Pioneer to stop Plasma manifacturing, will you buy one?
Comments
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Some facts from an experienced electronic geek:
Many LCD can burn, you just never see it happen really. If you put your lcd on 4:3 for 6 months, it will burn. My boss did it with its sharp lcd and its tv went to garbage. Our 12 19'' LCD screen at work are burned on PC webpages showns on them all day long ! It's a fact! LCD do burn, but it takes more time. Some better TFT LCD are more resistant to burn-in.
1080p plasma from panasonic from example are so resistant to burn-in that you can put them 12hours on pause and when you hit play, no burn-in ( I tried severals time at my work with my collegues).
Energy use is also a fact. While LCD do consume less energy, plasma is not bad at all, averaging only 20-30% more energy use. You should not hesitate to buy it for only this minor difference on your electricity bill for the quality of the picture you get. It's like saying that you prefer a tv with a lower picture quality to save 30$/year energy ??
SD tv is better on plasma. Sure it doesnt look as good as your old tube tv, this is normal. You old tube tv only has 400-500 lines of resolution, not 1080. so sending 400 lines of resolution with S-video or 280lines with Rca on a tube is very nice, not cool with a 1080p panel.
I've own panasonic 42px77, samsung 4273, sony 40xbr4 and currently own samsung 4264. SD/HD was nicer on every plasma than on the xbr4 once tv is calibrated. Calibration is very important. Plasma get very hot when not calibrated( like in the store), once calibrated they are lukewarm to the touch.
The night and day difference I talk about is really on colors reproduction of plasma compared to regular LCD ( no Led lid) and using non-HD game console.
I prefer sxrd over DLP technology for many reasons. -
polkseller wrote: »Many LCD can burn, you just never see it happen really. If you put your lcd on 4:3 for 6 months, it will burn. My boss did it with its sharp lcd and its tv went to garbage. Our 12 19'' LCD screen at work are burned on PC webpages showns on them all day long ! It's a fact! LCD do burn, but it takes more time. Some better TFT LCD are more resistant to burn-in.
OK. I grant ya, if you leave a static image on an LCD display for 6 months straight, youll have "burn in". Its actually not burn in but rather the crystals get locked into a position that can leave images on your screen. That being said, I still feel pretty safe in saying that it just aint gonna happen with a TV. For one thing, youll be switching between movies in widescreen and some 16:9 content. 2nd, everytime you turn your TV off it releases - for lack of a better word - the crystals from whatever position theyre in.1080p plasma from panasonic from example are so resistant to burn-in that you can put them 12hours on pause and when you hit play, no burn-in ( I tried severals time at my work with my collegues).
I remember a magazine or somebody did a test where they left an image on the screen of a plasma (Panny I think) for 48 hours straight and although there was image retention, 30 minutes of normal full screen viewing and the retention was gone. That sounds good to me. If there werent any problem with IR, plasma would be the perfect TV!SD tv is better on plasma. Sure it doesnt look as good as your old tube tv, this is normal. You old tube tv only has 400-500 lines of resolution, not 1080. so sending 400 lines of resolution with S-video or 280lines with Rca on a tube is very nice, not cool with a 1080p panel.
Ill take your word for it as youve owned them where Ive only seen them in stores. But it always seems the LCD's have the better SD via coax cable than a plasma. I know the JVC LCD for one is highly touted for its upconversion and has about the best SD picture quality of all TV's from what Ive read.I prefer sxrd over DLP technology for many reasons.
With ya on this one. Too bad Sony quit making it. They were the best. I know JVC did but I dont know how much longer theyll be around.polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st
polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D -
The SD picture quality of fixed pixel 1080p displays have more to do with the image processing/scaling chip than with the technology of the panel itself. Just because there are alot of bargain brand LCD manufacturers that use piss poor processing chips compared to the handful of plasma manufacturers doesn't take away from the fact that there are PLENTY of good LCD manufacturers who use good processing chips and the SD picture will be just as good on an LCD.
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I've had my Sony XBR5 46" LCD for a couple of days now. I have to say that the SD PQ is outstanding. Not sure what others are using as a comparison, but I have no problem with the SD picture, either from my cable box or from DVD.
I also have the Cambridge Audio 540Dv2 upscaling DVD player, and the 1080i feed to the TV produces an incredible picture. I have a Toshiba X2 player borrowed for a few days, and in comparison the CA 540D has the better picture, and better sound.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
Ive been saving up for a flat panel for a while now for my new house and as much as I want a plasma for their better PQ, I just cant talk myself into buying one.
The biggest reason is burn in. I know, I know - if you jump thru all the hoops and properly break it in during the first FEW MONTHS (!) you may not ever have a problem with it. Thats all well and good but for one, I will be watching mostly SD off my satellite and would rather see it in 4:3 rather than stretched all over the screen or some of the picture cropped off in order to fit. And seeing as how the manuals in plasma TV's state not to use 4:3 mode, that is a big strike.
Second strike is I routinely enjoy playing my Xbox and green globs aside, I dont want to have to worry about health meters being permanently burned in. I know, I know - all you have to do is watch some full screen TV for 20-30 minutes and itll clear that ghost image right up. Yeah, that wont be a PITA to do every single time I finish playing.
Third strike is the whole "having to break it in for 3 months" thing. I mean, good grief. Here is your new $1500 TV. Enjoy it....just dont watch it?!?!
Fourth strike is that all the reviews and what Ive seen in CC and BB showrooms, plasmas have horrible SD picture quality. And again since Ill be watching a lot of SD programming until Feb 9th when it all goes HD, that is a big issue.
Fifth strike is even if I do jump thru all these hoops and do everything in my power to ensure never getting burn in, my wife is pretty dingy when it comes to electronics and it is not beyond her at all to pause a DVD or leave it in 4:3 or something for 2 hours while she talks on the phone to her sister that she's already talked to 15 times today.
LCD has only one strike - motion blur which I have never really seen and the better sets have almost eliminated it. Well 2 strikes when you consider theyre around $200 more versus a comparable size plasma.
As for LCD picture quality, so long as you get a quality set, itll be 95% as good as a plasma on HD material and better on SD material.
So while plasma may have a better picture, the LCD's picture isnt far behind at all and in some cases even better plus you have none of the issues that plasma has. I dont think plasmas are on their way out, as they would work very well in a HT only setting when used strictly for movies - but for those of use that need it to do everything from movies, tv to games, the LCD is the better fit at this time (and its wife proof!)
I think you've got your facts a little mixed up:
1.)Don't trust what you see on a showroom. Plasmas absolutely kill lcds on standard def. I'm a supervisor for one of Circuit City's tv/home audio departments, and before, I was a home theater installer for them (still do the more difficult and custom work that we don't trust Firedog to not **** up royally). From what I've seen in the house, Plasmas win on SD hands down, and they have a much more realistic picture (helps when you have 12 bit color, and the best LCDs are only 10 bit; a difference of about 66 Billion colors). I've had several customers buy sony xbr 4s, and samsung 71 series lcds, and end up swapping them out for Panasonic 700 and 77s, because LCDs blow on SD.
In terms of SD Performance, I'd rank the technologies as so:
1.)Good Ole-fashonied CRT
2.) CRT Projection
3.)LCoS (SXRDs and D-ILAS)
4.)LCD Rear-Projection
5.)Plasma
6.)DLP
7.)LCD
2.) Burn-in is really not an issue anymore, unless you buy some POS brand like Zenith, Philips, Vizio, etc. Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, Fujitsu, Hitachi, and others really don't have an issue at all. Its normal to get temporary image retension, but it not true burn in. It lasts about a day or so, and is soooo faint that you'd have to run a white screen to see it. We've got a 42" Panasonic PX75U (along with a 55" SXRD
), where we've ran split screen Halo 3 on it for hours on end (4:3 picture on split screen, with halo's health bars up there constantly), and got no burn-in whatsoever.
3.) The Feb 2009 Switch? Soooo much misinformation on that. That is only affecting Over-the-Air (antenna) broadcasts. They are going from analog to digital. Not HD (although most local networks already broadcast in HD over-the-air anyways). The reason they are switching is because they need to free up the airways for 911 and other emergency communications (they had a serious problem with this on 9/11). Cable companies don't have to go full digital until 2012. Satellite has always been digital by nature of how the system works. That being said, by next year there will be a bunch of HD channels. DirecTV has 85 already.
4.)As for your wife? The TV's not in the kitchen, so why is she watching it? (j/k) -
There are still some other good high-end plasmas out there, like Runco and Fujitsu. Hitachi, another good brand, had a very impressive plasma, that got upstaged by Pioneer at the CES show because while itself was super thin, it wasn't quite as think as the Kuro. The Hitachis you see at big-box stores, like Circuit City, Best Buy, Sears, etc. suck balls. Thats because Hitachi doesn't market their higher-end screens to these company's corporate buyers. the HDS52s and HDS69s were incredible.
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jfeinman - did the LCD fairy **** in your coffee? I have to say after spending 6 mos looking at both technologies, that from a PQ standpoint there's very little difference that matters outside of the test bench. SD looks great on the LCD's I have been considering. From a non-PQ standpoint the LCD's have the advantage, and that's one reason they are selling so well. If the EU and other countries go through with plans to ban plasma manufacturing and sales, then it's going to be a tough row for the plasma technology.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
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Don't bother trying to reason, you're talking to a brick wall. LCD did look alot worse a few years ago and some people will never let that go.
Who are you gonna believe? Me or your lying eyes? -
jfeinman - did the LCD fairy **** in your coffee? I have to say after spending 6 mos looking at both technologies, that from a PQ standpoint there's very little difference that matters outside of the test bench. SD looks great on the LCD's I have been considering. From a non-PQ standpoint the LCD's have the advantage, and that's one reason they are selling so well. If the EU and other countries go through with plans to ban plasma manufacturing and sales, then it's going to be a tough row for the plasma technology.
Plasmas do better with shittier signals. I agree, there are some good lcds for SD, but 90% of it is the signal you are feeding it. If you have a very low compression and no noise in your signal, you can count on a consistent picture thats probably 85% as good as a plasma. If you are using cable, then its a crap shoot.
There's a reason why Consumer Reports gave the Panasonic Plasma the highest rating they've ever given to any TV.
And on reliablity? At our store, which is one of the top sellers of TVs in terms of units sold out of all of the Circuit Citys, we see a lot more problems with LCDs than with plasmas. We also have a much bigger return rate on LCDs as well. -
Nice discussion here. Plasma is king for the moment. Specially pioneer Elite.
I second many knowledgeable guys here.
Jfeinman we are in the same boat !
We also have lot more people that exchange their LCD for plasma in their 30 days satisfaction warranty. When they switch, they are so amazed by the picture quality that they come back to the store to thank us of our great service and knowledge.
Beleive it or not (because It's a true story) Everytime someone comes for a Sony xbr tv, I try to sell him a Pioneer plasma because it the best thing I can do for my customer (I make less money on a pioneer IMO). Sometime it's difficult because of the Sony reputation but they usually takes it and are very happy after. For those that refuse because of other store's **** about plasma or online critics of nobodys, they get the Sony and after 2 weeks they come back because they are not happy for a reason, so we exchange it for the Pioneer and Voil -
Polkseller - Tweeter had the Sony XBR5 on sale for $2499 last weekend. I had a $250 coupon from Sony because they didn't have parts for my other CRT that went bad, and I had a $1500 check from my extended warranty on the old Sony 34" CRT that went bad. The cheapest Panny or Pioneer plasma's of a similar size they had were $2799 or $2999. They did have a stack of 50" 768p Pioneer Kuro for $1999.
Overall, I just like LCD better. Kind of the same thing as why we all like different speakers.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
Polkseller and JFeinman - You make a lot of good points (very interested in plasmas having more returns) and may wind up convincing me to get a plasma.
99% of my experience has been on the Circuit City showroom floor. Ive had them switch from Comcast HD to analog and more LCD's look better than plasmas. Now I realize there are a lot of variables and thats not a true scientific comparison. So Ill take y'alls word for it that plasmas will have better SD reception.
As for picture quality, I still maintain that a properly set up LCD can still look amazing and while not up to the plasmas PQ, can still come in not too far off. That being said I do prefer the PQ of the plasma. Skin tones in general always look more realistic to me.
Circuit City has a display setup with a 50" Sammy LED DLP, a 50" Panny and a 46" Samsung LCD and while they are all very close, I always come down with the plasma which while it doesnt have the same "pop" as the LCD, it just looks more realistic.
As for the burn in, you guys are convincing me to take a chance on one. This is one instance where Id love to be wrong. You can get 42" quality plasmas right now for under $1000 while LCD's are $300+ more.
Two questions - what about the break in period. From what I understand for the first 2 months or so of owning a plasma, you arent supposed to watch 4:3 for more than 5 mintues or so and video games are a no-no.
- I was under the impression Hitatchi was kinda in the same ballpark as Phillips or Sanyo as in not crap but not great. You guys are saying theyre as good as Panny and Sammy? Some awful good prices on Hitatchi plasmas lately.polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st
polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D -
Very informative thread....big thanks to all the retail store vendors.
I'm only considering getting rid of my CRT to save space. And I want something that will last and get as close to PQ of a CRT(not a fanatic about newer technology that does not best older).
Right now I'd like to find something under 50" and under a grand. Looks like I will try my best to go for something plasma.....but I guess if the LCDs offer a good price competition I can't say from what you guys are saying I should rule them out. I think given my budget an LCD is more appropriate.
Who has the most longevity? PQ aside.The SL2000wc wow what a predicament!!!!!:D Order one today.......1-800-429-5423 for direct orders with anyone of the elite ee guys that frequent this forum. -
From what I know from all the crap Ive read over the last couple years, theyre both pretty close. Both of them should last as long if not longer than a CRT set.
Plasma will be cheaper but a couple hundred dollars. Right now the Samsung 42" plasma can be had for $1000 at Circuit City and the Panasonic 42" is $1050. A comparable LCD from Sammy or Sony would run you $1300-1500.polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st
polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D -
My friend got a Mits 65" DLP for something like $1600 for christmas.......not sure exactly where he got it to be honest........and never watched anything on it.
He's a **** moron though, so I'm sure he went with as cheap and basic a set as you can get..........comment comment comment comment. bitchy. -
plasma in general does have better skin tones and less colors irregularities, that's a fact but there's some exeptions.
I explain. Look at the dark grey road pavement on an LCD and on many of them you'll see that is closer to blue than black. Even the sony w3000 and xbr show green/yellow irregularities on the picture. The backlid (blue or pinkish) is bleeding in the picture color. In your room, without comparison with other tv, majority of people wont care about it but it is visible.
Faces look yellowish or greenish from side viewing or direct viewing. Some Black people face's are not the good color or, in general, skin tones/ colors are just a tad undersaturated. Plasma experience is more real life.
Plasma does not have theses problems because it does not have backlid made of neon lights. Also has better side viewing experience and better color stability. Trust your eyes Mcload.
Sure some LCD are better than other, good luck finding them my friends. Because in the store it is very difficult to find them , specially if you are only looking to the spec or buying from the name.
Some LG are very nice, yes LG. They have one of the best panel on the market with their S-IPS panels viewing angles are the best and colors/processing are nice.
Samsung too (65-71-81 series). Some sharp model ( not all , D72- D92- D64).
Unfortunately, Sony is my last choice because it is overrated and overprice. If you get a very nice discount on it, buy it. If not, buy someting else please. more than 1k $ overprice here xbrs.
Plus, since last year, sony has decided to use LCD panels from the Parent company S-LCD of samsung China. This new factory has no record on reliability/durability, only lower cost products. Sure theses panels offers more brightness, but sony 2006 models were better on colors, black level(no backlid light) and processing. The new panels from this factory also have the rear backlid blue/pink color. The 46w3000 is so ugly.
A friend on mine have the sony 40v2400 2006 model. WOW this tv is close to a Pioneer Elite LCD... Why ?? Simply because it uses the best lcd panel ( samsung S-PVA 7th gen) best Sony Japanese Electronic Bravia Engine( 7 differents picture enhancements steps) + this tv weights a ton).
Wanna know something even more fun ? First 2006 models from sony came From JAPAN( s2000, v2400 etc.), in middle of the 2006 year they switched from Japan to Mexico while maintaining 90% of their quality. I say 90 % because some internal processing was gone like the Faroudja chip in their Japan made TVs. But still, electronic was japanese and the lcd panels were made by samsung korea in the mexico factory instead of sony japan.
This year, only samsung uses the Korean 7th gen panels, only the best S-PVA panels in their tvs. They also make all the electronics. Very good black level and colors accuracy. Less color irregularity than sony. Better quality/ price ratio. -
License2ILL wrote: »Very informative thread....big thanks to all the retail store vendors.
I'm only considering getting rid of my CRT to save space. And I want something that will last and get as close to PQ of a CRT(not a fanatic about newer technology that does not best older).
Right now I'd like to find something under 50" and under a grand. Looks like I will try my best to go for something plasma.....but I guess if the LCDs offer a good price competition I can't say from what you guys are saying I should rule them out. I think given my budget an LCD is more appropriate.
Who has the most longevity? PQ aside.
wait until plasma are cheaper.
New 1080p plasmas are 100 000 H HALF-LIFE , thats 40000h more than a LCD...:rolleyes: Plus it does start full power without Dim unlike LCD. Imagine in 5 years, your LCD will take 2 minutes to get you full picture brightness, your plasma, 10 seconds..
I might sound PRO plasma guy, but I've tested both technologies and for the moment, plasma specially pioneer is king. But I see that some LCD are getting better. I hope the new model from sharp and samsung will raise the bar. -
Yup I'm leaning on plasma for sure. Saw a nice 42inch Samsung for 999.00 at BJ's today.
And I'm pretty sold that 42" is as small as I'd want to go if I go for this relatively expensive upgrade(i'm thrifty what can I say?)
So basically the longevity of both units are matching crt's now?? cuz that was my biggest reservation? considering the investment.
Oh but I must say I saw 50" westinghouse LCD. That was incredibly crisp and colors were dead on did not look cartoonish or overvivid colors. It was under a grand as well.
Those 100 000 hour 1080p(a must when i buy) plasmas are they out already or is some new generation coming? cuz if so they're bound to be expensive when they do debut.
I think I may wait tho...i'll make that my sign on bonus.The SL2000wc wow what a predicament!!!!!:D Order one today.......1-800-429-5423 for direct orders with anyone of the elite ee guys that frequent this forum. -
All current gen 1080p plasma from panasonic are 100K hours half-life. PZ 77 serie. CRT life is more like 30000 hours... anyway crt is dead and low quality now.
42'' samsung plasma are nice , I have one at home (4264). But my last one(4273) did have a problem with lots of blue pixels coming in the corner of the screen after the warranty period. I got the 4264 in exchange for that with my extended warranty.
Panasonic plasma are more reliable, but I still prefer the samsung picture quality overall. Panasonic plasma are better because they all accept 1080p signal and gives little more contrast and little better color decoding than samsung.
If I were you, I'll wait for the next gen samsung and panny coming right now. The current samsung has very small problem with picture Judder occuring each 8 seconds or so. This picture glitch has been adressed with a firmware update found on a samsung FAQ webpage. you can find the info on the avsforum.com
Dont know westinghouse LCD, but I think you should stay with a trusted company and major brands. Even if this westin has ok/good review on the web. -
This upcoming gen's for both Pan and Samsung...there gonna be mighty pricey tho no?
I'm definitely not going over a grand...does that knock me out that race?
Looks like i'm for the Panny.......how's the life on Samsungs?
30K on crt's ? 3.5yrs.....way off on even the turdiest models....sold @kmart.
HD CRT's dont suffer from SD imaging problems....and have no problems with coloring.
HD crt models also had no problems rendering perfectly....and manufacturer's like Samsung and Sony did drop smaller updated HD CRT thin-er versions.
But not as thin as LCD/plasma so here we are....today........ managing and filtering thru which models have the least cons basically. Becuz the products are not perfected.....hence I will not drop real dough on this.
(do wish i had the space and could elevate a Sony HD crt)
Crt is dead I'll give you that but it's not stinking.The SL2000wc wow what a predicament!!!!!:D Order one today.......1-800-429-5423 for direct orders with anyone of the elite ee guys that frequent this forum. -
Sorry to say to you that the remaining CRT on the market are really low quality electronic inside, and no more support from many manifacturers. Even only 3 months warranty on parts on some Sony. 30K hours from crt was good some years ago because it is 14 years 6 1/2 hours a day half life. But now its more like 10k...
My advise is not to buy them at any price. It was a long time ago, a very good tech, but not now. And not futureproof.
Better go with plasma. YEs new models will cost more for some months to come, I think you can buy a panny px75 for cheap now, under a grand. -
When they tried to have my 3 yr old Sony 34" widescreen fixed a couple a months ago, the message was that Sony was no longer supplying picture tubes for them, and that the parts supply overall was drying up. That's why my extended warranty company just offered to invoke the pay-out clause rather than deal with the repair. I agree with Polkseller that I wouldn't touch a CRT TV at the moment as a new purchase. My Sony 27" Trinitron will be relegated to the kids gaming monitor until it goes.
Polkseller - you will be happy to note that I am seriously considering a plasma TV for my bedroom. The kids don't use that TV, and I only use that TV at night.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
- I was under the impression Hitatchi was kinda in the same ballpark as Phillips or Sanyo as in not crap but not great. You guys are saying theyre as good as Panny and Sammy? Some awful good prices on Hitatchi plasmas lately.
The Hitachi plasmas that were discontinued a year were pretty good, but the models that replaced them (H401/T501) are ****. Horrible black levels that many lcd's spank. They also skimped on the system memory, so if you hit a button on the remote, you think it didn't catch the signal because nothing happens. But no, it is just that slow, and the menu will finally pop up after several seconds.
