Pioneer to stop Plasma manifacturing, will you buy one?

polkseller

Release last friday, pioneer electronics annonced that it will soon stop plasma manifacturing.

What do you think about that ? It's not a good new for me. I think pioneer plasma tv, specially elite TV are, no questions asked the best tv out there and the price is good for them considering the quality of them.

I think I will wait for price to go down a bit and instead of buying a 1080p projector like I was supposed to do, buy a nice Elite 50'' 1080p plasma before pioneer decide to use panasonic glass inside their panel and lower price and quality.

The PureVision technology ( crytal emissive layer) and Kuro project ( deep blacks) will never exist again ( even if pio said it will use this tech for the LCD..). The pioneer quality will soon be old story. Like Sony, they will reduce the price and QUALITY to stay on the market or remove their best products.

With all my experience in the electronic industry, It will be soon the time to buy Pioneer plasma if you want one because you'll simply get the best quality for a decent price. Sure price will go lower after, as always, but there is always a time when quality go lower and price too.

Now and very soon, for a limited time, you'll be able to buy the best ever technological plasma for a lower price. The quality/price ratio will never be that good in the future for sure.

The quality will go down to offer to consumer what they want, cheap tv.

Samsung and panasonic are for the moment the only 2 company that gives you year after year better quality product for a lower price.

polkatese

This is I thought a rather disturbing trend in Videophile:

First, Sony abandoned RPTV SXRD technology, despite of the rave reviews of the technology, value, and what customers want.

Now, Pioneer Elite Kuro plasma, with its famous reputation, technology, performance, and price point (let's face it, customers may want it, but the price is rather prohibitive for the general population).

Volume sales in SXRD can justify its existence (I think) even though it might not be able to compete effectively with the current slim design technology.

Volume sales in Kuro might not be sufficient to justify its existence, but the technology and price point were never intended for the general mass.

Are we down to one technology flavor, that is LCD, in the future?

polkseller

http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/907kuro/

one word, prodigious.

This guy is absolutely right about this tv. It's out of this world.

Midnite Mick

Has anyone heard anything recently regarding the whole Tdel/ifire technology?

Mike

tonyb

Oled and sed will be out soon,hold on for another ride.

MacLeod

I thought SED was dead. Something about legal battles and other crap about different companies fighting.

madmax

I would buy one with the understanding that if it craps out in the future a replacement screen may or may not be available. This isn't as bad as it seems because A: a certain quantity of screens will be produced for I/W replacement as well as a number for out of warranty repair, B: Lets face it, if its out of warranty you probably wouldn't replace a display screen due to cost reasons anyway. (cost could be close to the cost of another TV)

With all that said I'm still wondering if you wouldn't be better off getting the projector of your dreams. Other TV's in the future will be better than todays best even if there is a dip in quality in the short term. Its always like that. For half the price you will be able to buy a better performer in two or three years.

polkseller

First polkatese, you have a good point with SXRD tv's.

Sony has also announced that it might stop manifacturing projectors I think...

Lcd tv for the future... I dont think so. Not enought technologically advanced for big size tv. Will not beat pioneer plasma even in 3 years from now, but sure they will look better with time and backlid Led technology will help for sure. Blacks will be equal to Kuro soon.

Madmax, in 3 years, maybe I will find new tech high quality tv , slimmer than the Elite plasma with better contrast and everything will look good in person and specs on paper, but I doubt it will be made like the ELite from all japanese and USA parts only with crystal and high end electronics. And dont forget the new tech always comes with a high price tag, often more than the present technology and might not be reliable or perfected (1st gen).The warranty will be shorter too. Elite/pioneer plasmas are very reliable.

The point here is to buy the Elite for a discount price, like maybe under 3000$. The cost price on the pionner 5010HD brother is around 3300Can $ I think.

fireshoes

polkseller wrote: »

The PureVision technology ( crytal emissive layer) and Kuro project ( deep blacks) will never exist again.

There will still be Pioneer technologies in the new plasmas (and lcd's). They are just having someone else implement those technologies for them.

polkseller

the fact is that these technologies are made for plasma, not LCD. It's the way they are made and thought that makes them unique. No other manifacturer will do the same for them.

The kuro is not make for LCD anyway. The purevision is not part of panasonic patents and/or equipment.

fireshoes

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/08/pioneer-isnt-abandoning-kuro-plasma-expects-same-quality-panel/

dkg999

Sony is now convincing the major studios to only produce movies that work on LCD tv's :rolleyes:

PhantomOG

Nah, don't blame Sony. You can blame me, I just bought a Sony LCD recently. I'm directly responsible for Pioneer shutting down its plasma factories. Its all my fault and my inability to see that LCD technology is just plain bad and a complete waste of money and the absolute worst possible thing to happen to televisions ever. In fact, I'm sure that my recent purchase of an LCD tv will eventually be found to be a major reason behind global warming and the destruction of earth and the human race entirely.

I'm sorry...

dkg999

Phantom - no need to be sorry. I just bought a Sony 46" XBR5 LCD tv, so if we need to repent, then let me join you in line!

PhantomOG

I just feel so guilty for supporting the evil empire... I guess it helps to know that I'm not the only one.

polkseller

....Apparently Pioneer will be still be responsible for the video circuit and processing, the color filter strategy and other such secret sauce, and the company is confident Matsushita can step up to the Pioneer level of panel production -- even if it might involve sharing a few trade secrets along the way. Apparently Matsushita is slated to start providing the modules by 2009...

humm... really dont know what's going on there.

MacLeod

Ive been saving up for a flat panel for a while now for my new house and as much as I want a plasma for their better PQ, I just cant talk myself into buying one.

The biggest reason is burn in. I know, I know - if you jump thru all the hoops and properly break it in during the first FEW MONTHS (!) you may not ever have a problem with it. Thats all well and good but for one, I will be watching mostly SD off my satellite and would rather see it in 4:3 rather than stretched all over the screen or some of the picture cropped off in order to fit. And seeing as how the manuals in plasma TV's state not to use 4:3 mode, that is a big strike.

Second strike is I routinely enjoy playing my Xbox and green globs aside, I dont want to have to worry about health meters being permanently burned in. I know, I know - all you have to do is watch some full screen TV for 20-30 minutes and itll clear that ghost image right up. Yeah, that wont be a PITA to do every single time I finish playing.

Third strike is the whole "having to break it in for 3 months" thing. I mean, good grief. Here is your new $1500 TV. Enjoy it....just dont watch it?!?!

Fourth strike is that all the reviews and what Ive seen in CC and BB showrooms, plasmas have horrible SD picture quality. And again since Ill be watching a lot of SD programming until Feb 9th when it all goes HD, that is a big issue.

Fifth strike is even if I do jump thru all these hoops and do everything in my power to ensure never getting burn in, my wife is pretty dingy when it comes to electronics and it is not beyond her at all to pause a DVD or leave it in 4:3 or something for 2 hours while she talks on the phone to her sister that she's already talked to 15 times today.

LCD has only one strike - motion blur which I have never really seen and the better sets have almost eliminated it. Well 2 strikes when you consider theyre around $200 more versus a comparable size plasma.

As for LCD picture quality, so long as you get a quality set, itll be 95% as good as a plasma on HD material and better on SD material.

So while plasma may have a better picture, the LCD's picture isnt far behind at all and in some cases even better plus you have none of the issues that plasma has. I dont think plasmas are on their way out, as they would work very well in a HT only setting when used strictly for movies - but for those of use that need it to do everything from movies, tv to games, the LCD is the better fit at this time (and its wife proof!)

dkg999

And the LCD is more child proof when the kids fall asleep and the PS2 game screen is left on all night. Plus the LCD's use about 30% of the electricity of a plasma. Gotta give it to plasma on total PQ, but the LCD is alot more life friendly.

brettw22

The power consumption of Plasma's would keep me away, but I believe I read somewhere that they're now being relased as energy star compliant machines and the energy usage has been reduced.........

polkseller

I'm sorry to say that you are all wrong about plasma power consumption. It around the same has LCD tv, maybe just 20% more once calibrated and at the end of the year, not much more like you said dkg. Fill up the tank in your car twice and that'S the price of energy for one year.

Not to start a debate here on plasma vs lcd but plasma is child proof because of the glass on it instead of the fragile plastic lcd surface.

Using your LCD on 4:3 mode will burn any tv over time, even a LCD. It's this technology worst secret including the lower latency of the Liquid crystal over time and rapid loss of brightness.Trust me.

The plasma has better picture on any SD content, period. The picture you saw in the store has problems for sure. Every test proved it. The plasma also look better tnan lcd's on any non-HD game console including Wii, playstation 2 xbox 1. It's like night and day.

panasonic and pioneer plasma comes already broke-in. no need to bother. Calibrate it and enjoy. Burn-in on the pioneer and panasonic 1080p will never happen really. I game on my samsung plasma without problem and it'S not even close to the same quality of phospor and durability of the pioneer or panasonic..

brettw22

I assure you that a Plasma is burning a lot more than 20% more electricity......all you have to do is touch the damn thing.......all that heat is your electricity goin out the window.......or it's basically a 2in one device.........a HDTV and a space heater........

I like the picture of them, but they're seeming to cap them at 50" for the most part, with not a lof of them going much into the 60+ areas......(but those that are, are sometimes 3-5x what the LCD equivelant is....

I'm waiting until they come up with something that replaces the insane $300 light bulb. If that's LED's, great.......those things don't have the burnout problems normal lights do and their power consumption is minimal.

DLP has the best blacks of them all, but the big push seems to be LCD's, which i won't ever do because one burnt pixel is all it would take for me to go apeshit after paying a few grand for a tv.....

I saw a 73" DLP Mitsubishi in Best Buy for something like $3300.......that was just fun to look at............but probably too big for anything other than a dedicated (and huge) HT room....The next set I get is going to be a 65" though, so that's what i'm focused on.

venomclan

I am in the same boat and need a flat screen soon for a very small (9.5 x 9.5) man cave room in my garage. I was set on plasma since this will be a dark, no window room. But its power consumption and heat kills me. They are trying to ban plasmas in Europe altogether. The LCD's have gotten a lot better of late and seems to be pulling ahead.
Venom

WilliamM2

Fourth strike is that all the reviews and what Ive seen in CC and BB showrooms, plasmas have horrible SD picture quality. And again since Ill be watching a lot of SD programming until Feb 9th when it all goes HD, that is a big issue.

SD doesn't look all that great on LCD either, I don't think it looks good on any of the new technologies. As far as everything going HD on Feb. 9th, that is incorrect. Everything goes digital on Feb. 9th, but not necessarily HD. And this only applies to broadcast stations, the cable companies don't have to change a thing.

fireshoes

Actually, all broadcast stations are supposed to be digital already. Feb 17th just turns off the analog broadcast.

brettw22

THe people I'm living with have a 50" Pioneer and I was surprised how horrible SD looks on these things.......My old CRT looked a lot better........it's why I'm not in a rush to go out and get a HD set for now.....paying all that money for most of the channels to look like **** doesn't make sense. I know, movies etc are where it's at, but I'm not always watching movies.......at least, not lately.....

Btw..........W(hy)TF doesn't ABC have a HD channel?

PhantomOG

ABC does do HD. Maybe your local station isn't broadcasting it yet?

Complaints about SD picture also depend on how your getting the SD signal to the tv. For instance, I have dish network, with the DVR hooked up to my TV via HDMI. Even SD signals are upscaled to 1080 by the DishDVR so if the SD signal looks like crap, its not the tv's fault. Before I bought my LCD, I was concerned about the SD picture, but it actually looks damn good. For some reason, the locals feeds in SD over Dish look crappy, but I just watch the HD OTA instead. All the other SD channels look great.

I did extensive research before buying my LCD and I know for a fact that there isn't a "night and day" difference between it and any plasma out there. Sure plasmas might have better blacks... LCD has better whites. As much as people want to hate on LCD's, the current gen stuff looks damn good and it keeps getting better. No burn-in/IR, no reflections, no heat, lighter weight... this list goes on and on.

I have no problem with plasma tv's. Why the hell do plasma owners feel the need to bash LCD's? I just don't get it. Some kinda insecurity I guess.

polkatese

ABC does have HD Channel, in fact, all of their local news here (KABC) is in HD. Ironically, National News is not, exactly the opposite of NBC.

PhantomOG

polkatese wrote: »

Ironically, National News is not, exactly the opposite of NBC.

WTF is up with that too? My po-dunk local station can afford HD cameras (which look amazingly good), but all the national stations can't get with it? Makes no sense.

polkatese

I know, it doesn't make sense....

dkg999

Well my real world experience with plasma vs LCD doesn't mirror the comments that Polkseller made. When thinking child proof, I don't worry as much about kids touching the screen as leaving video game screens up all night after they fall asleep. I have friends who have both LCD and plasma, and they have learned not to let the kids and their friends use the plasma. They've had to have the anti-burnin software run many times on the plasma until they wised up. Also, if you hook the electical usage meter up on both of them, the Panny plasma (700Z) is using almost twice the electricity during use and standby than the Sony XBR4, and both are similar sized screens. The Panny also shuts down due to heat if the summer sun is shinning through the skylights and heating up the room and the a/c isn't on. The LCD is in the actual sun room and never has an issue. Plasma definetely has the PQ, but just doesn't work for me on all the other points.

MacLeod

Im with Brett in that I prefer DLP's over both plasma and LCD. You get a great picture, almost as good as a plasma but you get none of the negative things. No burn in, no motion blur no nothing. However if you manage to get one home before it tears up on you, youve accomplished something. Either the color wheel or some other such thing is going to go out on you and then youre going to have to deal with that crap. Just read some of the reviews on CC and BB and even AVSforum. Nightmares about being months without a set while they fight with the manufacturer (Mitsubishi seems to be the worst). The new LED set from Samsung seems to be the ticket. Both CC and BB website reviews are pretty good and there arent really any complaints of reliability issues.

And LCD's dont burn in unless theyre defective. They would be worthless as computer monitors if they suffered from burn in.