New tube pre-amp.......

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heiney9
heiney9 Posts: 25,094
edited April 2016 in The Clubhouse
So it seems once I get my mind made up to replace, upgrade, demo something new I can't seem to shake it. I have to follow through. I am completely thrilled with the Eastern Electric Mini Max tube pre-amp. Simple, solid, well thought out and sounds killer in my system. IMHO, even better than the Backert Labs Rhumba. But I started researching a particular tube pre-amp and...........................well, now it's in the rig.

I did a little research and after Eastern Electric made the Mini Max pre they set out to make a statement pre. Fully balanced, fully remote w/motor driven volume control - 8 tubes in total, tube rectified, 3 transformers, symmetric layout, premium parts, etc. About 100 were made. Rare as hell to find.

I (or rather our own Tonyb) found one on Head-fi.org. A listing from last year that I missed in my initial search. I contacted the guy and he still had it for sale. Checked his feedback and his participation in several audio forums and it was rock solid, so I made an offer and we came to a price. Yesterday it arrived. This is now the most I've paid a complete stranger for anything bought used over the internet.

Eastern Electric - Avant tube pre-amplifier.

Here's the one (of several reviews and discussions) that sent me over the edge and made me have to get one.

In general I take reviews with a grain of salt, they can be wildly varying as we all have our own ideas of what sounds good sounds like, but if it can live up to this, I will not need another pre for a very long time.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/short-review-eastern-electric-avant?highlight=eastern+electric+avant

I spent a little bit last night listening. More to come and photo's too.


Eastern_Electric_Avant_-_Reflection.jpg

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hk4.jpg

8D9621D2-7E44-4317-B2BF-4805F00D68F0-32430-000007803CCE7F4B_zps7dd0f06b.jpg

I like having the tubes exposed so I can see them, I am going to make a Plexiglass top for the Avant, that should help.

I have been hoarding lots of 12AX7 and 5751 tubes for future use, well the future is here as the input section uses a pair of 12AX7's. The rest are tubes used in the Mini Max. The Avant also uses 5-12AU7's and a single 6x4 rectifier.

H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
    edited April 2016
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    I still have the Mini Max pre and which ever one I prefer after a few months will stay and the other probably sold. I forgot how nice having a remote is.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,979
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    Congrats! If it sounds 1/2 as nice as it looks I'll bet you'll be keeping it.
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
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    The other unique feature (the knob on the left) is a variable gain control. Not 100% sure how it works yet as the manual doesn't mention anything about it. From what little information that's out there, you can vary the voltage gain via one of the pairs of 12AU7's in the feedback loop.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,860
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    That looks like a nice unit! Looking forward to your take on it!
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  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
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    Very nice indeed! Interested in your thoughts on the 12ax7's as that's what the Dodd MLP uses as well.

    Neatly laid out inside - these Eastern Electrics are real sleepers I hadn't heard of before you find miscreants informed me - I dig my MiniMax as well.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
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    That's a beautiful piece Brock. Love the simple elegance of it.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
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    The variable gain might be for optimal power amp matching of levels for improved S/N ratio.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,993
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    Congrats! Beautiful inside and out.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,639
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    steveinaz wrote: »
    The variable gain might be for optimal power amp matching of levels for improved S/N ratio.

    I'm betting that is it right there Steve.

    Brock that is a sweet piece of gear the layout inside looks clean and elegant. I was drawn to the binding post. looks simple to switch out if ever the need came.

    Rock it
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,910
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    Sweet Brock, glad that transaction worked out for you. I do want to hear more about the sound though....so...chop chop. :)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
    edited April 2016
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    Thanks guys! You can tell by how internal lay-out is executed if it's going to be great or not. I don't know a lot of specifics about design, but I can tell you looking at gear like Pass Labs, etc, clean uncluttered, short path layouts are usually a sign of not only quality, but a good designer. All the caps in the signal path are Poly caps (white caps) made by Multi Caps brand w/ Eastern Electric name on them. Multi Caps are designed by Richard Marsh. Electrolytics are Nichicon and maybe a few Muse in there, not sure haven't looked closely.

    The EE Dac Plus, same thing very clean and deliberate layout.

    So far last night I only had it hooked up to make sure it functioned properly, etc. Didn't do a lot of critical listening. The girlfriend did comment on how much depth and width the soundstage seemed to have. She said something to the effect of, "it seems fuller". That was a revelation because she doesn't get this critical audio listening hobby at all. So I think we're on the right track if she instantly noticed a positive change.

    I'll put her through some paces tonight with more familiar stuff, in the sweet spot, uninterrupted, etc. etc.

    I have a pair of 1960 Amperex (short plate) Holland ECC83's, a pair of 1963 Mazda Cifte short plate ECC82's, a pair of 1954 Sylvania JHS-12AU7 short bp's with sq getter and a 1961 Tung Sol 6x4 rectifier. There is a single tube near the balanced input for the balanced input. I put an older GE long plate in that spot since I'm not currently using the balanced connections.

    More to come....

    H9

    P.s. when I say "put her through the paces" I mean the pre not the girlfriend ;)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
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    steveinaz wrote: »
    The variable gain might be for optimal power amp matching of levels for improved S/N ratio.

    I'm sure that's what it's for, just not sure how to use it or if there is a right or wrong way to implement it. Also don't know if all the way to the left is zero gain and all the way to the right is full gain. There is a center detent, is that zero gain and then left or right is less or more?

    I have this question in to Bill O'Connell at Morningstar Audio since they are the EE importer. Hopefully he can shed some light, or I'll experiment and see what sounds best to me.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,910
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    .

    P.s. when I say "put her through the paces" I mean the pre not the girlfriend ;)

    Ever heard of multi-tasking ?
    :p
    Shame man, you'd think one begets the other. ;)
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
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    Generally, you'd like the volume pot to be at 11:00 to 12:00 for typical moderate listening levels; of course it'll change cd to cd but at least it will be "averaged" for the majority of your listening.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,670
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    Brock that's one nice piece of equipment. Congrats.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
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    Congrats, Brock. Hope it replaces the mini.
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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Thanks guys! You can tell by how internal lay-out is executed if it's going to be great or not. I don't know a lot of specifics about design, but I can tell you looking at gear like Pass Labs, etc, clean uncluttered, short path layouts are usually a sign of not only quality, but a good designer. All the caps in the signal path are Poly caps (white caps) made by Multi Caps brand w/ Eastern Electric name on them. Multi Caps are designed by Richard Marsh. Electrolytics are Nichicon and maybe a few Muse in there, not sure haven't looked closely.

    The EE Dac Plus, same thing very clean and deliberate layout.

    So far last night I only had it hooked up to make sure it functioned properly, etc. Didn't do a lot of critical listening. The girlfriend did comment on how much depth and width the soundstage seemed to have. She said something to the effect of, "it seems fuller". That was a revelation because she doesn't get this critical audio listening hobby at all. So I think we're on the right track if she instantly noticed a positive change.

    I'll put her through some paces tonight with more familiar stuff, in the sweet spot, uninterrupted, etc. etc.

    I have a pair of 1960 Amperex (short plate) Holland ECC83's, a pair of 1963 Mazda Cifte short plate ECC82's, a pair of 1954 Sylvania JHS-12AU7 short bp's with sq getter and a 1961 Tung Sol 6x4 rectifier. There is a single tube near the balanced input for the balanced input. I put an older GE long plate in that spot since I'm not currently using the balanced connections.

    More to come....

    H9

    P.s. when I say "put her through the paces" I mean the pre not the girlfriend ;)

    Can I ask what you think of the Amperex? I've always heard they are the bees knees, I recently picked up 2 Amperex Bugle boys, made in holland from 1959, and after about a week with them they didn't float my boat. Maybe I didn't give them Enough of a chance.

    P.S. super nice pre, with some nice features. I might have to try one - one day.
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,073
    edited April 2016
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    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    Can I ask what you think of the Amperex? I've always heard they are the bees knees, I recently picked up 2 Amperex Bugle boys, made in holland from 1959, and after about a week with them they didn't float my boat. Maybe I didn't give them Enough of a chance.

    Judging what I heard of the Focal 1028's sound, being as you enjoy that, you might like Mullard better.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
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    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    Can I ask what you think of the Amperex? I've always heard they are the bees knees, I recently picked up 2 Amperex Bugle boys, made in holland from 1959, and after about a week with them they didn't float my boat. Maybe I didn't give them Enough of a chance.

    P.S. super nice pre, with some nice features. I might have to try one - one day.

    I don't know "what they didn't float my boat" means. Could you be more specific about what you didn't like compared to other tubes you do like?

    Firstly, I have to ask because labeling means nothing, these tubes had the codes indicating they were made in Holland? Secondly, 1959 are mostly long plate tubes, but there are some short plate tubes. There is a difference in sound. Are these long or short plate tubes?

    Yes, the long plate Holland long plate and even the later short plate are considered to be excellent. They are somewhere inbetween the Telefunken and Mullard long plate. They aren't as dark and rolled of as Mullards can be and they have more body than a Telefunken and have very 3D mids and highs.

    I wouldn't give up on the Holland sound with out atleast trying a different pair at some point in the future. Perhaps the pair you have are starting to get weak.

    Good luck

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
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    So far I am really impressed...........

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • starkiller
    starkiller Posts: 2,723
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    Wow, very nice unit indeed!! Be sure and fill us in on which will go as the Mini Max holds some interest for me :)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
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    I'll let you know Alan.

    This new pre is all about the bass. Prodigious bass! Tickle the bottom of your feet bass. The Mini Max does bass really really well, even better than the Rhumba in my rig, but the Avant is clearly on another level. Not because there is more, but because it seems to be more layered and tuneful. It appears this tube rectified power supply is also choke filtered like the Mini Max.

    I had a tube combo in there at one point that wasn't doing anything any favors. Talk about lifeless and closed in!! Notes taken so as not to do that combo again. I am a bit intimidated at all the hundreds of combinations that can be had tube rolling when 8 tubes are involved. So I am taking a methodical approach.

    One combo had a bit too much bass. I am starting to realize how small my listening area is since my room is rectangular. I sit closer than I want and it's easy to overdrive the room. Did that on a couple occasions tonight. This pre is so smooth that I am listening at volume levels higher than I normally would. The Pass Aleph 30 hasn't missed a beat. Still hard to believe it's only 30 wpc.

    It's quite a remarkable pre that is pretty much unknown. I just found out only 50 of 100 were allotted to the US.

    More to come................

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
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    Tell me more about this "tube" thing Brock.....
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
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    Russ, they are made of glass, glow when current is applied and are a throwback to the hey dey of audio...... :D.

    Still experimenting, as I will be for weeks. It may turn out the best tube combo for the 4 - 12AU7 positions are quads of the same tube rather than different pair combo's. If that's the case look for a big sell off from me... :p:o .

    Still too early to tell, but may have found my end point for quite awhile with this tube pre-amp.

    Man this thing sounds good, even at low levels. To me, micro-dynamics is the sign of a well designed piece.

    Time will tell............

    H9

    P.s. I am thinking about having the metal top duplicated in plexi glass since I like to see the tubes.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
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    Got it! Will be picking yer brain in the near future. That is beautiful pre. The plexi top would be kinda neato.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,910
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    The plexi top would be even cooler if he had the Godfather etched in it....you know, to honor the dude that steered him towards it. ;):p
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    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
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    We'll see Tony...lol.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
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    tonyb wrote: »
    The plexi top would be even cooler if he had the Godfather etched in it....you know, to honor the dude that steered him towards it. ;):p

    That would dramatically reduce the value of the pre. And I suspect several of the tubes will commit suicide.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,910
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    lightman1 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    The plexi top would be even cooler if he had the Godfather etched in it....you know, to honor the dude that steered him towards it. ;):p

    That would dramatically reduce the value of the pre. And I suspect several of the tubes will commit suicide.

    Oh contrary my friend, the pre would perform to it's best....or else. No other pre would attempt to take it's place either.....and God forbid Brock ever wanted to sell it.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
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    This thing really responds to tube rolling so it's going to take a while to get dialed in. Listened to her last night for about 4 hours w/ 1 tube change. Everything sounds phenomenal but the bass seems off. Tube change in the 2nd position and it's better but still not quite right.

    With so many tube positions and combo's, this may take awhile. Or perhaps it's time to run a quad of the same 12AU7's and stop mixing and matching 2 different pairs. I had some pair combo's that were less than ideal.

    Problem is some of my ultra rare tubes I only have pairs. Guess it's back to hunting. If I go the quad route I will be having a sell off of some singles and some pairs.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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