Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD?

Just talked with Denon support after a 45 minutes wait. I got a 3808 to take advantage of all the new audio formats, but as someone also posted, the AVR is not decoding True HD or DD+. All I get is "Multichannel In" in the screen. Also, I only get 5.1 in. I am using HDMI. My player is the HD-A30.
So I called Denon to complain that the AVR was not working as expected, or maybe I was doing something wrong.

The guy stopped me before I finished and said "I answer this question 10 times a day; Denon products have the capability of decoding all these formats, but there is NOT ONE HD or Blue Ray player in the market that can pass the new audio formats through HDMI!!!!!!!!". He started talking about some thechnical stuff but I was so pissed that did not pay attention.

WTF??? Toshiba is marketing their players as capable of passing these new formats :mad::mad::mad:

I need to call Toshiba but don't have the time right now. Will post additional findings later...

Right; Toshiba confirmed that as of today, ONLY the HD-A35 is capable of passing the new formats to be decoded by the AVR. All others are passing "the players version" of the new formats, which is NOT the real thing. I asked him on firmware upgrades for the A-30, but he said he knew nothing.
Now, is it me and my poor English or this is NOT what the instructions and other literature say?

Obviously, I am going to return the A-30 and get the A-35.

millerman 3732 wrote: »

I read over ay AVS that alot of people with the A35 couldn't tell any difference between the player decoding the new formats and there AVR decoding them.

I agree, there should be no difference as long as the AVR provides the three levels of processing on incoming PCM signal (i-e Bass Management, Delay Management, Audessy EQ, converting 5.1 to 7.1).

I believe most AVR do the first two so there shouldn't be an issue along as you don't need to tweak signal via Audessy EQ or want to convert 5.1 to 7.1.

Ricardo, you don't need to change your player as you wouldn't get any audible benefits, Player doing the decoding or AVR doing the decoding is the same thing.

only like 2 movies are 7.1 right now. so be sure to let us know how 'real' 7.1 sounds.

Ricardo wrote: »

I know, but there are a lot of 6.1, and I expect that more will come

6.1 HD DVD's? I didn't think there where that many, and will the A30 not pass a 7.1 PCM signal over the HDMI output?

Again, if my XA2 is connected to my preamp via 5.1 analog, the XA2 will process Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTSHD MA, right? The preamp doesn't have decoders for those formats, but via analog letting the player decode will give me the new sound formats right?

Ethancf wrote: »

Again, if my XA2 is connected to my preamp via 5.1 analog, the XA2 will process Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTSHD MA, right? The preamp doesn't have decoders for those formats, but via analog letting the player decode will give me the new sound formats right?

that's correct...

Ethancf wrote: »

Again, if my XA2 is connected to my preamp via 5.1 analog, the XA2 will process Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTSHD MA, right? The preamp doesn't have decoders for those formats, but via analog letting the player decode will give me the new sound formats right?

I listen to everything now through 5.1 analog. I find it sounds much fuller. Exceptions , are a few 6.1 movies I have (SW -EX, LOTR 6.1).

The analog difference is amazing compared to the digital. The analog is much more even, vocals are better, dynamic range is better, there is better balance between speaker channels. On Transformers, the surround sound channels are clearer as is the center. I dont have to turn the AVR as loud to hear the quiet things, like talking or slight surround noises. I'm thinking its the player, because watching SD through the XA1, its better analog also. So when watching a disk, the HK ussually just stays on 6 channel direct.

Silverti wrote: »

Thats interesting. I watched Transformers again last night (HDMI on A30) and I dont know what the deal is with the movie but I have to run it at 5 on my Onkyo to get that volume up vs 15 on all of my normal movies.

Well from -80 to 0 ,on my HK, I ussually listen between -25 and -16, depending on the movie. But with 6 channel direct analog, I'm -35 to -25. So alot louder on analog and better sounding (with dynamic range and clearity)

LuSh wrote: »

As I've mentioned earlier - HD DVD will always have issues decoding DTS HD Master Audio because of authoring issues. The HD A35 was suppose to fix this but I have yet to hear it. Not all decoders are equal and therefore there should be audible differences between receivers and source players. The amount of total chaos within this thread is proof enough how poorly HD DVD and Blu Ray were marketed for audio quality improvements in the first place. People should be interested in the Bit-rates, not so much the extra channel of information.

The Samsung BDP 1400 needs a firmware upgrade to unlock the Bit-stream within the player for lossless. No Toshiba other then the newly released A35 supports bit-stream...no Toshiba player supports DTS MA decoding either...if you read the fine print the DTS HD support is core only (not master audio).

I'm new to all of this and I have the AX2. Is this why in HD I always show PCM in my recievers window? I have the Pioneer VSX-74TXVi and I go HDMI to the reciever and from their to the TV. The TV is DVI, but I use a HDMI cable and attach a DVI plug to it for the TV (video anyway as the sound is handled by the reciever to the speakers). If I change the AX2 to Downmix PCM, the reciever will let me make any changes on output like I was showing standard DVD. If I change to PCM, then I get PCM (can't remember) IIx. If I watch in either Downmix or Multi, the sound has to be ajusted from -28 to around -16. So just where in all of this do I get True HD sound? Although I do hear a improvement overall when the movie is in DD plus. I guess that you have to have a new HD reciever and TV that does 1.3 HDMI to get the full True HD sound.

Bill

Hey Ricardo, have you tried this out yet? is what this guy saying true, do you lose the secondary audio track when you let the AVR do the decoding? If this is the case I may be sticking with my HK a little longer than I thought.



Shane C. Buettner of "UltimateAVMag.com" said it didn't matter where the decoding was done.

http://ultimateavmag.com/surroundsou...ors/1007anthem


Quote:

As far as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio goes, I know these are being sold as compelling events for which you should upgrade your AVR or pre/pro. This is false advertising. There is no performance advantage whatsoever we can see to decoding these formats in the AVR, and to the contrary there are some serious disadvantages. If you decode in the AVR or pre/pro you lose all secondary audio streams and cripple the interactivity features of both Blu-ray and HD DVD, and for no good reason.

And secondary audio isn't just obnoxious button click sounds in the menus. If you select a Picture-In-Picture stream, you'll get picture with no sound. Kinda takes the fun out of it. And again, there is no performance advantage to decoding in the AVR or pre/pro. As soon as an AVR or pre/pro decodes a compressed stream it in fact turns it into PCM for processing. We've heard no qualitative issues, so far, from doing this conversion in the player.

Well, I have no idea if I'm losing any secondary audio...and couldn't care less, but I guess if this is true and someone likes to do picture in picture while watching a movie (which i can't get either), this would be a disadvantage.