Does the cables really matter??? Or it´s just good marketing?
Comments
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I am glad your happy so am I. Two happy people, we can spread our joy across the land, it is our duty, afterall.
Enjoy the music along the way.
Be careful--Anti Hi-Fi audio insurgents lurk along the path.
RT1 -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »Be careful--Anti Hi-Fi audio insurgents lurk along the path.
So are the Un Funny. -
You know what? I was talking to Rich earlier this evening, at one point he changed phones. I could hear the difference immediately.
That was not ten years later. -
William,
I just can't believe that someone would not be able to hear the differences in say a Cobalt speaker cable and say a DH Labs speaker cable. I am no expert and there are clear differences and it is not wishful thinking or peer pressure. For some anonymous naysayer on the internet to say that we are just hearing things is insulting.
If I really heard no difference I would save some dough. I have also had very expensive cables in my system over the DH Labs and chose the DH Labs because I preferred their sound. Your logic says I should have liked the more expensive cables.Sharp Elite 70
Anthem D2V 3D
Parasound 5250
Parasound HCA 1000 A
Parasound HCA 1000
Oppo BDP 95
Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
Totem Mask Surrounds X4
Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
Sony PS3
Squeezebox Touch
Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door. -
I'm not the one who needs to prove anything, you are. I already know.
Your the one who claims you can pick the correct cable every time, not me. As I said above, you could easily prove your claim in your own home, without me driving days to get to your place. -
I just can't believe that someone would not be able to hear the differences in say a Cobalt speaker cable and say a DH Labs speaker cable. I am no expert and there are clear differences and it is not wishful thinking or peer pressure. For some anonymous naysayer on the internet to say that we are just hearing things is insulting.
You would think with such "clear differences" that it would be easy to pass a DBT/ABX test. Can you explain why no one has? Have you ever done a blind test to see if you could tell the difference then? -
WilliamM2
I was a strong believer in that cables didn't make a difference in sound quality. If you have read many of my post it would be very clear that I don't give a rat's **** about "fitting in". I come here to learn, and share. Its really funny how you can tell what people can hear, or not. It doesn't take a Golden Ear to hear the difference between many cables. IC's, and speaker wire are analog not digital. A good analysis is making an instrument out of different kinds of wood. Some people do buy cables, and speakers just to fit in(can you say Monster, and Bose?) I don't have the kind of money to "fit in" I could certainly use that money else where. You obviously have never tried doing a cable swap with real cables (I'm not talking monster vs RCA vs AR), or you really don't hear a difference, but to keep going on telling people what they hear, and insulting them makes you look like a Rude Jackass. You have posted your opinion, and I think the starter of this thread knows what you believe so... STFUPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
You obviously have never tried doing a cable swap with real cables (I'm not talking monster vs RCA vs AR), or you really don't hear a difference, but to keep going on telling people what they hear, and insulting them makes you look like a Rude Jackass. You have posted your opinion, and I think the starter of this thread knows what you believe so... STFU
I have compared different cable in my rig, and also participared in cable comparisons at the local audio store years ago. No one could tell a difference, except the salesman, and he was the one swapping the cables.:rolleyes:
You tell me to STFU, but claim I'm the rude jackass? And please show me where I have insulted anyone, I certainly haven't called anyone names, as you believers seem quick to do.
And I will post my opinion in any thread I feel like, as many times as I feel like, just as you do. -
I have compared different cable in my rig, and also participared in cable comparisons at the local audio store years ago. No one could tell a difference, except the salesman, and he was the one swapping the cables.:rolleyes:
You tell me to STFU, but claim I'm the rude jackass? And please show me where I have insulted anyone, I certainly haven't called anyone names, as you believers seem quick to do.
And I will post my opinion in any thread I feel like, as many times as I feel like, just as you do.
I said you were acting like a rude JA, and as for the STFU comment that is because you are in the teeny tiny minority of people who claim to know anything about Hi Fi that think cables can't improve sound, and yet you keep posting arguments about what other people can hear. What you are doing is misleading the original poster of this thread by posting, and posting about something you don't believe in. So you have made it clear on what you believe. Why do you keep arguing with what every other person who shares their opinion on what they can hear, and yes I think you are being insulting by saying "people just want to fit in". If they just wanted to fit in they would buy a set of overpriced cables, and say oh look what I have, and be done. Not go out and try different cables till they got the sound they were looking for. What does anyone have to gain by this person going out, and buying a good set of cables?Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
I have done a double blind ABX test in my home, on my gear, with music I was very familiar with. I have recounted on this forum on several occasions that I was able to discern a difference each time and EVEN tell when the person did not change the cable. Each time I posted I was told that it really wasn’t scientific and it was still voodoo and/or snake oil. This was the point in time where I decided that I really don't care if a person can/can't hear a difference or believes it or not. I am glad to give my opinion or experience to anyone who asks. What they do with the information matters not to me.
What I am tired of is responding to someone and then being told I am naive, ignorant, brainwashed, etc by someone who joins the forum and proceeds to attempt to save us fools from the error of our ways. I am well educated, a successful businessman, have great hearing and I have been participating in this hobby for a long time (40 ± years) and I know what I hear....and I can hear a difference.
For the rest of you...enjoy what you do or don't hear...cause I don't care."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
I said you were acting like a rude JA, and as for the STFU comment that is because you are in the teeny tiny minority of people who claim to know anything about Hi Fi that think cables can't improve sound, and yet you keep posting arguments about what other people can hear.
On this forum, dis-believers may be in a minority, but that is not the case everywhere, and certainly not the conclusion in properly performed tests.What you are doing is misleading the original poster of this thread by posting, and posting about something you don't believe in.
And I believe you are misleading the original poster. The difference is that you could cause him to waste good money on snake oil, where as my opinion will cost him nothing.So you have made it clear on what you believe.
And you keep replying to my posts. So I guess what you want is the final word, without any rebuttal, even though you have provided no evidence of your claim other than "I can hear it".
This is a discussion board, if you don't want to discuss it, don't reply to my posts. And quit trying to tell me what opinions I can post, or how often, it just shows how weak your argument is. -
On this forum, dis-believers may be in a minority, but that is not the case everywhere, and certainly not the conclusion in properly performed tests.
And I believe you are misleading the original poster. The difference is that you could cause him to waste good money on snake oil, where as my opinion will cost him nothing.
This is what I wrote to the originator of this thread is post #23.hearingimpared wrote: »I buy ICs or speaker wire. I place them in my rig. I listen and then switch back and I listen. Then I switch back and I listen. If I like what I hear, I keep the product, if I don't I send it back or sell it.
See how simple . . . case closed. Cables matter!
How can you possibly say I am misleading this person?
I asked you in post #55 to:You could do the same, it's been done before, and so far, null results.
Could you provide the data for the "it's been done before and so far, null results" statement?
You didnt!!! or couldn't is more like it!
I also offered a wager to take up F1Nut on his offer to compare wire in his rig. . . You found a bogus out!!!
So if I were the originator of this thread I would look at you as just a naysayer who wants to stir up the pot with non facts or non facts to support your position.
If the originator of this thread doesnt see that, then I will make it clear:
WilliamM2 is full of **** and hasn't provided one shread of evidence to support his stance . . . period!!!
Dear charliez,
From my vast experience with ICs, speaker wire and power cords I can tell you without hesisitation that I have heard differences in different cable products from different manufacturers. In some cases I didn't hear a difference and returned the product, in other instances I heard a difference and didn't like what I heard and returned the product, in other cases I heard a difference and it was an improvement of what I had in my rig at that time and kept the product.
This is what I suggest you try. -
That was not ten years later.
You're right. It was just like swapping cables in a rig, it only takes a few seconds.WilliamM2 wrote:Your the one who claims you can pick the correct cable every time, not me. As I said above, you could easily prove your claim in your own home, without me driving days to get to your place.
Quit trying to flip the burden of proof. You're the one who keeps saying cables don't matter, so it's up to you to prove they don't.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Could you provide the data for the "it's been done before and so far, null results" statement?
You didn’t!!! or couldn't is more like it!
Sorry Hearing, I must have missed that post, here are some links for you:
http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=10620
Now, can you give me one link showing a test with positive results? Where is your evidence?
No reason to respond with insults, just because you have nothing to back up your claims.I also offered a wager to take up F1Nut on his offer to compare wire in his rig. . . You found a bogus out!!!
I'm not traveling over 1000 miles to F1's place, and you knew that all along. And he refuses to prove it on his own. -
Quit trying to flip the burden of proof. You're the one who keeps saying cables don't matter, so it's up to you to prove they don't.
I am not claiming any special abilities, therefore have nothing to prove, or that can be proved. Your the one claiming the ability, so the burdon is on you. Apparently you don't understand scientific method. -
the question is what are the statistics of picking between a couple of same thickness cables; one a decent quality radio shack cable, another a hi-fi proof, highest end cable.
You bring up a good point. Wire gauge alone is no way to judge a cable as there is so much more involved. Stranded or solid, if stranded how many strands, are they twisted together or a combination of twisted and straight wire, if stranded is each strand individually wrapped or are they wound together, what is the insulation material around the wire, what is the insulation material on the outer jacket, etc. The variables go on and on.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I am not claiming any special abilities, therefore have nothing to prove, or that can be proved. Your the one claiming the ability, so the burdon is on you. Apparently you don't understand scientific method.
Really? Then that makes your original claim of, "Your performance will not change at all." is just another bogus statement on your behalf? Thought so.
Apparently, auditory memory isn't your only short coming.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
seems to make a difference to my ears - however that may just be my imagination - and the fact that i have a mid-fi setup. A higher-fidelity setup one would think would lead to more noticeable steps up (or down) in quality.
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I think the answer is "maybe". Depending on how resolute your system is, and wether or not you can detect the subtleties that cable upgrades bring. It's not so much that cable "a" is better than cable "b," it's more of a change of tonal character between two cables. Some cables present a fuller sound, some leaner; some push treble forward, some are laid back--probably moreso attributable to topology/execution than materials--but that's just my opinion. The main thing is to get a well terminated, well made cable, using wire that is designed for the task.
Bottom line though is as F1Nut said...try it for yourself.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
Sorry Hearing, I must have missed that post, here are some links for you:
http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=10620
Now, can you give me one link showing a test with positive results? Where is your evidence?
I asked YOU to provide proof, not someone else's opinion which is all you've been spouting here, someone else's opinion!!!. I'm working off of my own experience!!! I've provided my results a couple of times. You show links, I speak about my EXPERIENCE, something you can't do because you have such a closed mind due to someone else's data.I'm not traveling over 1000 miles to F1's place, and you knew that all along. And he refuses to prove it on his own.
I have no idea where you live so another of your misleading or closed minded rhetoric if you'd like has been debunked. -
Really? Then that makes your original claim of, "Your performance will not change at all." is just another bogus statement on your behalf? Thought so.
Except that science backs up my claim, nothing backs up yours. -
Let me see, a poster asked for opinion, he/she gets them, so a couple guys disagree about how some of the personal opinion has been developed because it does not meet their personal criteria for an opinion, they seem to want others to tell them through some sort of test what their opinion should be......data get me the data,
WTF???????????????
Who the heck sits down to listen to music for a couple hours and then starts and stops things for some test, its just not my bag, listening to one thing and another for some test........not me that is for sure, never have can't say I ever will.
But what do I know, except that when I have tried different type of cables and connects things sound to different to me.............anyway everything sounds great today.
RT1 -
I asked YOU to provide proof, not someone else's opinion which is all you've been spouting here, someone else's opinion!!!.
Go back and read the links, they are not opinions, but properly conducted tests. I'm still waiting for ANY proof you have, other than "I can hear it". That is just opinion, do you know the difference? -
You show links, I speak about my EXPERIENCE, something you can't do because you have such a closed mind due to someone else's data.
I do not have a closed mind, I used to believe cables made a difference, until I compared them myself at home, and sat in on a couple of comparisons at the local audio store.
You on the other hand are afraid to do any kind of proper comparison that may refute one of your beliefs. That is the definition of closed minded. Nice try though... -
STFU
have a nice day!
PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
Except that science backs up my claim, nothing backs up yours.
You really don't get it, do you!?!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You really don't get it, do you!?!
Nope... Doesn't get it. He may be related to John K.
I'm still on the fence regarding speaker cable price vs. quality, but I'm definately sold on IC design making a large difference. After instally my Signal Cable IC's from Polkfest, I was just listening to a particular Jewel song in HDCD format that used to have a resonance in her louder vocals that I simply didn't care for. I attributed it to the RTi70's, but with the new cables, the resonance is gone. Awesome.......HT
RTi70 mains
CSi30 center
RTi28 Rears
Velodyne CHT-12
H/K AVR-247
ADCOM GFA-7000
Samsung PN58B860
Playstation 3
2-Channel
Polk Audio LSi15's
Rotel RCD-1072
Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
ADCOM GFA-555
Signal Cable Analog II IC's
Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables -
Phil brought a used digital cable over about a month and a half ago, I forget what the brand was, maybe he'll chime in, but I was always a doubter about a digital cable having any real affect on the music. We connected it between my Oppo digital out to my Timbre DACs digital in and it was like a revelation. The music opened up, the details were more three dimentional, much more air between instruments, it sounded similar to what a good LP does to the music. I switched back to my Signal Cable digital (which is no slouch) and man what a difference. I didn't get to spend a whole lot of time with it but when I went over to Phils place after that, he had it in his system and, contrary to what someone says here, I have a good acoustic memory, it transformed PHil's system. He purchased the cable here: http://www.usedcable.com/ they have great deals on really good cables.
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Joe,
that's great.. and I believe you... i have tried out a few different digital coax cables. and my belief is that as long as you use a good one, you should do fine. i put the same amount of importance in digital cables as I do IC's ad speaker cables.. why have any weak links in your system?hearingimpared wrote: »Phil brought a used digital cable over about a month and a half ago, I forget what the brand was, maybe he'll chime in, but I was always a doubter about a digital cable having any real affect on the music. We connected it between my Oppo digital out to my Timbre DACs digital in and it was like a revelation. The music opened up, the details were more three dimentional, much more air between instruments, it sounded similar to what a good LP does to the music. I switched back to my Signal Cable digital (which is no slouch) and man what a difference. I didn't get to spend a whole lot of time with it but when I went over to Phils place after that, he had it in his system and, contrary to what someone says here, I have a good acoustic memory, it transformed PHil's system. He purchased the cable here: http://www.usedcable.com/ they have great deals on really good cables.PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
Go back and read the links, they are not opinions, but properly conducted tests. I'm still waiting for ANY proof you have, other than "I can hear it". That is just opinion, do you know the difference?
Not my opinion, my EXPERIENCE with listening to cables in my rig. I'll take my ears over some antiseptic oscilliscope, blind test, any day. My ears and my likes in music are what need to be satisified not my need to prove whether I hear it or not.
My rig sounds great. Ask anyone who's heard it. It was built with higher and high-end cables that I choose that sounded great in my rig, great synergy with my equipment not on what some double blind hocus pocus oscilliscope test told me should sound good.
By the way here is one for you William. A few years back, a fellow was spewing that in order for a rig to sound and reproduce music properly, it had to have a flat response coming through every component including the speakers. His theory made sense so I aquired the equipment needed to to get the rig I had at the time, which was no slouch by any means, and proceed to get all frequecies to come out ruler flat . . . all the instruments showed that the frequencies were as the test suggested.
Guess what, it sounded like pure ****. A boom box sounded better.
Screw the ZYX/ABC triple blind, stand on your head tests. . .my ears are what tell me what sounds good!!! Not yours, mine, not some engineer that has a grudge against cable manufacturers, my ears.
From this point further, you are on ignore list cause really all you want to do is incite, where we are trying to share our experience with this thread starter.
This discussion has been closed.