Ford and GM to reduce / cease car production

Viking64

verb wrote: »

IIRC, didn't Toto acuire Jaguar?

NO!!!!

verb

Ah TATA, sorry must've had Wizard of Oz on my mind!

Viking64

verb wrote: »

Ah TATA, sorry must've had Wizard of Oz on my mind!

verb

Viking64 wrote: »

verb wrote: »

Ah TATA, sorry must've had Wizard of Oz on my mind!

You read my mind? Uncanny Jimmy!

nooshinjohn

I think the biggest problem with cars vs. SUV/trucks is that the big three keep building ugly cars nobody wants to rent, much less admit they own. This year alone, they will design dozens of concept cars that are incredible to look at and loaded with the latest gizmos.






Then two years later they will show up as either a Hyundai, Honda, or a Mercedes, while GM, Ford and Chrysler keep trotting out rehashed designs on platforms that are older than F1nut.

ken brydson

nooshinjohn wrote: »

GM, Ford and Chrysler keep trotting out rehashed designs on platforms that are older than F1nut.

mdaudioguy

nooshinjohn wrote: »

And Jaguar wants to become the European Tesla.... I will NOT buy a 100k glorified golf cart.

They might not be for every person or every circumstance, but Telsas are not golf carts. Legit cars. Ever drive one? The one I drove was half that price, btw, and I'm still shaking my head from the experience.

westmassguy

verb wrote: »

Ah TATA, sorry must've had Wizard of Oz on my mind!

We all do once in a while

nooshinjohn

One of the biggest issues for these cars going forward to me, is where are they going to get the electricity from? Here in California, we already have rolling brown-outs from lack of supply because they haven’t built a new power plant here in decades, nor do they plan to do so any time soon. What will they do when 50 percent of the vehicles on the road need a charge?

Another is that electric cars are not as environmentally friendly as they appear. Many new cars are actually cleaner than their battery driven counterparts if you assign a CO2 value to the charging station. The power plant still produces CO2, even though the car itself does not. Another thing is what do we do with the batteries? The only thing on the planet harder to dispose of are the spent fuel rods from a nuclear reactor....

mdaudioguy

Idk, apparently you shoot them into space...

I don't know about the supply issue. Actually, I don't have any answers. But, I do know they're pretty decent cars.

verb

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I think the biggest problem with cars vs. SUV/trucks is that the big three keep building ugly cars nobody wants to rent, much less admit they own. This year alone, they will design dozens of concept cars that are incredible to look at and loaded with the latest gizmos.






Then two years later they will show up as either a Hyundai, Honda, or a Mercedes, while GM, Ford and Chrysler keep trotting out rehashed designs on platforms that are older than F1nut.

Love the Buick and Caddy!

verb

But the bottom caption kinda hurt!

nooshinjohn

I would rather buy a Buick over the Jag, but they jumped the shark when the Riviera became a gussied up Somerset, and the rear wheel drive Regal got axed. Cadillac has yet to recover from the Cimmaron, and the ubiquitous HT4100...

verb

Yep I hear ya. RWD, manual trans, V8 power, etc., most folks don’t care about them anymore. They want fuel economy. Most folks nowadays can’t handle a RWD car, or manual tranny. We average less than 10% volume on those features if offered in a model. Sports cars excluded. Hard to justify a business case for those low volumes.

nooshinjohn

It doesn't make sense to design a car knowing well in advance that what you are building is doomed to fail because it is ugly as Russ' hairy backside and as reliable as PFB shipping.

The two cars I posted above would have people at least take the time to go to the showroom and look. Give that Buick a detuned version of the supercharged Z06 mill, and price it 12k below a BMW 6 series coupe, and you would find there would be takers for the car if the interior trim were up to snuff. Let Cadillac outsource the motor and get that V10 from VW/Audi, and price it starting at 50k... again, a person in the market for a S-class Benz would be foolish not to take a peek. The problem as I see it is that Ford and GM are waiving a surrender flag here on our own soil, rather than answering the challenge and building better cars.


Oh well, trucks are more profitable, so we will chase the buck... well guess what. Mercedes is building a pickup for the US market, and so will Hyundai. It won't be long before GM, Ford and Chrysler loose their profit margins on those as well. Maybe they can sell vehicles through Sears.

Viking64

nooshinjohn wrote: »

HT4100

PEE-OH-ESS!!! Who needs their oil to drain back into the crankcase from the rockers? Let's just fill those galleries with JB Weld and keep that precious oil up under the valve covers where it can do so much more good!

And let's not forget the magical 8-6-4. Who says we have to master a technology before we implement it?

nooshinjohn

I had a V8-6-4 in an '81 Eldorado Biarritz, white over red leather. I drove that car over 300,000 miles and never had the slightest issue with that engine, but I did rebuild the tranny twice. I still miss that car.

Viking64

verb wrote: »

manual tranny.

He still identifies as "Manuel", thankyouverymuch!

Viking64

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I had a V8-6-4 in an '81 Eldorado Biarritz, white over red leather. I drove that car over 300,000 miles and never had the slightest issue with that engine, but I did rebuild the tranny twice. I still miss that car.

You're lucky. I've heard horror stories about those valve solenoid doohickeys losing power and the valves not being where they are supposed to be at TDC.

I had an '85 El Dorado. Silver, gray leather, and a black Martin Landau top. Obviously it was gutless compared to my brother's 70s 500c.i. Eldos, but that thing was a rust-free, low mileage, one owner creampuff when I bought it at a dealer auction.

When I first started seeing those cars circa 1981, I remember thinking they were the cutest, tiniest Cadillacs I had ever seen (save for the aforementioned Citation-based abomination). By the late 80s/early 90s, they were considered boats. HAHAHAHA

nooshinjohn

From this...




To this...


even a factory photo of the Riviera couldn't make this tuurd look good.

In 1985 GM built some 275,000 "E" body cars across three makes (Eldorado,Toronado,Riviera)… In 1986, than number dropped to less than 70,000, and continued to drop until the Riviera and Toronado were dropped in 1993. But GM didn't stop there. They did this very same thing to every car in their lineup. soon Cadillac/Buick customers were driving Mercedes and BMW, and Chevy/Pontiac/Oldsmobile owners went to Toyota, Honda and Nissan.


GM's failure to build a decent car in more than 40 years is why they are focusing on trucks.
It is interesting to note that the lead designer for GM during this time, after the commitment was made for every GM vehicle to go FWD, and much smaller than ever is the very same guy that went on to become design lead for Lexus....

BlueFox

After gas goes to $5/gallon, or more, there will be lots of SUVs, trucks for sale. Small cars will be scarce, and fetch a good price. A car is too convenient a tool to disappear, but maybe used less.

Viking64

I was in the bay area, in a junkyard somewhere across the San Mateo Bridge, and they had this gorgeous mid-80s Biarritz that was some sort of special edition with which I was unfamiliar. White on white, chrome everywhere, just a little tasteful touch of gold. Not overdone like most gold packages.

And they were asking some ridiculously low (to me, at least) amount, like $1600 or something. I was living in Vermont at the time, and I wanted to drive it home. I could have gotten 4K for that baby in Vermont easily, but I didn't even want to sell it.

Sadly, I had other commitments on that trip and it was not to be.

westmassguy

Viking64 wrote: »

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I had a V8-6-4 in an '81 Eldorado Biarritz, white over red leather. I drove that car over 300,000 miles and never had the slightest issue with that engine, but I did rebuild the tranny twice. I still miss that car.

You're lucky. I've heard horror stories about those valve solenoid doohickeys losing power and the valves not being where they are supposed to be at TDC.

I had an '85 El Dorado. Silver, gray leather, and a black Martin Landau top. Obviously it was gutless compared to my brother's 70s 500c.i. Eldos, but that thing was a rust-free, low mileage, one owner creampuff when I bought it at a dealer auction.

When I first started seeing those cars circa 1981, I remember thinking they were the cutest, tiniest Cadillacs I had ever seen (save for the aforementioned Citation-based abomination). By the late 80s/early 90s, they were considered boats. HAHAHAHA

Cute, Tiny and Cadillac should never be in the same sentence...

verb

One of my faves! 59 Cadillac!

mhardy6647

BlueFox wrote: »

After gas goes to $5/gallon, or more, there will be lots of SUVs, trucks for sale. Small cars will be scarce, and fetch a good price. A car is too convenient a tool to disappear, but maybe used less.

We (American auto buyers) keep ridin' that same danged roller coaster.

mhardy6647

verb wrote: »

One of my faves! 59 Cadillac!

We had a '58 -- white, 4 door hardtop (no B pillar), at least as I remember it. A true whale of a car. Gas cap hidden behind one of the taillight bezels.

I don't think I have any photos of it, though. It was a hand me down from my grandfather to my parents, in the mid-70s, and they didn't keep it long. The Energy Crisis was a substantial part of the reason

tonyb

Cars disappearing.....used less ??

Maybe some wish it, but not likely in a country our size. A car represents freedom, not many are going to give that up no matter what it cost or gas prices. We aren't Europe, small countries with excellent train systems.

If US car makers pull out of making cars, someone else will step in to fill the void. Toyota and Honda cut their teeth on the small economy class cars. Now you have Hyundai and Kia also.

Trucks and SUV's are selling because of their versatility, replacing the old station wagon and mini vans. People will sacrifice other areas of their life to retain that freedom, much in the same way they do for their Iphones.

I would maybe suggest, they are pulling out of the car business because of failed business models/stiff competition. Both have been known to kill a business from time to time.

dromunds

The Chinese are about to flood the American market with cheap cars.

tonyb

dromunds wrote: »

The Chinese are about to flood the American market with cheap cars.

Yeah, ones that only turn left and brakes for one tire only.

Tony M

Cute, Tiny and Cadillac should never be in the same sentence...


[/quote]

That there is a work of ART.

A true "Land Yacht".