Bi-amp'd SDA 1.2TLs

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
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    warlocks1 wrote:
    Don't amps have different output levels? Can one amp put out more sound at a cetain output level which can cause either the lower or high end to output too much sound? I used to run my system with 5 Carver amps all bridged and had to use a SPL meter to balance all the speakers. Is this not the same as biamping with 2 different amps? Thanks, Jeff

    Jeff I don't know the answer to this one. I'm passing this one off the a more knoweldgable member. I just know that there is nothing that sounds out of balance or lopsided volume wise between the lows and highs.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
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    Mike Reeter wrote:
    Joe,what an excellent write up and experience...I now have a Parasound HCA-1500A driving our 2.3's,and I've thinking for quite a while about bi-amping the upper end with an HCA-1000A.

    Your thread has me on the hunt for another amp.

    Thanks, Mike I can't see how bi-amping with another Parasound can do anything but improve the experience.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited March 2007
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    Great writeup Joe. Thanks.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited March 2007
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    warlocks1 wrote:
    Don't amps have different output levels? Can one amp put out more sound at a cetain output level which can cause either the lower or high end to output too much sound? I used to run my system with 5 Carver amps all bridged and had to use a SPL meter to balance all the speakers. Is this not the same as biamping with 2 different amps? Thanks, Jeff

    That is correct, the different amps must have identical amounts of gain to have balanced sound. If not, a way to reduce the gain of the highest level amp to equal the gain of the lowest level amp should be used.



    Nice write up, Joe.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,328
    edited March 2007
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    F1nut wrote:
    That is correct, the different amps must have identical amounts of gain to have balanced sound. If not, a way to reduce the gain of the highest level amp to equal the gain of the lowest level amp should be used.

    Jesse, I've wondered about this also. What's you opinion about balancing the two "unequal" amps? Would you suggest test tones and a SPL meter? Or is this more of an "acquired" balance where you ears should be your best guide?

    I think you did an excellent writeup Joe! Congrats on the "audio achievement"!
    Carl

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
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    schwarcw wrote:
    Jesse, I've wondered about this also. What's you opinion about balancing the two "unequal" amps? Would you suggest test tones and a SPL meter? Or is this more of an "acquired" balance where you ears should be your best guide?

    I think you did an excellent writeup Joe! Congrats on the "audio achievement"!

    Thanks guys for the compliments.

    The cool thing about these Parasound amps is that you can adjust the input level. Mine has a one for each channel and Parasound recommends setting and forgetting to the highest level which as I said previously, I've lucked out on the synergy of not only the amps but my rig overall.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited March 2007
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    I used a front/rear fader from alpine to regulate the signal on my setup.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited March 2007
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    Carl, Damned if I know as I've never crossed that bridge. :)

    Joe, I know some (maybe all) Parasound amps have a gain control on the back panel, but it adjusts the output level, not the input. So, you lucked out and feel the levels are equal. There ya go, good to go.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
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    F1nut wrote:
    Carl, Damned if I know as I've never crossed that bridge. :)

    Joe, I know some (maybe all) Parasound amps have a gain control on the back panel, but it adjusts the output level, not the input. So, you lucked out and feel the levels are equal. There ya go, good to go.

    Jess I thought it was the output level too but the manual says input level.
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,328
    edited March 2007
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    hearingimpared wrote:
    The cool thing about these Parasound amps is that you can adjust the input level. Mine has a one for each channel and Parasound recommends setting and forgetting to the highest level which as I said previously, I've lucked out on the synergy of not only the amps but my rig overall.

    Parasound makes really nice amps. I wish I had another A21 to biamp my 2.3's!!!

    HaloA23.jpg
    Carl

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited March 2007
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    All I can say to that is, HUH?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
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    F1nut wrote:
    All I can say to that is, HUH?

    Here it is:

    "Level Controls

    Each channel has its own rear mounted "set and forget" input level control. Your amplifier sounds best with these level controls set to maximum, where they are effectively out of the audio signal path. However, if your preamplifier has very high gain, and its volume control cannot track properly for left-right channel balance near its minimum postition, it may be necessary to reduce the input level control settings on the amplifier. When using the HCA-1000A in a THX installation, each level control must be set at maximum, which corresponds to 0 dB THS reference level."

    I thought the same thing HUH. The level controls are situated at either side of the right or left channel RCA jack.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
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    schwarcw wrote:
    Parasound makes really nice amps. I wish I had another A23 to biamp my 2.3's!!!

    HaloA23.jpg

    I want that NOW!!! Do ya hear man, NOW!!!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited March 2007
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    Ah, I see. All this time I thought they were output gain controls.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
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    F1nut wrote:
    Ah, I see. All this time I thought they were output gain controls.


    The funny thing here is I STILL DON'T GET WHY INPUT.
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  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,238
    edited March 2007
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    F1nut wrote:
    Joe, I know some (maybe all) Parasound amps have a gain control on the back panel, but it adjusts the output level, not the input.

    FWIW the 2200's don't have gain control.

    I have a 1000 stashed away I might have to breakout for the tweets after get the 2200's binding posts fixed. :(

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" HDTV | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE Pre | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
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    I-SIG wrote:
    FWIW the 2200's don't have gain control.

    I have a 1000 stashed away I might have to breakout for the tweets after get the 2200's binding posts fixed. :(

    Wes

    Wes, I bet that would be a marraige made in heaven. Of course if you don't want to use the 1000 I could be persuaded to quad amp.:D :p;)
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  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,238
    edited April 2007
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    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Wes, I bet that would be a marraige made in heaven. Of course if you don't want to use the 1000 I could be persuaded to quad amp.:D :p;)

    Joe,

    I got my SRS's fixed finally after my little overheating debacle. Anyway, before I comment on the sound I want to ask if your "current overload" LED's on the 1000 like to blink to the music? Mine sure do, but so far I have gotten the protection circuits to shutdown but I haven't really pressed the issue either.

    As for the sound, I must there is a major improvement in the texture and depth of the highs. I feel like the soundstage has been shifted upwards a tad. Songs with (what I thought) was a lot of reverb on the vocal track have really been tamed. Saxophones and xylophone/vibraphone really have a lot more to them as do cowbells believe it or not.

    Anyway, I think to take the bi-amping thing to the next level an A21 on the mids and an A23 on the to ought to be pretty sweet.

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" HDTV | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE Pre | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited April 2007
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    I-SIG wrote: »
    Joe,

    I got my SRS's fixed finally after my little overheating debacle. Anyway, before I comment on the sound I want to ask if your "current overload" LED's on the 1000 like to blink to the music? Mine sure do, but so far I have gotten the protection circuits to shutdown but I haven't really pressed the issue either.

    As for the sound, I must there is a major improvement in the texture and depth of the highs. I feel like the soundstage has been shifted upwards a tad. Songs with (what I thought) was a lot of reverb on the vocal track have really been tamed. Saxophones and xylophone/vibraphone really have a lot more to them as do cowbells believe it or not.

    Anyway, I think to take the bi-amping thing to the next level an A21 on the mids and an A23 on the to ought to be pretty sweet.

    Wes


    Wes, I've had no blinking or anything adverse occur with the Adcoms or the Parasound. I gotta tell I've been pushing and pushing too. Thursday night (before I caught this friggin cold and became deaf from the clogged up head, can't taste anything either) I was listening to Reference Recording's Dafos which has a tremendous amount of bass and percussion and I was pushing the 1.2s and the amps with the volume control set at 12:30. . . not one bit of strain or backing off of power and the sound was a clean and crystal clear as can be imagined.

    One of the biggest improvements I found with this bi-amp is the increased depth of soundstage image.
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  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,238
    edited April 2007
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    I called Parasound and talked to Tony about my 1000. He thinks a screw may be loose in the center of the caps. I'll report back this evening...

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" HDTV | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE Pre | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
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  • Deadof_knight
    Deadof_knight Posts: 980
    edited April 2007
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    Close your eyes and you can see it all , point to every instrument hahah Its great ...
    :cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "

    Denon 3300 Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center    ,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
    Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited April 2007
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    Deadof_knight wrote: »
    Close your eyes and you can see it all , point to every instrument hahah Its great ...

    I couldn't have phrased it better myself! I bring my wife into the room a lot and point out the soundstage and depths of the various instruments.
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  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,238
    edited April 2007
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    I-SIG wrote: »
    I called Parasound and talked to Tony about my 1000. He thinks a screw may be loose in the center of the caps. I'll report back this evening...

    Wes

    UNFREAKINBELIEVEABLE!!! Tony was right on the money. On my DLC, I couldn't turn it up past like -25 without the LED's blinking. I just cranked it to -3 with nary photon being emitted!

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" HDTV | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE Pre | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited April 2007
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    How's it sounding.
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  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,238
    edited April 2007
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    hearingimpared wrote: »
    How's it sounding.

    I started my own thread. :D

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" HDTV | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE Pre | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited April 2007
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    I-SIG wrote: »
    I started my own thread. :D

    Wes

    Heeeeeeeeeeyyyyy whatsa matta mine's not good enough for ya?:D

    Wes I can't find the new thread ya want to give me a hint please?
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  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,238
    edited April 2007
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    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Heeeeeeeeeeyyyyy whatsa matta mine's not good enough for ya?:D

    Wes I can't find the new thread ya want to give me a hint please?

    Here ya go:

    Wes's Bi-amped SRS's

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" HDTV | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE Pre | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2007
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    Bump for EB!
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