all over again.:D

F1nut

I fail to see why this thread is a problem, nor is it polarizing.

More pie, please.

nooshinjohn

She has nice olives...

shack

The sky is falling...the sky is falling...

Face

What a bunch of malakas.

Jstas

Keiko wrote: »

My hobbies are Greek food and Greek women.

which one is hairier?

nooshinjohn

CNBC is reporting the drop was caused by a guy with fat fingers and that the whole thing was a mistake.:eek:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches.aspx?post=1752222&_blg=1,1751806

polkatese

"...I thought I saw a nippykat"

Nice Pie Mike!

F1nut

Mike, you have outdone yourself.

Jetmaker737

Keiko wrote: »

Coming right up, Jesse.

That's funny... if you notice, she's going down :cool:

greyford1979

Thanks for the pictures:rolleyes:...I was scrolling through the post right when my fiance walked in and she thought I was on a **** site:eek: LMAO Altho the second one does kinda look like her:p

Kex

Bedpan wrote: »

... Could Greece really take down the whole of Europe? ...

I doubt it. The GDP of Greece in USD is estimated by the IMF at about $330 billion. The GDP of the E.U. is estimated at well over $16 trillion. Of the "risky" countries, Ireland and Portugal have a smaller economy even than Greece, but Italy and Spain are obviously much larger (over $2 trillion and $1.5 trillion respectively). Obviously, if they all "failed" together, that might be a bit of a problem.

By comparison, the GDP of Greece in USD is still equivalent to a state such as Massachusetts, or Washington. Only California has a larger GSP than the GDP of Spain. No U.S. state has a greater GSP than the GDP of Italy (although the $/€ exchange rate could soon alter that).

Also, although this may look bad, the GDP per capita in Greece is actually quite healthy: not far behind countries that are considered wealthy, such as France, Germany, the United Kingdom, Finland and even Japan. In fact, of all the countries being described as "risky" right now, because of a high debt/GDP ratio, only Portugal earns less per capita than Israel. All of the others, including Greece and Ireland, earn more. The situation is far from dire IMO, and like the "big banks", could improve dramatically unexpectedly.

The good news is that a Euro falling from stupidly lofty heights (where it has been for the past five years or so IMO) will strengthen the Dollar, and should lower oil prices for all of us. It will also make our GDP and state GSP look so much better in comparison to European countries so we can pat ourselves on the back for a job well done, even if we don't have any more money than before.

greyford1979

xcapri79 wrote: »

Tell her you were reading the articles.

She did think the second one was really hot tho:eek:

Bedpan

Kex wrote: »

I doubt it. The GDP of Greece in USD is estimated by the IMF at about $330 billion. The GDP of the E.U. is estimated at well over $16 trillion. Of the "risky" countries, Ireland and Portugal have a smaller economy even than Greece, but Italy and Spain are obviously much larger (over $2 trillion and $1.5 trillion respectively). Obviously, if they all "failed" together, that might be a bit of a problem.

By comparison, the GDP of Greece in USD is still equivalent to a state such as Massachusetts, or Washington. Only California has a larger GSP than the GDP of Spain. No U.S. state has a greater GSP than the GDP of Italy (although the $/€ exchange rate could soon alter that).

Also, although this may look bad, the GDP per capita in Greece is actually quite healthy: not far behind countries that are considered wealthy, such as France, Germany, the United Kingdom, Finland and even Japan. In fact, of all the countries being described as "risky" right now, because of a high debt/GDP ratio, only Portugal earns less per capita than Israel. All of the others, including Greece and Ireland, earn more. The situation is far from dire IMO, and like the "big banks", could improve dramatically unexpectedly.

The good news is that a Euro falling from stupidly lofty heights (where it has been for the past five years or so IMO) will strengthen the Dollar, and should lower oil prices for all of us. It will also make our GDP and state GSP look so much better in comparison to European countries so we can pat ourselves on the back for a job well done, even if we don't have any more money than before.

I guess today's panic indicates that we have indeed moved into the early stages of the liquidity crises phase of this EU fiat banking system collapse.

All these EU countries hold each others debt, there is no lender of last resort, and there is no way to devalue the currency.

It is like a massive tug of war between the surplus nations and the deficit nations, with the latter about to bring down this entire economic experiment very soon.

The bailout of Greece is really a bailout of France, since the French banks hold around 1/3 of the Greeks sovereign paper.

These banks could not absorb a default of this magnitude--most if not all the banks would be instantaneously insolvent themselves.

A real dilemma if there ever was one.

I have a chart somewhere that shows the incestuous nature of the sovereign debt paper held by all these zombie countries.

kevhed72

I also heard a trader placing a large sell order for Proctor and Gamble accidentally hit B to denote "billion" shares, where he intended to hit M to denote million(s)....which also contributed to the huge drop. Analysts are speculating the large unintended sell-out of this historically solid - company threw everyone into a panic.

As far a Greece goes, I love Gyros, so we should bail them out also. :rolleyes:

George Grand

The Greek women are the most desirable looking things in the world, and the Cretan women are at the top of THAT heap.

Kex

Bedpan wrote: »

... A real dilemma if there ever was one. ...

I seldom read quite so much nonsense in such a condensed form, but since I still suspect you are nothing more than a troll, Mr. Toilet, and therefore, you are the "real dilemma if there ever was one", I will decline to comment further.

P.S. In honor of your new signature, I will modify my own.
P.P.S. Are you possibly related to the hitherto beloved Seafart of Spearker fame?

Kex

George Grand wrote: »

The Greek women are the most desirable looking things in the world, and the Cretan women are at the top of THAT heap.

So true, so true ...