Considering a new amp, how many watts?

nduitch

I measured the input at the speaker terminals and my average listening level uses 1.7 watts, I couldn't believe it. The 1a's say something like 25-500 watts. I can't even imagine how loud it would be with 100 watts, let alone 500. Why is this much power needed?

TouchOfEvil

As long as it's a quality amp the more power usually results in a cleaner more refined sound from what i have heard. Also your bass will fill out and go much lower.

nooshinjohn

Watts (power) is not so much about volume as it is for clarity. I remember reading somewhere that it took about 2400 watts to accurately reproduce the sound made by a pair of scissors cutting a piece of paper. Volume is needed to achieve lifelike sound, but most of the extra power is used for transcient moments when extra power is needed. Power equals clarity over volume.

BottomFeeder

Cathy? Where aaaaaaarrrrrre yoooooouuuuu?

thor098

"2400 watts to accurately reproduce the sound made by a pair of scissors cutting a piece of paper" Wow, does that make some sense. I've been slowly upgrading my system and it seems that I've past a threshold where I hear things in the music that I've never heard before - like the breaths taken on air instruments or the slightest slide of fingers on guitar strings. Currently running an Adcom 545 with a Marantz 2270 as the pre-amp.

reeltrouble1

your word of the day is "transients" ok its plural, but it is a word.

RT1--tidbit.....Strength is the longest word in the English language with one vowel.

madmax

Word I've heard is 200 watts per channel for starters.
madmax

polkatese

madmax wrote: »

Word I've heard is 200 watts per channel for starters.
madmax

....at 8 ohms and DOUBLE UP to 400 watts at 4 ohms, and not a watt less. Any starter Manly amps can do that.

reeltrouble1

second word of the day is "clipping" which is what happens to the transients if you do not have enough current power...oh gosh, "current" is a third word, well, carry on.

RT1---Dr. WattSon I presume.

billbillw

I'm a firm believer in 200+watt amps for large speakers. That is, unless they are super efficient designs (>98dB efficient).

Heck, I've got 75 watts of NAD PE power (rated for +6dB dynamic headroom) for my little bookshelf speakers on my computer rig.

heiney9

I have 30 wpc of pure Class A, single ended goodness. I have yet to really find the limits running my 1C's. I would choose this over any middle of the road mass produced 100-200 wpc amp any time.

H9

P.s. I have 12wpc of push/pull 6V6 tube power running the 5B's in my office rig.............Sublime!

jimsvm

I noticed a very nice change to the VMs after adding the Sunfire 200x5. The biggest surprise was the old RT10s. They really came alive.ARV is my third pio 9040.It better be my last.

cfrizz

BottomFeeder wrote: »

Cathy? Where aaaaaaarrrrrre yoooooouuuuu?

I'm right here BF, no need to shout!:p

Having a powerful amplifier ensures that the speakers will operate to thier FULL potential, and the benefit is NOT with greater volume.

You will get greater clarity, better seperation of instruments, clearer vocals, better bass.

It's really cool when you listen to a song you THINK you know very well, but are now suddenly hearing an instrument clearly that you didn't know was there.

I always recommend getting at least a 200wpc at 8ohm amp. This much power will bring out the best in just about every speaker.

Is it cheap? No. But it may well be the last time you have to ever buy an amplifier, since you can keep it through all other upgrades & know that you have enough power for future speaker upgrades no matter what they are.

It's better to do it ONCE & do it RIGHT the first time. It is also better to have it and not need it rather than need it & not have it.

reeltrouble1

[QUOTE=cfrizz;1334009 It is better to have it and not need it rather than need it & not have it.[/QUOTE]

So Adam said to Eve, true ManCave Stuff.

WattsUp Doc.

So we have transient, clip, current, add distortion. All things to know about WattsUp.

RT1

madmax

I also find that amps in the 100wpc range are fairly dangerous. Powerful enough for the clipping to cause damage while not enough power for the loudness you want. Bad combination. 30 watts you can clip all day without damage, 200 watts and you get to where you can always achieve the loudness you want before clipping. 1000+ watts solves any chance of being underpowered.

heiney9

madmax wrote: »

30 watts you can clip all day without damage,

Please explain; as watts and watts alone don;t determine clipping point.

HH9

polkatese

My AIWA boombox stated that it has a total wattage peak of a whooping 1200 watts.

PerfectCreature

Yeah I had a sony bookshelf that stated it was 2200 watts of power...yep it sounds like crap and doesn't touch how loud and clear my monitor 50s sound on just a mere 50 watts....
I cannot wait till my HK arrives on my door step....120 watts of clean high current power here i come!
Yeah....most times watts are just head room... I know the monitor 50s are rated for 150 watts....but probably could take 200 or so if the watts were clean and had little distortion just fine.
I know I have subwoofers in my car and they said only 350 watts each...but I power them with a class A rockford fosgate amp at 500 watts each and they sound just fine with absolutely no distortion at high volumes... now, I am sure if I had a class D amp...with 150...it would clip and my subs would be ruined eventhough my subs said they could handle 350...
Kinda get it?

reeltrouble1

Watts On Watts Off Watts Up Danielson.

Who said dat der ampleeefier need dem 200 Watts, shore dun meeen it gonna sound all
perttie like dat Daisy Duke in dem short shorts.

Watts Watts got to have some, get me them Watts, 200 Watts of bad sound, sounds bad. ya think?? I gotta Pyle Pro amp that has 3000 watts and I got TWO of Them.....woohoooo I'm bad, got Watts, I'm bad, got Watts, I'm bad, got Watts.....wait a minute am I the only singing this tune..........................

RT1

nooshinjohn

^^^ I need some of watt you have been smoking bro!

camp21178

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Watts (power) is not so much about volume as it is for clarity. I remember reading somewhere that it took about 2400 watts to accurately reproduce the sound made by a pair of scissors cutting a piece of paper. Volume is needed to achieve lifelike sound, but most of the extra power is used for transcient moments when extra power is needed. Power equals clarity over volume.

I actually read this in the old Stereo Review magazine. It was a Hollywood sound editor that used multiple amps totalling 2400 watts to reproduce that sound.

bikezappa

nduitch wrote: »

I measured the input at the speaker terminals and my average listening level uses 1.7 watts, I couldn't believe it. The 1a's say something like 25-500 watts. I can't even imagine how loud it would be with 100 watts, let alone 500. Why is this much power needed?

I also did this test and was surprised at the low wattage and load sound relationship. I think if you put a oscillascope across the speaker terminals to measure voltage you would see much larger spikes of voltage and therefore wattage. The average watts measured with a volt meter can be small but the voltage spikes maybe large depending on the music played.

Another test you can do is input the amplifier with a signal generator. The signal generator will give you a constant voltage at a constant frequency with no spikes. Now measure the loudness with your sound meter and relate the sound level in db to watts. If you don't have or can't afford a signal generator use white noise as a sound source. White noise is the stuff you hear in between FM stations and should be free of large musical spikes. With the white noise you can compare and relate the sound level in your room in db with wattage to the speakers.\

Have a blast.

BottomFeeder

"It is also better to have it and not need it rather than need it & not have it."[/QUOTE]

Uhm, uhm, UHM! Another great life maxim from cfrizz!

Kex

BottomFeeder wrote: »

"It is also better to have it and not need it rather than need it & not have it."

Uhm, uhm, UHM! Another great life maxim from cfrizz!

Actually, I have heard this statement used in an entirely different context. IIRC, it was from this lady friend I once knew who was hesitating about going ahead with a transgender operation. That's exactly what she would say to us on the days when she thought she was going to go ahead with the operation (It's better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it, right?).

In the end, I think she decided that separates were always better, so she got a d!ldo instead: she uses that when she needs it, and kept the integrated the way it was to begin with (no surgigcal operation). :eek:

Sorry for the derail ...:o

cfrizz

nooshinjohn wrote: »

^^^ I need some of watt you have been smoking bro!

+10 on that!:D

Teddy, thanks for the chuckle this morning, now go sober up!;):eek::D

Willow

With all this said, I went from 3 mono blocks @200w each to (2 Marantz and 1outlaw) to a 5x125 Rotel amp. I much prefer the sound of the Rotel. I have pushed that bugger a couple times and have yet to hate the sound/cause any damage. Just some other stuff for you to consider.

Cpyder

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Watts (power) is not so much about volume as it is for clarity. I remember reading somewhere that it took about 2400 watts to accurately reproduce the sound made by a pair of scissors cutting a piece of paper. Volume is needed to achieve lifelike sound, but most of the extra power is used for transcient moments when extra power is needed. Power equals clarity over volume.

Can you find any online sources? I'd like to read more about this.

tcrossma

I like my Pass X-150 (150 watts @ 8ohms) better than the B&K 200.5 (200 watts @ 8ohms) that I used to have. Watts are not everything. Quality matters more.

Kex

Willow wrote: »

With all this said, I went from 3 mono blocks @200w each to (2 Marantz and 1outlaw) to a 5x125 Rotel amp. I much prefer the sound of the Rotel. I have pushed that bugger a couple times and have yet to hate the sound/cause any damage. Just some other stuff for you to consider.

Thank you for that excellent contribution ... and RT1 has left a few gems of wisdom in his cryptic posts as well ... which unfortunately means that some may not take the time to take them seriously.

If there's one thing that seems to stand out in this debate for me, it is that the posted specifications of an amplifier do not really tell you anything you absolutely need to know, or how much you are going to like it, or if it's going to be powerful enough or not to do what you anticipated when you first decided to get it. The numbers are just numbers IMO, and it's a bit like choosing a new car from the brochure, instead of a test drive.

I strongly recommend to anyone that genuinely wants to experiment with this to get their hands on a JoLida hybrid integrated 1301, rated at just 30w/ch, and see what they think. Borrow it or buy it, but try it if you can ...

http://www.jolida.com/index.php?p=products&category=1&model=26

Fongolio

I live in an apartment and rarely have opportunity to really crank the tunes. In my quest for more detailed sound I recently went from a Carver TFM-25 (225 wpc @ 8 ohms) to a Carver TFM-45 (375 wpc @ 8 ohms). The difference was exactly what I was looking for: more clarity, better transients, excellent low level bass, more articulate mid-range. The differences are subtle but I can plainly hear them. I will never crank this system past 12 o'clock on the volume dial but what I've gained at low volumes was worth the extra cash.

cfrizz

Kex wrote: »

...If there's one thing that seems to stand out in this debate for me, it is that the posted specifications of an amplifier do not really tell you anything you absolutely need to know, or how much you are going to like it, or if it's going to be powerful enough or not to do what you anticipated when you first decided to get it. The numbers are just numbers IMO, and it's a bit like choosing a new car from the brochure, instead of a test drive.

Of course this is true. All we can do is give examples of our own various knowledge and experience & then it is up to the OP to decide for themselves which is the way they want to go & how much money they wish to put into it to HOPEFULLY get the results they are looking for.

It will also be up to the OP own ears as to whether or not they like the new sound they are hearing from thier system.