Ford and GM to reduce / cease car production

13

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  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,022
    It's looking like I'll be getting my own work of art from Ford soon. Of course, not directly from Ford since it was built 50 years ago
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  • Jimbo18Jimbo18 Posts: 1,843
    DSkip wrote: »
    It's looking like I'll be getting my own work of art from Ford soon. Of course, not directly from Ford since it was built 50 years ago

    '68 Mustang GT500?
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  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,515
    Jimbo18 wrote: »

    '68 Mustang GT500?

    That would be built closer to 51 years ago. :p
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,022
    Jimbo18 wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    It's looking like I'll be getting my own work of art from Ford soon. Of course, not directly from Ford since it was built 50 years ago

    '68 Mustang GT500?

    Hope to have it by the end of the week.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
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  • Jimbo18Jimbo18 Posts: 1,843
    DSkip wrote: »
    Jimbo18 wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    It's looking like I'll be getting my own work of art from Ford soon. Of course, not directly from Ford since it was built 50 years ago

    '68 Mustang GT500?

    Hope to have it by the end of the week.

    Sweeeet! Pics or it didn't happen.
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  • kevhed72kevhed72 Posts: 3,319
    edited October 31
    So when the Japaneese catch up and then supase us in truck quality...will the US automakers abandon that market also? ;) In all seriousness, I wonder how much the decision was based on quality and competitive issues....
    Post edited by kevhed72 on
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,570
    Many of these new, smaller SUV's that are coming out were once cars. The Big 3 are just following the money. If the consumer decides tomorrow they no longer want SUV's and only want cars then next month we'll be building cars. Most of our conveyors and tooling can easily switch from one style to another, and many do, from one job to the next.

    Years ago we painted one color of vehicle one day, another the next. With today's tech we can build just about any product on demand.
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,383
    edited October 31
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    So when the Japaneese catch up and then supase us in truck quality...will the US automakers abandon that market also? ;) In all seriousness, I wonder how much the decision was based on quality and competitive issues....

    They haven't yet... ever drive a Tundra?

    Up here, at least, the resale value of US brand trucks plummets after 3 or 4 years (and those trucks show their age); the Tundras... well, their resale value is rather more robust.

    PS Yeah, I know, there's no Diesel Tundra.

  • verbverb Posts: 3,681
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Many of these new, smaller SUV's that are coming out were once cars. The Big 3 are just following the money. If the consumer decides tomorrow they no longer want SUV's and only want cars then next month we'll be building cars. Most of our conveyors and tooling can easily switch from one style to another, and many do, from one job to the next.

    Years ago we painted one color of vehicle one day, another the next. With today's tech we can build just about any product on demand.

    Yep. Common architectures is the key to moving fast. The capital investment is also minimized that way. Along with flexible manufacturing. The automotive industry is akin to fashion industry. New trends, customer desires, gotta be able to react quickly!
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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,432
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Many of these new, smaller SUV's that are coming out were once cars. The Big 3 are just following the money. If the consumer decides tomorrow they no longer want SUV's and only want cars then next month we'll be building cars. Most of our conveyors and tooling can easily switch from one style to another, and many do, from one job to the next.

    Years ago we painted one color of vehicle one day, another the next. With today's tech we can build just about any product on demand.

    You are leaving out that it takes, on average, 42 months to take a new vehicle from the design stage through to an assembled product rolling off trucks and into showrooms. That is nearly 4 years, and well north of a BILLION dollars in tooling, R&D, government regulations and approvals, and manpower, and even then, there is no assurances the product will be well received by the motoring public. By the time Elvis left the building in 1977, most of the auto executives that had the stones to make things happen retired rather than fight the government. Bill Mitchell, when asked why he was retiring when he did,, cited government regulation and quipped, "have you ever tried to design a really good small car? It's like trying to be a tailor for a dwarf".


    The guys that replaced the legendary kings of Woodward Avenue were bean-counters, lobbyists and lawyers, and none of them knew a damn thing about the auto industry. The real car guys never rise above the assembly floor...
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  • halohalo Posts: 4,431
    From this...
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    zd9kebar5wlr.jpg


    To this...
    2i3ccjhecn1d.jpg
    67oeew1dqvzx.jpg
    even a factory photo of the Riviera couldn't make this tuurd look good

    The '92 Toronado Troféo was actually a pretty nice vehicle. 3800 V6 gave it plenty of power and it had a lot of forward-thinking technology incorporated into its design/options (hands free cell phone interface, for one)
    5852941660_e72d32f49f_b.jpg
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,432
    Transverse mounted FWD... these cars would pull two feet to the right before they ever went an inch forward in you actually used the gas pedal. They added 5 inches to the front of these cars and another foot to the back. Sharing design cues with the N body cars, combined with rather poor performance is what killed them.

    GM has been on a long and unhindered downward spiral ever since. Until they figure out people are willing to pay an extra grand for a well designed product that is beautiful to look at, comfortable to drive and quality materials used throughout, they will continue to circle the drain until Toyota figures out how to build a better Tahoe. Once that happens, GM will be a penny stock just like Sears.
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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,432
    edited October 31
    And I should point out... I used to be a huge GM fan. They were the only cars I would ever consider owning, until I owned a 2001 Monte Carlo SS. What pos that was. My mom's Lumina was another tuurd. The 3100 motor in that thing kept pissing coolant after 30000 miles. She replaced the lower intake gasket in that car every 30k, almost like routine maintenance. Eventually it failed and filled one of the cylinders with coolant and hydro-locked.


    80 year old Vegas streetwalkers had better fit and finish...
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  • sucks2bemesucks2beme Posts: 4,822
    I used to be a big GM fan. after a bunch of junk, i went Ford. Not much better.
    I' m thinking the Mustang might bee my last domestic.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,383
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    I used to be a big GM fan. after a bunch of junk, i went Ford. Not much better.
    I' m thinking the Mustang might bee my last domestic.

    Our history's been similar (FWIW).
    All three vehicles here are currently are Japanese brands... and I never felt the tug to buy Japanese autos, but I certainly felt the domestic marques pushin' me (us) away. :(
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,956
    Personally, I could care less if the vehicles were made here, Japan, Europe, or Antarctica. I want value for my money, and American car makers simply can't do that anymore....for a host of reasons.

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  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,188
    I'll take my Mazda 6 over any comparable Ford or Chevy....
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  • charley95charley95 Posts: 678
    And I should point out... I used to be a huge GM fan. They were the only cars I would ever consider owning, until I owned a 2001 Monte Carlo SS. What pos that was. My mom's Lumina was another tuurd. The 3100 motor in that thing kept pissing coolant after 30000 miles. She replaced the lower intake gasket in that car every 30k, almost like routine maintenance. Eventually it failed and filled one of the cylinders with coolant and hydro-locked.


    80 year old Vegas streetwalkers had better fit and finish...

    Same here. My dad worked for them for 25yrs. It's the only brand I would own, never again! I think the 80's were some of the worst cars they ever produced.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,956
    Gave up GM cars also in the early 80's but I had 2 reasons. One was the crap they put out, the other was the gas prices were zooming north. Toyota and Honda had the answers GM didn't.

    Had a few Honda Preludes, Civic hatchbacks, very dependable and gas sippers. Started every day in the cold Midwest winters too and the front wheel drive made for easier driving in the snow.

    I don't think GM ever recovered from that era. They got better, but the competition was way ahead of them by then and established brand loyalty. Only recently have they had some success with bringing back the old 60's/70's models like the Camaro, Challenger. They botched the GTO return with a piece of junk. One of their only saving graces back then was work trucks, they could still make a truck that was solid and dependable.
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  • kevhed72kevhed72 Posts: 3,319
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    So when the Japaneese catch up and then supase us in truck quality...will the US automakers abandon that market also? ;) In all seriousness, I wonder how much the decision was based on quality and competitive issues....

    They haven't yet... ever drive a Tundra?

    Up here, at least, the resale value of US brand trucks plummets after 3 or 4 years (and those trucks show their age); the Tundras... well, their resale value is rather more robust.

    PS Yeah, I know, there's no Diesel Tundra.
    Im going off of word of mouth advice and the number of Fords and Chevys driving around here vs. import pickups. Funny you mention the Tundra....if I ever did buy a truck, it probably be a Tundra or Nissan. BTW....Im sure you are familiar w the story of Edward Deming and how the US Automakers scoffed at his quality philisophy back in the day? Quite an amazing story.
  • kevhed72kevhed72 Posts: 3,319
    I'll take my Mazda 6 over any comparable Ford or Chevy....


    My wife did her research an purchased a Mazda CX 5. Nicest car all around we have ever owned. You will be happy to know our first CX 5 was in a sunstantial wreck and safety wise performed to a tee, especially for a small vehicle. Front end crumpled like an accordion, engine dropped to the ground, and wind shield remained in one piece. After that we replaced it w another CX5 and upgraded to AWD. Couldnt be happer!
  • sucks2bemesucks2beme Posts: 4,822
    GM and Ford selling big vehicles hurt them. They had to resort to crazy
    ideas to meet MPG requirements (CAFE).This meant trading off known good
    designs for lighter weight. Toyota sells a lot more cars, improving their
    average. They could stick with dependable designs. When Ford trucks and
    SUVs with the 4.6l motors switched from metal to composite intakes, those
    things had sudden o ring failures that dump coolant fast. And modern motors
    don't like overheats at all.
    The 5 speed automatics were complete junk. The fix was not really expensive or
    hard, but they NEVER change designs, since lawyers thought that would be like
    admitting liability for a design flaw. So any design flaw ran the entire life of production. Toyota used feedback from dealer service, and would stop
    production lines to fix these issues. They had issues, but they fixed them.
    I've got a lot of examples of this just with a f150 and SUV to go on.
    Front wheel bearings on Ford Explorers weren't designed for 2wd. Without the
    the front wheel cv axles running though the bearing hub, a little side impact
    on the wheel killed the bearing. $200 a pop just for the part. And this happened
    a lot. God help you if you weren't handy. Double or triple that cost.
    I remember when you couldn't kill a front wheel bearing. If you kept it greased
    all was good. I got a lot more. The list of stuff with the Mountaineer(just like
    an Explorer) goes on and on Two transmissions before 100k. The tranny
    shop ate the second one. It started acting up at about 25k. And it was almost
    ready for a 3rd when I dumped it at 100k. I got a lot more smaller
    but still PITA stuff along with it. And my two sons driving old Toyotas
    just changed oil and tires. Who was the stupid one here?


    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,956
    AHHH, the good old days. When all you had to do was change oil, air and fuel filters, tires, and you were golden into the 150k mile territory.
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,383
    I'll take my Mazda 6 over any comparable Ford or Chevy....
    The Mazda 6 used to share platforms with the Ford Fusion, right? I guess they don't anymore.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,956
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I am finding a huge gap in quality with replacement parts vs. original. Rotors being one part that replacements are like Tonka toys....so thin you can't even turn them once.
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  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,086
    @nooshinjohn has me considering Subaru for my next SUV....

    If I go with a Truck, Tundra's are big contention as is a Ford......

    I'd really love a Subaru WRX STI, but I dont make that kinda money, and its hard to put carseats in those lol.......
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,383
    I think Marky's next auto is gonna be a Subaru...
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 2,798
    edited November 1
    Subaru has a cult following, otherwise nobody would buy the pieces of shet.

    You better do your research if considering buying one.
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,383
    edited November 1
    Subaru has a cult following, otherwise nobody would buy the pieces of shet.

    You better do your research if considering buying one.

    Oh, believe me, I am well aware of the issues, foibles, and eccentricities of the Soobies. Indeed, that's what kept me from considering them for many years.

    The biggest one is the head gasket imbroglio -- but that can work in one's favor (e.g., buying used), as the head gaskets are... straightforward... to change. Our son in law's done a few of them now, and he bought himself an engine hoist. :)

    Cult following indeed. In VT and NH, they're widely considered to be the best thing going in bad weather (snow). That counts for much up here.

    Mrs. H was very turned off by the local dealer (which has changed hands since she was last car shoppin') and I wasn't impressed at all by the Forester in comparison to the RAV4 and the CR-V at the same time.

    On the plus side, one can still (last time I checked) get Subarus with manual transmissions and AWD (all Soobies are AWD), albeit lower end models. Their competitors only offer manuals, if at all, with 2WD, entry level packages.

    Our daughter & son-in-law, and his parents, both have Outbacks now and love 'em to death.

    I'm increasingly drawn to the Impreza (wagon) or its slightly tarted up cousin, the Crosstrek. I like the size, I sort of like the looks (relative to most Subaru products, which (still) remind me of the Japanese efforts of the late 1970s into the1980s, when most Japanese cars were some weird, hallucinogenic vision of what Japanese designers thought Americans liked. :p

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