RT and seperates

organ · May 2003

Yesterday I had about 2 hours to kill before studying and decided to bring my 800i to the front and hooked them up to my seperates. The sound was incredible. I had no idea my 800i's could sound this good. I had so much fun listening to my music full blast without fatique. When I was powering them with my Oink, the tweeters would sound more harsh at loud levels, but the NAD made them sound so good. They played deeper, louder and cleaner than the last time I heard them. The soundstage kicked serious booty too!

So don't think that only the LSi's deserve sepereates. The RT series will greatly benifit from good amps. If you own some RT's and want to upgrade without going LSi, get an external amp and you'll be surprised.

Maurice

VR3 · May 2003

THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YALL!!!! RT's on seperate RULE! Adcom brings em to life too, WAY better highs, better lows, and like you said! A KILLER SOUNDSTAGE! It even makes my RT35i sing! Hello, Invest in a seperate amp or 2! Adcom, AMC, NAD! They make alot of difference in the speaker, night and day really!

faster100 · May 2003

Now you sound like Mantis, All respect Dan LOL

But heheh funny Mx

TroyD · May 2003

Nearly any speaker can benefit from separates, IMO.

BDT

danger boy · May 2003

Originally posted by TroyD
Nearly any speaker can benefit from separates, IMO.

BDT

except Bose

Tour2ma · May 2003

WAAAAAAAAAAA...

There's good bashing and bad bashing... db, that was good bashing...

joe logston · May 2003

a good amp and pre amp will make the rt line sing, i know my rt-7 sound so good with my aragons its a sin.

faster100 · May 2003

Originally posted by ATCVenom
RT's got that magic. All you need is a good pair of seperates, and about 8-10 feet of parting distance.....

RT's take on a whole new light.... much better in my opinion, than the RTi line.

are we talking more vintage RT then the last few years, Like rt55
rt15, and the such, becuase i had a whole setup of the older line, maybe they called it R or RT, crap i can't keep up.. But i love the rti line,

So what would be better ATC, between the 2 lines?? rt/rti

fireshoes · May 2003

Bose does indeed sound better on seperates. I sold this dude an Adcom 125 x 5 amp for an AM15 once. It was the best Bose I've ever heard. It sounded like it had a sub, only without any low end.

VR3 · May 2003

ATC means -

RT (RTxxxi)
RTi(RTiXXX)

Airplay355 · May 2003

why does the rt line sound better then the rti line? are there any big differences? cuz the only thing i noticed that was changed was the grill and logo lol

faster100 · May 2003

So he's trying to say, in his opinion the RTxxi sound better then the rti's, i didn't see that they were better..I like the new ones looks and sound , I had the rt55i's, cs400i, cs245, and r10's..

VR3 · May 2003

rtixx grills look like styrofoam. the new tweet rocks! that new logo is tight...

faster100 · May 2003

I like the new grills, different though, the new wood exterior, and the logo.. The old ones look like plastic with that vinyl covering,, the grill on the new subs is not that "styrofoam" stuff though

jkratzer · May 2003

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
rtixx grills look like styrofoam. the new tweet rocks! that new logo is tight...

What is with this styrofoam cr*p. The RTi grills are hot! I think Vr3MxStyler2K3 has grill envy.

mantis · May 2003

It's a matter of opnion of what you drive your loved speakers with......

If you love your speakers and want them to sound there best, the best thing to do si find what sounds the best with them.SOmetimes it could be a high end receiver.The Denon avr5803 would be super kiler with rt series speakers.I feel Denon and Rt is a perfect match.The avr5803 gives you more current and still has the same basic tone that all the other Denons do.

Seperates are also a way to go,but in my opnion once you cross over into higher end,it might be time to think about better speakers.Thats how I think,you don't have to agree with that at all as alot of you don't.

Rt series are great speakers.I owned many of them and thought for the money they where the best I could do.

Your system your way.My thinking is now on the seperates...if better electronics sound better on rt series speakers,then what would better speakers sound like on your seperates?????

TonyPTX · May 2003

I second Dan's opinion here. Granted seperates do sound better, the weak link here IMHO was the orignal source, the Onk AVR. I can honestly speak from experience here as I once was an Onk owner (SR600) before I upgraded to the new Rotel AVR. I didn't change anything other than the AVR. My RTi70's which sound far less harsher than my RT35i's, immediately toned down and the brightness, while still there compared to say some LSi's, stepped down a notch from the Onk's "IN YOUR FACE!!" attitude.

organ · May 2003

I don't mind the grilles on the new RTi's. They're more see through than the RTxxxi.

mantis,
I agree that when you're going seperates you need higher end speakers but if I didn't have the LSi I'd still be super happy having the 800i's and NAD combo.

Venom,
You nailed it about the LSi and RT differences. I was at the "Metal Gods Tour 2003" in April and the RT's sound closer to a metal concert than the LSi. They have that raw energy, weight, etc like you mentioned.
IMO, the LSi is much better because they have more air, clarity, presence, etc. But when I really feel like head banging hard, the RT's sound great.

Maurice

Tour2ma · May 2003

Originally posted by mantis
It's a matter of opnion of what you drive your loved speakers with...... SOmetimes it could be a high end receiver. Seperates are also a way to go,but in my opnion once you cross over into higher end,it might be time to think about better speakers.Thats how I think,you don't have to agree with that at all as alot of you don't.

mantis,
I certainly don't mind agreeing to disagree, but I think we should disagree first, and beyond our distinct preferences for integrated vs. separates, I don't think we really do here.

organ,
All comes back to the weakest link approach to upgrading. If clean power is the current (no pun intended) issue, tend to it. Then if shortcomings begin to show in another piece, you've got your next in line, and on and on and... But in the meantime you are getting all the performance you can out of your limiting piece.

I would not assume an automatic need for any next step. This hobby is subjective enough without psycho-acoustically preconditioning ourselves to be disappointed somehow by anticipated new limitations.

mantis · May 2003

again.....

It's all a matter of opnion.The question you gotta ask yourself is this.......What do I want to drive them with?Why?

When is enough enough?

Does anyone believe in maxing out the caliber of the speaker and feel the need to move forward?

So my question is this.......at what point do you upgrade the speakers?

TonyPTX · May 2003

Originally posted by mantis
So my question is this.......at what point do you upgrade the speakers?

when they start buzzing and the rubber/foam surround is disconnected from the frame?

LOL

seriously, it's a tough question. There is no right answer or wrong answer. Usually the quest for "upgrades" stops when you stop looking at new gear. If you're always in your local HiFi shop to check out the new gear and give it a test run, you'll always hear something better making you feel like what you have is inferior. So my advice...

STAY OUT OF THE HiFi SHOPS. You'll be happier this way.

Tony

polkatese · May 2003

Originally posted by TonyPTX
So my advice...

STAY OUT OF THE HiFi SHOPS. You'll be happier this way.

Tony

That's it! no more strolling into one and "auditioning"...

SPEAKER7 · May 2003

no more audio magazine subscriptions....no more surfing on the audio sites except for Polk .....and have friends who doesn't like stereos.....etc......

Tour2ma · May 2003

Dan,
I sincerely do not understand one of your questions, Does anyone believe in maxing out the caliber of the speaker and feel the need to move forward? As for the rest

Agree that we are stating opinions here. In amp selection, ever since my first Carver the answer to your first question for me has been high current capability. IMO there is no substitute for it in a system. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Buy all you can afford from whichever manufacturer you prefer.

Your second question, when is enough enough is the hard one I have had, as I suspect many here have had, moments when we listen to our rig and are all smiles, inside and out. My moments have lasted as short as a day and as long as a decade. So far something has happened every time to reawaken the green-eyed audio beast within me. Things that have rung the bell over the past couple of decades vary from a new technology ala CDs, a new interest in classical musical, a new entertainment approach like HT, and a renewed passion for an old technology, vinyl. And least I forget, joining Club Polk Its kind of looking like a two-alarm right now with SACD and HDTV both making noise here.

As for the speaker upgrade timing, simple answer is when the beast focuses on the speakers. I believe I have him tamed is this area now (famous last words) and it only took four different pairs of speakers to do it. Better answer may be when the dissatisfaction level intersects with the available funds level in the light of the knowledge that there is something better out there.

goingganzo · May 2003

if seperates improve the rt line as much as yousay i cant wait for my amp.

mantis · May 2003

TonyPTX,

when they start buzzing and the rubber/foam surround is disconnected from the frame? LOL

waaaaaaaaaaaaaa thats funny you caught me off guard there.

It is a tuff question I ask.And I agee with there no right or wrong answer.It's a matter of opnion when..............
I do this for a living so upgrade fever is consistant.Even if I didn't do it for a living,it still would be.Good point you make.

Tour2ma,
great responce.I had to read it twice.

I sincerely do not understand one of your questions, Does anyone believe in maxing out the caliber of the speaker and feel the need to move forward?

What I mean here is I feel there are levels of speakers that go with levels of electronics.If you haven't read me talking about it,I have a mating theory.I feel that the best way to experince all your products to there fullest potental,you have to get them all working in harmony.

Think about the speakers for a minute.Lets just use the rt800's for an example.They are 799.99.Nice sounding speakers.They are easy to drive.Now alot of good receivers will make them sing,some will sound horrible.I feel once you enter into a higher end receiver like the Denon avr3803 or going as far as the Denon avr4802R would be Maxed out for these speakers.At this level of electroincs,you can now benefit from better speakers.This is talking about a dual purpose system.Home Theater and music.

Now if your buying the rt800's just for music,then a receiver might not be your first choice.Today there isn't many receivers that are in my opnion great just for 2 channel,stereo non home theater.There are however alot of great seperates and intergraded at low costs to get the job done.Rotel had great entry level amps and preamps/intergraded.I have mixed feeling here......Owning speakers like Totem,Dynaudio audience,Lsi might be the next logical choice.

Now using those rt800's with Audio research,Krell,Classe,Mark Levinston,MacIntosh and the rest of the high end seperates I feel is a total waste.Electronics of this caliber sound so much better driving speakers in there own respected class.

Now thats just the amp and speaker side of it.I also feel wire and sources are just as Important.Alot of people skimp out here.I don't know why but alot feel wire and sources aren't as Important.Persoanlly I feel everything needs to works as one.The weakest link theory I believe you can feel here.I believe in it.
As I keep repeating,I look at the whole system.As a system working to reproduce sound.
The room your going to use is a huge factor.I won't go on with that as it's another topic(but totally relevant).

Let me say this....we all have our opnions on how and why to build our systems.Experience has taught me what it has,and I'm sure it did you all of you.There really isn't a right and wrong answer here,only opnions.

I have seen wacky stuff in my time(to me that is)like using a B&K receiver to power a bose speaker package.Totally mismatched in my opnion but the owner liked it...who am I to judge......
I also saw a guy buy Wilson Audio speakers and try to drive them with a Integra home theater receiver The DTR6.2 of all choices.He had a B&W centerchannel,SUB and Def Tech rears......go figure that one out.He spent more on the mains then the entire rest of the system including wire.Including the TV,he bought a Pioneer Elite Pro720.

The rt series by polk is a really good mid level line.How you use them is your bussiness.I owned them and found they are great theater speakers,but lacked the musical qualities I was looking for.I tried them on B&K seperates and rotel seperates.They did sound better but still not the level I was looking for.When I purchased Lsi and ran them off the same electroincs,they did however sadisfy.

joe logston · May 2003

high current amps need a matching pre amp, to be effective, plus speaker set and software, plus you add a couple stereo subs, are what makes my rt-7 sing i know thats my opinion only, but to me that works. i know myself by using a high current amp and matching pre-amp give you all the inter details, and deeper wider sound stage that some software have recorded on them, not all, that you cant get with a receiver. it takes all of above plus some, to reach audio high that comes one in a while.
the longer you are in audio the more you want that high, the more you tweek the more you want to tweek. seems like it never ends.

thats what audio about

joe logston · May 2003

about the rt-7, they mite have been a misstake, because they are best i have heard (my opinion), i been around audio for over 20yrs heard most high end speakers not all, for what they are a cheap polk speaker, they are amazing, the more i tweek and play with them the better they sound and with two psw-650 subs as a stereo pair tweeking them all togetter, i can get a perfect up and down frequency range with the 15" audiosource sub adds the bottem octive, it get sinfull. ( my opinion)
if you see a pair for sell grab them fast

Dr. Spec · May 2003

Really great post, Dan.

Your definite value to the forum is your real world experience with a lot of different gear and how they interact and sound together.

I really do believe there is something to the concept of balancing and matching quality/price level of gear and you have really helped me balance my system out with the Denon 3803 and the Monster wiring being a simply great match for my RT series speaks.

My system has never sounded/looked better and I can thank you for helping me make an educated upgrade decision.

Doc

joe logston · May 2003

about freqnency range, all good live music haves all up and down frequency range, and to get that range you got to have a sub or subs, i found out that the vary low range helps the highs & meds wend its been blended right with a flat frequency, with good recorded solfware and speakers focused right, you will get that audio heaven. the rt-7 will not acheive it by its self, so i tweeked and added to do that, for the price of them they are one of the best out there in my opinion.

mantis · May 2003

joe logston,
very well put.

the longer you are in audio the more you want that high, the more you tweek the more you want to tweek. seems like it never ends.

This is perfect.

Dr. Spec,
You are so very welcome.I feel it's learned over time trail and error.Your system is becoming really tight.A few tweaks here and there and you'll have pefect Harmony.

Mantis

RT and seperates

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