Took delivery of my 3rd and final system but a problem
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Joey_V
Posts: 8,520
So I took delivery of what will be my 3rd and final system for the house. It is one of my favorites - Bowers and Wilkins PM1. I am pairing it with a Rotel RC1570 preamp and Rotel RB1582 amplifier for purposes of ease of use and reliability.
So it was nice of my wife to let me have the system a couple days before Valentine's... I suppose a Valentine's Day gift of sorts.
So I should be ecstatic... But I noticed that as good as the seller packed the stands And speakers, I found a couple marks on the speakers themselves and I noted a large defect on the stands. It was labeled 8/10 on audiogon.
Now I am a seasoned buyer on audiogon so I did my due diligence and the seller has good feedback.
I think maybe he just missed the speaker baffle marks but I'm not sure what to make of the stand marks. I feel like it could be a shipping issue but I didn't see a box ding.
The stands and soeakers were shipped in 2 separate shipments.
Both insured.
The problem is these were limited edition and no longer made, the stands are not sourceable.
If we claim insurance on the stand, FedEx will take the stand and either ding it some more during their inspection and not reimburse... Or they will take the stands and then reimburse...
Either way I either lose a stand or end up with a worse stand.
What should I do?
1. Have the seller refund me partially?
2. Return the entire unit? File a claim on audiogon/PayPal?
3. Claim the stand against fedex? And risk losing the stand or lose the claim?
So it was nice of my wife to let me have the system a couple days before Valentine's... I suppose a Valentine's Day gift of sorts.
So I should be ecstatic... But I noticed that as good as the seller packed the stands And speakers, I found a couple marks on the speakers themselves and I noted a large defect on the stands. It was labeled 8/10 on audiogon.
Now I am a seasoned buyer on audiogon so I did my due diligence and the seller has good feedback.
I think maybe he just missed the speaker baffle marks but I'm not sure what to make of the stand marks. I feel like it could be a shipping issue but I didn't see a box ding.
The stands and soeakers were shipped in 2 separate shipments.
Both insured.
The problem is these were limited edition and no longer made, the stands are not sourceable.
If we claim insurance on the stand, FedEx will take the stand and either ding it some more during their inspection and not reimburse... Or they will take the stands and then reimburse...
Either way I either lose a stand or end up with a worse stand.
What should I do?
1. Have the seller refund me partially?
2. Return the entire unit? File a claim on audiogon/PayPal?
3. Claim the stand against fedex? And risk losing the stand or lose the claim?
Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
Comments
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Looking at the large defect in the stands, there's a "scuff" mark on it... I can't see how if it was Saran wrapped and bubble wrapped that it would have that kind of a scuff Mark.
I can see if the box were dropped it would crack, but I don't get how it could scuff like that.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
It's a very usable system. The scuff on the baffle is minor and with the grill u can't see them.
The stand crack is actually hidden because it is in the rear and towards the media console so it is invisible from the front. It's only that I know it's there and when I resell it'll hit me.
Though I doubt I would ever resell since I enjoy these little guys.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
If you can't see it, and you really want to keep the stands that you can't get anymore, I would take it on the chin and keep them.
Especially if you're not worried about re-sale. -
So ask him for a partial refund?
That's what I'm leaning towards.
I could always sit and wait for another pair to sell and I could buy it and resell the speaker and keep the stand.
I bought it for $1900 for the speaker/stand. I was thinking of asking $400 back?
Retail for the set was $2800+$550 stands.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
So ask him for a partial refund?
That's what I'm leaning towards.
I could always sit and wait for another pair to sell and I could buy it and resell the speaker and keep the stand.
I bought it for $1900 for the speaker/stand. I was thinking of asking $400 back?
Retail for the set was $2800+$550 stands.
Sounds reasonable...
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In my mind, if the damage was from shipping then the seller is not responsible. How one proves any of that is unknown. Did he provide 360 degree top, bottom, and side photos showing the condition of the stands?Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Difficult to prove if seller or shipper, all I know is for sure it came this way as I am extremely careful, wear gloves, etc
The speaker front baffle w a ding is seller for sure.
The stand i am not sure.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
If this were my main system, this would be an easy decision, it would go back.
But because it is the 3rd system, I am far more tolerant though I still want things to be fair.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Wiped the whole system down with a damp cloth, looks pretty good but the stand corner is pretty brutal. I am digging
The new system though. Hits well above its price point.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Wonder if somebody at a good body shop could do something with those stands?
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The marks on the speakers I could
Live with, but man... those stands bases are pretty beat up.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
You say the seller has a good history, so it seems unlikely that he would hide the fact that they are damaged that much. At the same time, if the box isn't damaged on the outside, it seems like the damage would have to have been before they were packed.
Do you know if the seller boxed them himself? Could have happened before going in the box and if he had someone else pack it, they didn't tell him about damaging the stand.
Either way, I would send him photos of the damage and see what he says. -
It's a very usable system. The scuff on the baffle is minor and with the grill u can't see them.
The stand crack is actually hidden because it is in the rear and towards the media console so it is invisible from the front. It's only that I know it's there and when I resell it'll hit me.
Though I doubt I would ever resell since I enjoy these little guys.
Let's be realistic here.
You like the system and everything works. No one can see it, it is ONLY because you know that it is there. You don't think you are going to resell them.
So WTH are you *itching about? What does your wife say? If she doesn't have a problem with it....sit down shut the hell up and just enjoy!
And then search out a therapist to help you get over your OCD!
When I got my used Sunfire amp, there were a couple of scratches on it in the front but the amp worked just fine. So I took a black permanent marker and ran it over the scratches. I could no longer see them and simply forgot about them. Now I can't even find where the damn scratches are and I've been enjoying the benefits of the amp for over 10 years!Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
I hate when this stuff happens. Definitely reach out to the seller and see if you can work something out. Also gives you a chance to see what approach they take so you can maybe read their reaction.2 Channel
Pre:Bryston BP173
Amp:Bryston 14B3
Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
Display: Sony XBR65Z9F
Home Theater
Pre: Anthem AVM90/JBL SDP-55
Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
Display: Sony XBR85Z9G -
That stinks; I would be upset also but I am not sure what action I would take if I did anything at all. I agree mostly with the other sentiment that you should begin with a polite reaching out to the seller and see what he/she offers up.
Slight sidetrack on my second thought....where did you get this tv stand? I am looking for something like this.
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That stinks; I would be upset also but I am not sure what action I would take if I did anything at all. I agree mostly with the other sentiment that you should begin with a polite reaching out to the seller and see what he/she offers up.
Slight sidetrack on my second thought....where did you get this tv stand? I am looking for something like this.
All I want is that the equity in the speaker set up remains. The stands are no longer a plus IF resale/resold.
TV stand is from westelm. Restoration hardware has nicer ones, but we didn't want to spend too much for the gameroom where it gets beat up.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
The marks on the speakers I could
Live with, but man... those stands bases are pretty beat up.
I agree. The speakers are livable.
Stands got beat.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
It's a very usable system. The scuff on the baffle is minor and with the grill u can't see them.
The stand crack is actually hidden because it is in the rear and towards the media console so it is invisible from the front. It's only that I know it's there and when I resell it'll hit me.
Though I doubt I would ever resell since I enjoy these little guys.
Let's be realistic here.
You like the system and everything works. No one can see it, it is ONLY because you know that it is there. You don't think you are going to resell them.
So WTH are you *itching about? What does your wife say? If she doesn't have a problem with it....sit down shut the hell up and just enjoy!
And then search out a therapist to help you get over your OCD!
When I got my used Sunfire amp, there were a couple of scratches on it in the front but the amp worked just fine. So I took a black permanent marker and ran it over the scratches. I could no longer see them and simply forgot about them. Now I can't even find where the damn scratches are and I've been enjoying the benefits of the amp for over 10 years!
Sorry I will have to disagree with you Cathy. With the money I put away for my gear and the hard work that goes into it, I have the right to be OCD.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Wonder if somebody at a good body shop could do something with those stands?
That's what my dad said. He just came by and I had him take a look at it.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
You say the seller has a good history, so it seems unlikely that he would hide the fact that they are damaged that much. At the same time, if the box isn't damaged on the outside, it seems like the damage would have to have been before they were packed.
Do you know if the seller boxed them himself? Could have happened before going in the box and if he had someone else pack it, they didn't tell him about damaging the stand.
Either way, I would send him photos of the damage and see what he says.
I think you are right Jimbo... I think the damage happened while it was being packed. The box appears pretty decent. I will take pics.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Did you find any of the chipped off material in the packaging or wrap?? If not I doubt it was from shipping.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
Good point, Sherlock.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Happened to me once, all the small chips were in the packing.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
It.........was............ME!!!
I suplexed your package while en route!
I thought about fire but that was so 2016! Bwahahaha...
Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!! -
Ahh been there. That sucks, but bound to happen at some point. Buying used is risky and having it shipped is leaving yourself open to be taken advantage of. Good luck getting any money back, I think you got screwed.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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$400 back for some chips on stands that cost $550 brand new doesn't seem fair. I'd be happy with $100 back.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
Send it all back, none of it is even close to 8/10.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
^^^^ I agree with F1nut's short and simple answer. It is not what you purchased. Although the marks may be hidden from view, each will grow larger in your mind. I don't think you will ever be happy with them."Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"
Harry / Marietta GA -
Did the seller pack it himself or paid someone to do it? I only ask because maybe he wasn't aware especially if he has good feedback. Just a thought. I'm in between Cathy and F1. True it's not what you thought you bought, but if a partial refund suited you then keep them. Only you can decide, it's your hard earned money after all.
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I'd suggest if their price was warranted enough to consider it to be a good deal to keep them [if in fact any serious cosmetic damage was limited only to the stand]. However due to the fact that the seller failed to document such obvious flaws to his potential buyers I'd definitely contact him about some reimbursement.Perhaps take the stand in somewhere for a estimated repair cost and ask for part or all of that.I may be wrong but due to the lack of evidence I don't think a damage claim in shipping would be warranted.I'd consider this to be another case where both the seller and the buyer bear responsibility since the issues could have easily been avoided had the seller taken a full set of photographs to prove condition prior to and during packaging and/or if the buyer asked if a more complete set of picts could be sent to get a full understanding of the expected cosmetic condition before purchasing.Hope you both come to a equitable resolve!
Enjoy the tunes and be respectful of your neighbors!!Post edited by befuddle on
