Long Speaker Cable Recommendation

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DarqueKnight
DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
edited July 2015 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I want to upgrade the speaker cables in my office rig. I need a 25 foot pair. Current cables are Monster Z2 reference (12 gauge). I want to stay (well) under $1000, so let's not get carried away.

I am looking at Signal Cable Silver Resolution Reference, which is a 10 gauge copper/silver hybrid that would run me under $800 for a 25 foot pair.

What other speaker cables would you recommend in my price range and length constraints?

Interconnects will be either:

1. Signal Cable Silver Resolution Reference XLR (copper),
2. Signal Cable Analog Two XLR (copper/silver hybrid), or
3. PS Audio xStream Resolution Reference (silver).

USB cable will be a Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver (silver - either dual conduit or split conduit configuration).

The XLR ICs above are from my spare stock. I have not done XLR IC evaluations in the office rig yet. When I had them in my main two channel system PSAxRR>>SCRR>>SCAT.

Electronics are:

Bryston BDP-2 digital player,
Adcom GFP-750 preamp,
Adcom GFA-565SE power amp,
Cary Audio DAC-100 DAC.

Speakers are hot-rodded SDA CRS+s with rings, RD0s, Dynamat, Black Hole, Cardas internal wire, crossovers with custom boards, Mills resistors, Jantzen and Solen inductors, Sonicap capacitors, and of course, a Dreadnought with a 1000VA Avel-Lindberg transformer and cables made from Cardas 9.5 gauge wire.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    Not sure of the price, but I have read good things about Kimber Kable. Also, the last MIT demo had great low cost speaker cables as part of the demo, but I have forgotten the model number. In a month or so Shunyata is introducing their Venom line of speakers cables. I have mine on order for a 5.1 HT.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,057
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    Audioquest Rocket series. Terminated however you like. I suggest the Silver 500 banana's.
    25ft pr of 44's would run you around $949. You could get into the 33's for around $600 depending on termination.

    They are excellent cables and would be perfect for your rig.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    Hard one Ray....but I do think the gear is deserving of better than Signal cable wire. 25 FT. is the problem though, that's some coinage. Maybe you can find a long pair of Analysis plus Oval 12's for those CRS's. Maybe buy bulk from the Cable Company and add your own connectors.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
    edited July 2015
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    I like Audioquest Rocket 33s I got from Voltz as well.
    They have that poor man's version... can't remember.
    Let me look it up. Need more coffee :p

    ah, yes Audio Advisor has there "no Frills" at well under your budget
    mantis wrote: »
    Audioquest Rocket series. Terminated however you like. I suggest the Silver 500 banana's.
    25ft pr of 44's would run you around $949. You could get into the 33's for around $600 depending on termination.

    They are excellent cables and would be perfect for your rig.

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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,463
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    +1 to maybe trying a DIY with quality bulk and quality connectors.
    I'd give that a shot if you're not already set on a particular favorite brand.

    I'm kind of in a similar boat right now and going to try it to see how it works out.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,057
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    Going Bulk wire is never a bad idea if you get some good stuff, then you can custom make your lengths exactly what you need. I prefer the Audioquest SLP or FLX series 14/4 and you can double up or bi wire with it your choice. Then Terminate with Audio Quest 500 series connectors.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
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    If you ordered 50 foot of Furez 10AWG cable from Doug's DIY section it would be only around $72.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,713
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    25 ft. is a long run? I'd use 12 gauge, which is already overkill.
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,066
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    http://www.wireworldcable.com/speaker-cables.html

    I'm not sure if you could get two 25 foot runs of the Solstice 7 for under a grand but I have heard good things about their products. I myself am interested in a couple of 25 foot runs of the Horizon to try out on my rears on my HT. I plan on getting a Stratus power cord 2 meter. DK I think you should consider the Solstice 7.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
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    voltz wrote: »
    If you ordered 50 foot of Furez 10AWG cable from Doug's DIY section it would be only around $72.

    I thought about going DIY again. The current cables are made from some bulk Monster Z2 Reference.
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    25 ft. is a long run?

    For me it is. A "normal" run is 8 to 10 feet.
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    I'd use 12 gauge, which is already overkill.

    If I were cabling a home theater or garage system, where I would not be interested in the finer points of stereophonic performance, I would agree with you. As my original post stated, I am already using Monster Z2 Reference, which is 12 gauge.

    I compared 15 foot runs of Monster Z2 Reference (12 ga.) and Monster Z3 Reference (10 ga.) in my former home office system and the Z3 was a clear winner in the stereophonic performance areas of clarity, detail, image weight, image placement, tactile sensation, bass weight, bass detail, bass clarity, and bass articulation.

    For this work office application, where I often can't play at normal listening levels, gains in low level resolution are important...to me.



    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,463
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    great info in here for perspective on your goal with your cabling in this project. interested to see how you end up and your impressions.
    I compared 15 foot runs of Monster Z2 Reference (12 ga.) and Monster Z3 Reference (10 ga.) in my former home office system and the Z3 was a clear winner in the stereophonic performance areas of clarity, detail, image weight, image placement, tactile sensation, bass weight, bass detail, bass clarity, and bass articulation.

    ps. lol to this quote in your signature
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    I disabled signatures.
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
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    If you do follow Steve's advise and think about some WireWorld Cables there is this Dude at "Audio Thesis" you should talk to B)
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
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    I ordered a 25" pair of Doug's 9+ AWG DCF92 cables with Furutech FT-211 spades.

    Polk recommends that users of "overkill" custom toroidal AI-1 interfaces use the same cable gauge for speaker wire as they use for the AI-1's cables. My DIY AI-1 cables are "pure overkill" 9.5 AWG Cardas Litz wire, so the DCF92 cables are a better match for them.

    The 9.5 AWG Cardas cables replaced a more expensive, but lower performing, pair of Monster Cable Z3 Reference cables.



    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,071
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    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Polk recommends that users of "overkill" custom toroidal AI-1 interfaces...
    I'm curious, who used the word overkill?

    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
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    Nightfall wrote: »
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Polk recommends that users of "overkill" custom toroidal AI-1 interfaces...
    I'm curious, who used the word overkill?

    One of the usual anti-high performance audio cable, anti-audiophile suspects. >:)
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    25 ft. is a long run? I'd use 12 gauge, which is already overkill.

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,071
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    I gotcha. I was reading it as somebody *at* Polk said it was overkill.

    He is on my hide list and I tend to (try) skip over quotes of said usual suspects.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited July 2015
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    I doubt if the word overkill is in Polk's vocabulary. After all, they were the ones who brought the notorious Cobra speaker cables to market and they were the ones who started me on the path to SDA modifications.

    To be frank, the entire system is overkill for an office rig. Therefore, overkill cables fit right in.
    Post edited by DarqueKnight on
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited July 2015
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    Deleted...double post.

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    DK, have you done the BDP-2 sound card upgrade?
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
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    Yes, I have one on order, but I ordered it out of curiosity because I don't use the coax output on either of my BDP-2s, and the upgrade only affects the AES and coax outputs. The office BDP-2 uses the DAC-100's USB input. The two channel BDP-2 uses a USB output to a dCS U-Clock master clock.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
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    Insanity.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,463
    edited July 2015
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    nbrowser wrote: »
    hrm if 12 gauge over 25 feet is overkill...then what may I ask is 12 gauge over an 16 inch run?
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Insanity.
    PSSSSSHHH... underachievers.

    I disabled signatures.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
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    DarqueKnight, can you help an old guy out with failing memory?
    You found that quality USB cables sound the same. no diff?
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
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    The Cable you ordered from Doug is what I'm currently using with my Monitor 10's and really like them. I also used them with my DIY speakers I made.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
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    rednedtugent wrote: »
    DarqueKnight, can you help an old guy out with failing memory?
    You found that quality USB cables sound the same. no diff?

    For both USB and coax cables, I found that it depended on the cables and associated equipment.

    Here is the thread:

    digital-interconnect-cables-whats-your-experience

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
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    thanks DK!
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
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    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Interconnects will be either:

    1. Signal Cable Silver Resolution Reference XLR (copper),
    2. Signal Cable Analog Two XLR (copper/silver hybrid), or
    3. PS Audio xStream Resolution Reference (silver).

    USB cable will be a Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver (silver - either dual conduit or split conduit configuration).

    The XLR ICs above are from my spare stock. I have not done XLR IC evaluations in the office rig yet. When I had them in my main two channel system PSAxRR>>SCRR>>SCAT.

    There are a couple of typos in the above quote. The Analog Two is copper and the Silver Resolution is the copper/silver hybrid.

    A surprising result with the XLR IC trials. This time the Signal Cable Silver Resolution Reference won. In order of best clarity, detail, and imaging performance, the results were:

    1. Signal Cable Silver Resolution Reference XLR (copper/silver hybrid, $229 for 3 foot pair),
    2. Signal Cable Analog Two XLR (copper, $106 for three foot pair), or
    3. PS Audio xStream Resolution Reference (silver, $500 for one meter pair).

    With the previous amp and preamp, I did not hear a difference between the Revelation Audio Labs Dual Conduit USB cable and the Split Configuration USB cable that allows the power cable to be disconnected after the USB connection is established. After the Adcom GFP-750 and Adcom 565SE were installed, removing the USB's power leg resulted in apparently louder sound and a little more clarity, particularly in the bass region.

    Office%20Sys%20Dk-sJPG_zpstke1ulzb.jpg
    Figure 1. Bryston BDP-2 digital player, Adcom GFP-750 preamp, Cary Audio DAC-100 digital to analog converter. This is the third GFP-750 I have owned.

    GFA-565SE%20Front-New-s_zpspcwfkoms.jpg
    Figure 2. Adcom GFA-565SE power amp. The 565SE's noise performance, and sound, is significantly better than my former GFA-555 MkII, which was traded in.

    GFA-565SE%20On%20Floor-s_zpsknr0oyoa.jpg
    Figure 3. The GFA-565SE sits in an out of the way corner under my u-shaped desk. The plastic sheeting on the face plate protects against accidental contact. Behind the 565SE is a PS Audio Dectet power conditioner with PS Audio Statement SC power cord.

    I had mixed results with replacing the fuses in all the electronics with HiFi Tuning Classic Gold fuses. These fuses are discontinued and are now being offered at closeout prices. The biggest improvement was with the power amp, then the preamp, then a subtle improvement with the DAC, then no improvement with the BDP-2 digital player.

    My office system transformation will be complete once the speaker cables and a tablet computer for controlling the BDP-2 are received. My initial goal was just to replace the CD player with a DAC and digital player, but it snowballed into a complete replacement of all the electronics and cables. The only thing remaining from the old system is the SDA CRS+ loudspeakers.

    005%20Bookcase%20Wall-cor-s_zpstgloy0iw.jpg
    Figure 4. SDA CRS+ loudspeakers (hot-rodded). The center to center distance of the CRS+s is 7 feet. I sit in the center 7 feet back. The sound stage extends wall to wall and curves along the side walls in a crescent shape. On some music, sound images in the center extend beyond the wall.



    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • tophatjohnny
    tophatjohnny Posts: 4,164
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    tonyb wrote: »
    Hard one Ray....but I do think the gear is deserving of better than Signal cable wire. 25 FT. is the problem though, that's some coinage. Maybe you can find a long pair of Analysis plus Oval 12's for those CRS's. Maybe buy bulk from the Cable Company and add your own connectors.

    I am digging my Analysis Plus cables (different model than Tony mentioned) n but the 12 footers I have weren't that expensive and sound real nice!
    "if it's not fun, it's not worth it & remember folks, "It's All About The Music"!!
    *****************************
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