New Alpine amps

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  • JoshParsons84
    JoshParsons84 Posts: 565
    edited April 2010
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    If you indeed get a SR 12" then I would recommend gettin the 1000. I would think it would also depend on how loud you want your sub to be. I guess the 600 would be enough for subs I've always just heard 1000 watt amps
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited April 2010
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    Well I'm a SQ-guy, so I would want the sub to "fill in" the sub-bass below 50hz naturally. ;)
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • arun1963
    arun1963 Posts: 1,797
    edited April 2010
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    I'd take the headroom too, for the times I wanted to really crank it. Everyone here is chasing SQ so you'll fit right in. 600 will be great, just that 1K would be slightly better. Budget of course is another issue.
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited April 2010
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    Its amazing how small these new amps are from most of the manufacturers. You can fit them damn near anywhere, and with cars coming with less places to mount stuff these days, its a god-send for installers.

    I'm still old school with my 23" long 125x2 t8002 and 23" long 50x4 T8004 :)
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • dudeinaroom
    dudeinaroom Posts: 3,609
    edited April 2010
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    I wanna know why every one needs 1000+ watts. I remember back in the day 200 watts and you could not even sit in the car. I guess in all fairness, subs used to be rated in the low/mid 90 to low 100db range at 1 watt an now they are in the mid 80's so I guess I can see why. I miss the days of bliss, 2 12"CV's in a ported box with 100w each and you could hear it for a half mile or more. Had to grow up an find that sound is also suposed to have quality. Does anyone make efficient subs any more, I need a little bottom end int the family van but wanna use my old rt2200to drive it. sorry for the thread jack.
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited April 2010
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    You're right. ;) I've used Alpine MRP-M650 'til now - this also produces 600w rms, thought it was a lot of energy!
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited April 2010
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    dudeinaroom wrote: »
    I wanna know why every one needs 1000+ watts. I remember back in the day 200 watts and you could not even sit in the car. I guess in all fairness, subs used to be rated in the low/mid 90 to low 100db range at 1 watt an now they are in the mid 80's so I guess I can see why. I miss the days of bliss, 2 12"CV's in a ported box with 100w each and you could hear it for a half mile or more. Had to grow up an find that sound is also suposed to have quality. Does anyone make efficient subs any more, I need a little bottom end int the family van but wanna use my old rt2200to drive it. sorry for the thread jack.

    200w, pfft. I need 4000w to even hear...or maybe i cant hear because ive had 4000w...:o

    5313370328_large.jpg

    To answer your question, I would say its the same reason why cars are coming out lighter and faster than they were in years past. Everyone wants excess.

    Besides the fact I can buy a 750 watt amp for what you could buy a 200 watt amp for back in the day, and mines going to be smaller, have better protection, and have a built in crossover.
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited April 2010
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    Got an interesting package in the mailbox yesterday...

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    Sexy little thing! I'm gonna install it tomorrow. :D
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited April 2010
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    That's awesome! You gonna send one my way? I would be happy with that! :D
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited April 2010
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    Yeah... uh, no, don't think I have any money left! :D
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • JoshParsons84
    JoshParsons84 Posts: 565
    edited April 2010
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    Congrats man!! They truly are fantastic amps and IMO completely set up for SQ. 150 watts per channel lemme tell ya you'll never need another and you'll be able to put whatever you want on it. My 100 watter will absolutely ring your freakin' ears!
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited May 2010
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    Yeah, all wired up and it sounds gooood. :D

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    Also made new plate in the bottom (for amps only) :)
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • Installer4life
    Installer4life Posts: 256
    edited May 2010
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    Thats not duct tape on the ground wire is it? Heat shrink available at FRY's electronics many sizes and colors.
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited May 2010
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    Sorry we don't have FRY in Norway I think. ;) But anyways, there's been a slight change of plans. Turns out this amp doesn't satisfy me, it gave a little too intense tone overall. Especially the mids from 1 to 2khz became very harsh and my ears bleed with this with a little too much volume...

    So I sold the PDX today, lost some money but not much, and now I'm gonna go oldschool class AB: Adcom GFA 5475

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    This is a pretty rare thing here in Norway. What do you guys think?
    Anybody here ever used one like this? Supposed to be VERY good...

    Pickin' this badboy up on Sunday. :)
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • Installer4life
    Installer4life Posts: 256
    edited May 2010
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    IF I remember correctly that amp has a preamp with it. It doesn't have standard RCA inputs at the amp itself. You run your signal to the preamp then DIN cables to the amp. If this is corrrect make sure you get all the parts. I installed a couple of these in its day 10 or so years ago and they were nice. I would go with the JL HD amps instead of the PDX and the Adcom
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  • arun1963
    arun1963 Posts: 1,797
    edited May 2010
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    TakeTheTime wrote: »
    Turns out this amp doesn't satisfy me, it gave a little too intense tone overall. Especially the mids from 1 to 2khz became very harsh and my ears bleed with this with a little too much volume...So I sold the PDX today, lost some money but not much, and now I'm gonna go oldschool class AB: Adcom GFA 5475

    You should have just turned the gains down on the pdx. More power would play your entire sound range (20-20Kz), louder. Your 2-3khz range was an issue on lower power as well, perhaps just lesser of a problem. The pdx is not making this range brighter. More power is just highlighting the existing problem.
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited May 2010
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    Installer4life wrote: »
    IF I remember correctly that amp has a preamp with it. It doesn't have standard RCA inputs at the amp itself. You run your signal to the preamp then DIN cables to the amp. If this is corrrect make sure you get all the parts. I installed a couple of these in its day 10 or so years ago and they were nice. I would go with the JL HD amps instead of the PDX and the Adcom

    Yeah, I get all I need in addition. It's a driver and some "balanced" cables...
    But hey dude, no point in suggesting JL HD amps when I already have a deal. ;)
    arun1963 wrote: »
    You should have just turned the gains down on the pdx. More power would play your entire sound range (20-20Kz), louder. Your 2-3khz range was an issue on lower power as well, perhaps just lesser of a problem. The pdx is not making this range brighter. More power is just highlighting the existing problem.

    Yeah, the gains on all channels were all set to minimum on the four channels.
    Didn't help, I was told this intense midrange was an issue on digital amps...
    I tried tuning it down, and the only thing I could do with my Alpine 9855r
    was to set cross over to 40hz - 800hz for midbass and 3.5khz - for tweeter,
    THEN i wouldn't hear the irritating frequencies, but I couldn't have it like that. ;)
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited May 2010
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    arun1963 wrote: »
    Your 2-3khz range was an issue on lower power as well, perhaps just lesser of a problem.

    No I didn't have this problem with my Alpine MRP-F200 which is class AB. :rolleyes:
    I have to disagree with you that amps doesn't "sound different" - they really do!
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • arun1963
    arun1963 Posts: 1,797
    edited May 2010
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    ok ;)
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  • Installer4life
    Installer4life Posts: 256
    edited May 2010
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    If you decide you do not like your deal the HD amps from JL audio have a warmer sound than the PDX. Might take care of your problem..
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited May 2010
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    Installer4life wrote: »
    If you decide you do not like your deal the HD amps from JL audio have a warmer sound than the PDX. Might take care of your problem..

    Okey, I'll think about it. Though I'm supposed to pick up the Adcom amp tomorrow.
    I think it's gonna be a great one, although this amp I'm buying is almost 20 years old. ;)
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited May 2010
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    TakeTheTime wrote: »
    No I didn't have this problem with my Alpine MRP-F200 which is class AB. :rolleyes:
    I have to disagree with you that amps doesn't "sound different" - they really do!

    Then collect your $10k
    http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited May 2010
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    Okey, whatever, I KNOW I heard a difference in the midrange. Much more harsh and intense. And the amp's were set up the same, with same HU and same speakers. Sorry, but I believe class D is better for subwoofer's.
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • Installer4life
    Installer4life Posts: 256
    edited May 2010
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    I am aware of this test but you can see there are two requirements in his testing that make a big difference. One is the amount of distortion allowed and the other is the sensitivity between the channels. Many amplifiers out there can't produce their rated power at the 2% level and you can have up to a 4 db difference in level between the left and right channels. Very few amplifiers have seperate gain control for each channel usually you have control over two channels at once. If the components inside the amplifier have a larger tolerance then you will get varying level from each channel and no way to adjust it. IF you notice Richard Clark specified that the channels would be adjusted to within a specific limit. Better amplifiers are going to to use better components with tighter tolerances therefore they are going to sound better, run cooler and last longer.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited May 2010
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    Well yeah, there is going to be a limit on distortion and level. You can easily tell the difference if one amp is clipping or one amp has twice the power. Nobody is saying all amps are the same.

    You say one amp has harsh midrange, not that you heard one channel louder than the other. You should be able to pick out the harsh midrange over a "smoother" amp regardless of volume. But you wont be able to because its your imagination.

    Look at all the frequency response graphs of tested amps in Car Audio and Electronics magazine. Every one is ruler flat. How can one amp sound different than another if theyre reproducing every frequency the same? They cant.

    Even if there were amps that colored the sound, why would you want them? The amps job is to reproduce its input signal as transparently as possible. Harsh midrange, broader soundstage, tighter midbass and so on are NOT characteristics of amps. Those are characteristics of speakers.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited May 2010
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    Okey I see, but I know what I heard, you know. ;)

    ANYWAYS... I picked up an old-school 4 channel amp today.
    I'll hook it up to my SR's, and tell you guys how it "sounds" :p

    Adcom GFA 5475

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    It's a true classic, made when I was a baby. :D
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited May 2010
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    My good buddy Steveinaz on the home audio side summed it up best. "My ears = no difference. Your ears = not my problem."

    ;)
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • arun1963
    arun1963 Posts: 1,797
    edited May 2010
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    Yeah, we need a spicy thread on 'amps sound different' ;) One thing that the OP and IFL have'nt factored in, is power.

    I'm sure the Adcom is a nice amp, old school stuff is highly sought after. Just remember you're comparing amps that are putting out different amts of power. I'm assuming you ran all your amps in bridged mode, cause thats how you started with your F-200. So what you have is:

    1. Your initial alpine MRP F 200 - 2x100watts bridged

    2. PDX - 2x300 watts bridged

    3. Adcom - 2x300 watts bridged

    Keeping everything else the same, when you double power, the sound level goes up like 3db. So going from the F to the PDX you trippled your power. Hence you would have gotten a 9db jump thats almost twice as loud than with the F series, becoz 10db louder= twice as loud.

    Everything you 'hear' would be twice as loud including the 1-3khz range. This range has all your sibilance, beaming and reflections, issues. If you don't correct for this range and add more power to the equation, its possible to conclude incorrectly that the amp is makiing this range harsher. If you run the Adcom bridged, you may wind up with the same issue as the PDX.

    Instead of bridging try bi-amping. You'll get better control on the drivers and the lower power will reduce the harshness in your mid range and upper mids.
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  • TakeTheTime
    TakeTheTime Posts: 249
    edited May 2010
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    Well, I didn't use the PDX bridged - I ran active, and used 2x 150w rms on midwoofers and 2x 150w on tweeters all set with gains on minimum. With the F200, I had the gains set to almost maximum and it played loud and well. The problem with the PDX is that it was class D, and people I've talked to (that know what they're talking about) said that the trouble with the intense midrange was because it's a digital amp.

    The Adcom is class A/B, and I'm gonna continue running active,
    using all channels and I THINK it's gonna sound much better. ;)

    A thread about "amps sounding different" is welcome,
    'cause I have enough to say about my experiences now...
    Pioneer P88RS-II | Polk Audio SR5250 | JL Audio 12w6v2 | 2x Genesis 3 Stereo 100 | Genesis 3 Monoblock
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  • arun1963
    arun1963 Posts: 1,797
    edited May 2010
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    TakeTheTime wrote: »
    A thread about "amps sounding different" is welcome,
    'cause I have enough to say about my experiences now...

    You're saying you've learnt enough in 2 months? Makes me feel like a ****, cause 3 years on and I still feel like I just about covered the basics. No we don't really need an 'amps sound different' thread. Can do without the aggro that these threads bring out. My comment was tongue in cheek.

    I think its forum specific. On some forums, a 4x100 watt Nak, Zappco, Mac amp will sound much better than the 4x100 watts polk amp. On another forum they will all sound the same. Maybe the amps do sound different and you're just on the wrong forum.........;) jk.
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