Damn it........... Cables matter!!

135

Comments

  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    Man......... Those wel cables are big bucks. I would love to hear them, but I'm not willing to give up my first born.
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 5,707
    edited January 14
    crashb4 wrote: »
    Man......... Those wel cables are big bucks. I would love to hear them, but I'm not willing to give up my first born.

    Yeah it's not easy to complete the loom

    Still missing xlr x2
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature B) ) -> new speakers -> :D
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3 -> :o
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> B&W PM1 -> o:)

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,355
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Enjoying my new AQ Wel power cords. That's all I gotta say

    Cable believer I am

    Aww Joey, you make my heart melt. lol Took practically a 2 by 4 across your head, but welcome to the dark side. :p
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
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    Joule LA-100
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 37,669
    BlueFox wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    BlueFox wrote: »
    The only silver cable I have experience with is the Revelation Audio Passage Cryo-Silver Reference DB-25 umbilical power cable. This replaced the stock Pass cable between the preamp and its power supply, and this cable resulted in a virtual upgrade to a new preamp far beyond the stock XP-20.

    The Revelation Audio silver umbilical cords are beyond amazing.

    You heard these eh? I was floored when I installed mine.

    I have a set (3 required) in my rig.......floored me too.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 9,144
    The thing that gets me about the RA cables on my Pass XP-20 is they just carry DC and ground between the power supply and preamp. I bet if one measured both cables their multimeter would show 12v and 5v DC each time (or whatever DC is being used). Yet the RA cable makes a very obvious sonic improvement. LOL. A great example of how cabling can effect audio. I wish I was in college again. This audio cable conundrum would be a great PH.D. subject. :)
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-20 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
    Revelation Audio Cryo-Silver Reference DB-25 umbilical power cable for preamp modules

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 37,669
    Agreed Bud and additional proof that measurements do not tell all.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    So i got to thinking. The original jumpers are kinda weak (top) and probably should be replaced. Sooooo......... a nice 10 Gage jumper can't hurt(bottom). We'll give this a rip.

    3mrszgjgi1ru.jpg
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,355
    I'm sure they'll do better, but normally the jumpers should be of the same brand/quality as your speaker cables. For instance, if you had single runs of MIT speaker cables, you'd use their jumpers, which is almost like buying a bi-wired cable. If you use different branded jumpers, your not getting the full effect of the speaker cables.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    Didn't know that. I will look for AQ jumpers. I figure these have to be better than what was there for now.
    Thanks.
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,355
    I'm sure they are better than what you had in there, but without the AQ jumpers your not transferring that same sound signature to the top half of your speakers. See what I'm sayin' ?
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 6,911
    I really should get some MIT jumpers. The only thing I had on hand I could use when Larry dropped off the SDA's was rat shack speaker cable.
    | Front - Dynaudio Emit M20 | Center - N/A | Rear - Polk Monitor 4 | Sub - N/A |
    | AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 | Preamp - Dared MC-7P | Amp - B&K Reference 4420 |
    | Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 | Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H | Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini |
    | TV - LG 60" 4K | Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |

    This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
    Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
    All this pain is an illusion
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 3,656
    @F1nut @BlueFox would that work on my Joule bewteen the power supply and the preamp?

    Lumin D1, KEF LS50 Wireless, Cayin scd-50T, LH Labs VI Dac, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP I7 Laptop, Wireworld Eclipse 7, Wireworld Aurora, Wireworld Electra 7, Signal Magic Digital, Cardas Quadralink 5C, Velodyne SPL1200
    USB helpers: Intona, w4s Recovery

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 9,144
    If it uses a straight through DB-25 connector then it would work. Whether it sounds better or not is unknown. Google Revelation Audio and see what they offer. They will make custom cables if they know the connector type and pin out.
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-20 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
    Revelation Audio Cryo-Silver Reference DB-25 umbilical power cable for preamp modules

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 3,656
    Thanks I will check them out. Its funny I never thought about upgrading that cord until I saw you talking about it here but, it makes sense. I have Cardaa going to the power supply but the stock cable from the power supply to the Lap-150A
    Lumin D1, KEF LS50 Wireless, Cayin scd-50T, LH Labs VI Dac, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP I7 Laptop, Wireworld Eclipse 7, Wireworld Aurora, Wireworld Electra 7, Signal Magic Digital, Cardas Quadralink 5C, Velodyne SPL1200
    USB helpers: Intona, w4s Recovery

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 37,669
    Bud is right, Brad will custom make a cable(s) for you. Mine are a pair of SpeakOn and the other is a 5 pin connection.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 5,707
    I tried to avoid the who jumper ordeal because it's near impossible to find the exact cord for the speaker cable in question. For example:

    Audioquest jumpers are psc+ in hyperlitz, however it is not silver as the wel nor is it same gauge as the wel nor is it DBS like the wel.

    So I was very specific about looking for a biwire version at the speaker end (called single-biwire).

    But that goes to show you the pain of even the jumper.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature B) ) -> new speakers -> :D
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3 -> :o
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> B&W PM1 -> o:)

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    Yes I do. The hunt is on.
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    tonyb wrote: »
    I'm sure they are better than what you had in there, but without the AQ jumpers your not transferring that same sound signature to the top half of your speakers. See what I'm sayin' ?

    Yes I do. The hunt is on for new jumpers.
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • CH46ECH46E Posts: 228
    I used to work a a Audio Quest retailer and got a very good discount on them. I have always been pretty happy with my AQ Diamond Backs. I also have Type 8 CV speaker cables but since my room redesign I cant use them anymore :(

    Marrow Audio seems to have some good reviews on thier power cables.

    I have already ran a new 10 guage line from the box to a outlet for all the equipment.
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,073
    crashb4 wrote: »
    MIT interconnects arrived today. Got a chance to do a little listening tonight. Immediate impression: further clarity in upper end frequencies. Most notable however is that the cymbals have moved from the background and are now front and center. Their clarity is remarkable. I also hear much greater depth in vocals with heavy reverb. It's much easier to hear and is very clear. All in all, a nice improvement.
    Hello again, crashb4. Now that you have had some time with them, albeit not much, have you noticed any further change? Is it subtle? More of the lower notes shining through with less congestion? More impact? Mid bass clearing up a tad bit more? Top end a little clearer?

    Do any of the aforementioned sound better or are they a tad bit mixed or even worse than your initial impressions?

    Tom

    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    The MITs are still providing the clarity that was noted earlier. Overall detail is excellent. The largest improvement came from the AQ speaker cables. The addition of the 10 Gage jumpers reduced some of the low end punch but it is still quite good. I believe that an amp upgrade (looking at Krell) is in order and will help with this. I run my preamp dead flat at all times. Prior to my latest electronics, I used to run an equalizer in my systems. No need for one now. What is more remarkable than the details that I hear and didn't know were there is the things that i thought were there but weren't. I have found that using the EQ allowed me to alter the sound into something that it wasn't. It was hard to get used to listening to actual recordings. Sometimes it's like listening to a song for the first time. I still have a ways to go with my equipment but i think that i am headed in the right direction. Thanks to everyone here. Your experience and advice is a tremendous help.
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 7,051
    crashb4 wrote: »
    The addition of the 10 Gage jumpers reduced some of the low end punch but it is still quite good.

    Get better spades. Those in the picture are terrible. I have used them, I had a set of 10 I gave to others to try and all came back and told me the same thing. In a nut shell they took away for the signal. I'd bet the original jumpers pass better signal.

  • rednedtugentrednedtugent Posts: 10,277
    Yes, cables matter.
    The questions really are, how much, which ones matter most, and
    what are you willing to spend to get them.
  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    edited January 30
    Yes, cables matter.
    The questions really are, how much, which ones matter most, and
    what are you willing to spend to get them.

    That is the $64K question. Looks like a lot of trial and error. What's worse is that replacing a piece of electronics can render previous selections useless. Used cables for my budget. They can be had for as little $0.10 on the dollar. Plus they are already burned in. Much more palatable than new retail.
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Get better spades. Those in the picture are terrible. I have used them, I had a set of 10 I gave to others to try and all came back and told me the same thing. In a nut shell they took away for the signal. I'd bet the original jumpers pass better signal.

    What did you replace them with. The current spades actually fit on the larger Polk posts.
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,073
    crashb4 wrote: »
    The addition of the 10 Gage jumpers reduced some of the low end punch but it is still quite good.
    Okay, thanks for answering. Your statement here has me a little confused. Please allow me to clarify what it is you are trying to say. I can think of two possibilities.

    The first is that even though they are a thicker, supposedly "upgraded" set of jumpers, the sound has been hampered for one reason or another. If this is the case, lose them. Adding a deficiency to your rig should never be allowed in my opinion. Even if the loss is slight. Forward, never backwards I say.

    The second is this. I have seen people who have observed a "loss of mid-bass" before with cables. In this case, this possibly might not be a bad thing. Hear me out. There have been instances to where folks get a different cable or amplifier, perhaps a different sub and they somewhat share the same observations as you might be trying to tell us about. A "loss".

    The loss you *may* be experiencing *might* just be a more accurate reproductive effort. With the loss of an overponderance of upper bass and mid bass frequencies, their may be a loss of what you are describing BUT with that comes less of a "mask" to those and overall frequencies. This will add texture to voices, subtle nuances to things you are familiar with or even things that were previously masked by the overponderance.

    If this is the case, listen to some tracks you are intimately familiar with. Does the new jumper offer more musical information to come through....or is it literally as described, a true loss?

    If it's a loss, my advice would be to get rid of it and look elsewhere for an actual improvement or be happy with what you had. If it's the second possibility, listen to some music and decide whether or not the changes offer more than what you previously heard. Only you know your system and that is up to you to decide.

    I will say this, many seasoned audiophiles will hear a Magico speaker for the first time and think that the bass is "light". Well, it most certainly is not. What they are experiencing is for the first time, cabinet resonances that are now gone. They are getting a more "pure" reproductive effort with noises that are omitted. Goinf from a Legacy Audio speaker to a Magico (for instance) may be a bit of a shock because they have gotten used to hearing cabinet resonances over the years and they are not used to Magico's almost nill cabinet resonances.

    Another example would be someone who has owned a Cerwin-Vega speaker for many years. Then they walk into a store and experience a B&W speaker for the first time. They may comment, "Where's the bass?". Oh, it's there but it is bass that they are not used too. They have been accustomed to hearing cabinet resonances, "boomy" bass and low end, slow thumps for so long, this is what they expect bass to sound like.

    'Knaw mean? Like I said, only you will be able to know this as we can not listen to your rig. I just wanted to share with you some possibilities so you can make your own decision as to whther or not the jumpers are a good choice to keep or get rid of as fast as Rosie O'Donnell wanting to take you to where the magic happens.

    To the rest of the Polk Audio forum, it sure is nice to communicate and share experiences without the usual anti- cable crowd coming in and polluting the thread. It's refreshing to say the least.

    Tom

    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,418
    edited January 30
    treitz3 wrote: »

    To the rest of the Polk Audio forum, it sure is nice to communicate and share experiences without the usual anti- cable crowd coming in and polluting the thread. It's refreshing to say the least.

    Tom

    The main instigator in those efforts is no longer allowed the privilege of being a member here. It is refreshing!

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,355
    Well stated Tom, in the end though I don't think much of us chase the "accurate" reproduction as much as we just simply cater to our own preferences.

    An example of that is some love that boom-boom a car audio system can have and want to replicate that in their home systems. Certainly not accurate, put pleases the owner. Extreme example, but personal preferences to me anyway hold sway over what is truly accurate or not. As long as you like what you hear, rock on.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • crashb4crashb4 Posts: 143
    Honestly.... I haven't had the listening time to determine the exact nature of the change. Initial impression was a reduction in punch, but i haven't put ears on it for long enough to truly evaluate the overall sound. In the next few days i will spend more time with some of my go to tracks and do some critical listening. I agree that one is not to settle for a change that is not better. I will scrap the jumpers in a heart beat if the results are not positive. Thanks for your input treitz3. I feel the same way about moving forward.
    Rotel: RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RT-1080 RLC-1040.
    Oppo: DV-980H
    Polk: Monitor-10B, SDA-1A, SDA-SRS

    To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. --Chinese Proverb
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 13,202
    Car audio gets a bad rap because many have never heard a good setup. They don't know any better or are in it for the showmanship.

    Accurate reproduction should be high on the list but can cater to preferred listening habits and recordings. If you aren't chasing realism, I don't know why you would throw big money at this hobby. You can argue people hear differently, but once you've heard a more realistic setup, its hard not to chase that sound in one way or another.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Usher: CP-6311, Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Fiesole, Volterra, Polk: T50, Signature S60, S55, S35, S30, S20, S15, RTA 15tl, Sonner Audio Allegro Unum
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Dayens Ampino, Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, AURALiC Altair, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design Magnifico, North Star Design Supremo
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
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