Does the cables really matter??? Or it´s just good marketing?
Comments
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If you did a blind ABX test, then you would discover the truth. Let your ears determine the difference of quality instead of your wallet or belief system.
Most of the people here KNOW the truth because they have heard the truth. The belief comes from experience."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
Something both sides of this argument apparently believe. I have listened to multiple cables and found they made a difference (sometimes better and sometimes worse). Provided MGPK followed his own advice, he apparently did not. (notice a difference that is)
I would be dubious of anyones opinion that starts with - I don't have to listen, I know......
Ultimately - its your system and your money. Go to a high end audio shop and verify that they have a return policy, pick up some nice cables (or ask if they have a demo set you can try out) and listen for yourself. Return your new cables or sell your old ones - doesn't matter one way or the other to me and my system - but that is the only way you will know if it matters to you.
Michael
What a cable is supposed to do is convey the signal from the source to the gain stage with the least amount of resistance for the purest sound (but I'm sure you knew that). When you listened to your multiple cables, did you conduct a proper blind ABX test or are you relying on your memory. If it is the latter, you really don't have a good basis to form a debate on this subject. Most recording studios use standard cables for their equipment when recording and mastering media, so how can an esoteric cable improve on the original signal? A cable is a pipeline for communication between components, if it doesn't translate the information properly it can impede or colour the signal, and, without knowing exactly how the original recording sounded live, any so called improvement is subjective at best. But, like you said before, ultimately-it's your system and your money.System:
H/K AVR430 Receiver
Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
Jamo E855 Tower speakers
Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects -
MG, are you a Vulcan?Sharp Elite 70
Anthem D2V 3D
Parasound 5250
Parasound HCA 1000 A
Parasound HCA 1000
Oppo BDP 95
Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
Totem Mask Surrounds X4
Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
Sony PS3
Squeezebox Touch
Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door. -
The best thing to do would be to give us a description of your gear and we will give you some wire brands to fit your system, we do need to know how long the wire runs are and the resistance of your speakers along with gear being connected.
I certainly hear differences in speaker wire, some more than others. The only way you will ever know is to try it and see. Remember you cannot hear any specifications or scope chart sweeps or what have you. Nobody listens to music A/B except a few tech nerds/geeks, they love data, not right or wrong its just what drives them, get very familiar with your rig and your music and whatever "good" wire you get, after sometime remove it and replace with the cheap wire and see if you hear difference. Possibly you have followed the advice to get some "demo" pair, (these usually cost some cash if you keep them, be warned) like em, keep em, if not return them with a thank you.
Appreciate the "all the same" guys for stopping in with someone else's opinion, I suppose to support their own, some folks are just not given the gift of hearing, hopefully, everyone though, is blessed in one way or another.
RT1 -
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45956&page=20
Here.... Start with post #596 for my own personal epiphany. (The search for "john K" to see why i said he can bite my ****)HT
RTi70 mains
CSi30 center
RTi28 Rears
Velodyne CHT-12
H/K AVR-247
ADCOM GFA-7000
Samsung PN58B860
Playstation 3
2-Channel
Polk Audio LSi15's
Rotel RCD-1072
Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
ADCOM GFA-555
Signal Cable Analog II IC's
Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables -
Dude stop posting and go try out some cables man. You can talk to your blue in the face but if you can or can't hear any difference is where the value will lie.What a cable is supposed to do is convey the signal from the source to the gain stage with the least amount of resistance for the purest sound (but I'm sure you knew that). When you listened to your multiple cables, did you conduct a proper blind ABX test or are you relying on your memory. If it is the latter, you really don't have a good basis to form a debate on this subject. Most recording studios use standard cables for their equipment when recording and mastering media, so how can an esoteric cable improve on the original signal? A cable is a pipeline for communication between components, if it doesn't translate the information properly it can impede or colour the signal, and, without knowing exactly how the original recording sounded live, any so called improvement is subjective at best. But, like you said before, ultimately-it's your system and your money.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
a_mattison wrote: »http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45956&page=20
Here.... Start with post #596 for my own personal epiphany. (The search for "john K" to see why i said he can bite my ****)
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I love when that happens. -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »The best thing to do would be to give us a description of your gear and we will give you some wire brands to fit your system, we do need to know how long the wire runs are and the resistance of your speakers along with gear being connected.
I certainly hear differences in speaker wire, some more than others. The only way you will ever know is to try it and see. Remember you cannot hear any specifications or scope chart sweeps or what have you. Nobody listens to music A/B except a few tech nerds/geeks, they love data, not right or wrong its just what drives them, get very familiar with your rig and your music and whatever "good" wire you get, after sometime remove it and replace with the cheap wire and see if you hear difference. Possibly you have followed the advice to get some "demo" pair, (these usually cost some cash if you keep them, be warned) like em, keep em, if not return them with a thank you.
Appreciate the "all the same" guys for stopping in with someone else's opinion, I suppose to support their own, some folks are just not given the gift of hearing, hopefully, everyone though, is blessed in one way or another.
RT1
Hey RT1 how about those two recordings of Amanda McBroom where one was a Sheffield Labs direct to disc and the other was mastered with Monster Cables throughout the recording equipment and process.
Refresh my memory, which one sounded better? -
Wooww. Excellent thread!
I´m discovering that cables it´s like religion or something like this
. Terms like "believers" or "belief", really I didn´t expect.
I think this level of discussion is very enriching since sometimes the truth is not just One.
I think I´ll try with any other cable but would try than cable cost less that my avr! I´m surprised with the high costs for some cables
Thanks for your thoughts!
Are you looking for Speaker and IC cables? I can do the speaker cables and IC's for you, and I am not going to take your wallet for a ride...PM me with what you need (lengths, terminations, etc) and we can work something out. For a pic of the speaker cables, check out the Karma I just did...
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53046 -
hearingimpared wrote: »Hey RT1 how about those two recordings of Amanda McBroom where one was a Sheffield Labs direct to disc and the other was mastered with Monster Cables throughout the recording equipment and process.
Refresh my memory, which one sounded better?
What records????????:D You really think I am going to answer that!!!!!!!!!!
Your right I am, it was the one with damm Monster Cable label, but, you know I can ALWAYS find a but you butt..........maybe the songs are just better............
Anybody who thinks cables do not matter should just go wireless speakers, I mean they don't matter so.....
RT1 -
Looks great Bill. PM sent.
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Anyway, my gear for music is AVR3805, RTi4. RM6800 for HT.
Thoughts are welcome. -
....did you conduct a proper blind ABX test or are you relying on your memory. If it is the latter, you really don't have a good basis to form a debate on this subject.
Auditory memory is far better than you seem to believe. How else can you explain the following. An old friend calls you after the two of you haven't spoken in 10 years and yet you instantly recognize the voice. That happens all the time, solid proof that auditory memory is excellent. Auditory memory is ingrained in each of us as a basic survival skill from the second we are born. Some say even before we're born, but that's another discussion.
I've put this out before, but maybe it's time to do so again. My house, my gear, my cables and my choice of music. You bring whatever cables you want and I'll nail my cables 100% of the time. Throwing a bunch of people in an unfamilair room with unfamilair gear and unfamilair cables proves nothing except that everyone is unfamilair with what they are hearing.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I laughed at rich dummy's who bought expensive cables when I first joined this forum. Now I have $475, $200 speaker cables, and a tone of DIY stuff that I have copied from many manufacturers. My speaker cables are 4 solid wires a pair, not stranded, and one set uses batteries. They made a huge difference in SQ. My detail, sound stage, and bass slam have all improved. It really depends on a lot of different factors including Equipment, environment, and taste. Everyones ears are different. Now after saying that the right synergy most people that hear the proper setup will agree on the choice of cables.Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Auditory memory is far better than you seem to believe. How else can you explain the following. An old friend calls you after the two of you haven't spoken in 10 years and yet you instantly recognize the voice.
Of course you can, every human voice is unique. But can you tell if he is using the same telephone? Or if he has changed the phone wire in his house? -
I laughed at rich dummy's who bought expensive cables when I first joined this forum. Now I have $475, $200 speaker cables, and a tone of DIY stuff that I have copied from many manufacturers.
Isn't it amazing what a little peer pressure, and a desire to fit in will do? Now you can say you hear just as well as the "golden ears". You know, that group that claims huge differences in cables, but can never pass a double blind, or ABX comparison test. Lucky you. -
Bill Ayotte wrote: »Are you looking for Speaker and IC cables? I can do the speaker cables and IC's for you, and I am not going to take your wallet for a ride...PM me with what you need (lengths, terminations, etc) and we can work something out. For a pic of the speaker cables, check out the Karma I just did...
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53046
Hey they're mine. . . Okay just give me a 15% advertising fee and we'll call it even!!!:D -
Isn't it amazing what a little peer pressure, and a desire to fit in will do? Now you can say you hear just as well as the "golden ears". You know, that group that claims huge differences in cables, but can never pass a double blind, or ABX comparison test. Lucky you.
Well if you are so sure about it that you are going to insult one of the decent members then why don't you take F1Nut up on his offer? I'll put my rig against yours, if he can't pick his cables out you can have my rig. If he can you throw your rig in the garbage and never post in a "cables & wires" thread here ever again! DEAL??? Or do you think I am trying to "just fit in?"I've put this out before, but maybe it's time to do so again. My house, my gear, my cables and my choice of music. You bring whatever cables you want and I'll nail my cables 100% of the time. Throwing a bunch of people in an unfamilair room with unfamilair gear and unfamilair cables proves nothing except that everyone is unfamilair with what they are hearing. -
Anyway, my gear for music is AVR3805, RTi4. RM6800 for HT.
Thoughts are welcome.
Well, if Bill is sending you some speaker cables then you are off too the races, there was once a talked about ratio for cabling to gear, I never really bought into it though, that being an exact ratio, but it certainly does not make sense to buy a very expensive cable for gear that cannot benefit from it. It just takes a little common sense, which you know you have because you are afterall at Club Polk.
Now your Denon is a nice receiver, the Rti 4 bangingly good bookshelves, of course we all live within budgets and some folks are just more frugal about spending money, so, do not spend more than you are comfortable with. We have talked alot about speaker wire but I think you are getting some, if not the Signal Cable company would be very nice for your gear, they also make nice interconnects which do also matter, some feel they matter more than the speaker wire, some feel not, see we can debate about that, but they matter, if you call Frank at Signal he will give you a little discount if you mention Club Polk and your membership here. Additionally, he is also an excellent experienced audio resource person and will talk to you about what your plans may be, what types of wire and in terms that are understandable. The BlueJeans cable company mentioned is another place.
For your HT well, as you run the wire certainly not less than 18 guage, depending on the lengths, I personally like at least 14, many use 12 guage, I use 8 guage on one of my musical rigs with fancy connects you screw on and off, the way the wire connects with the equipment is a major consideration, not that bare wire cannot be for you, it can work very well as a matter of fact, my fancy wires sounds great in that rig I mentioned. Make sure all the connections are good and tight. The oxygen free 99.9 wire is good, it actually removes a ferrite that is what really does the damage to the wire if it is trapped inside the insulating sheath.
Have fun and most of all if you experiment your ears will tell you when to stop. Someday, who knows, you may be telling your friends........Hey look at my wires..........then they start calling you geek and stuff like that, I love it.
RT1 -
Well if you are so sure about it that you are going to insult one of the decent members then why don't you take F1Nut up on his offer?
I insulted him? As far as taking F1 up on his offer, if I recall, he is using MIT cables, with network boxes attached. Those little boxes have electronics in them which will change the sound. It's not the wire.If he can you throw your rig in the garbage and never post in a "cables & wires" thread here ever again! DEAL???
I'll tell you what, don't try and tell me what threads I can post in, and I will do the same for you. Deal? -
I insulted him? As far as taking F1 up on his offer, if I recall, he is using MIT cables, with network boxes attached. Those little boxes have electronics in them which will change the sound. It's not the wire.
I'll tell you what, don't try and tell me what threads I can post in, and I will do the same for you. Deal?
I wasn't telling you anything, I was trying to make a bet with you! It seems you have found an out. -
I insulted him?
I think telling an adult he is caving to peer presure and just trying to fit in is insulting especially a guy who designs and makes ICs, speaker wire and speakers. -
I wasn't telling you anything, I was trying to make a bet with you! It seems you have found an out.
Sorry, I don't bet, about anything. Besides, I'm sure F! knows that no one is going to travel great distances to see him pick out his cables. It's an easy offer to make.
If he really wants to prove it to anyone, he can arrange a double blind/ABX comparison in his own home, with an impartial witness or two. You could do the same, it's been done before, and so far, null results. -
You could do the same, it's been done before, and so far, null results.
Could you provide the data for the "it's been done before and so far, null results" statement? -
I think telling an adult he is caving to peer presure and just trying to fit in is insulting
It was not meant that way, we all have fallen prey to those factors at one time or another, and are usually totally unaware of it. -
It was not meant that way, we all have fallen prey to those factors at one time or another, and are usually totally unaware of it.
I'll go along with that but not in Ben's case. -
My start was some simple PBJ's that I found on Ebay. It made a good difference compared to aftermarket high end "Wal Cheese" cables. Then a fellow Polkie came over with some Audio Quest, and I just about crapped my pants at the benefits, and it continued on from there.Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Of course you can, every human voice is unique. But can you tell if he is using the same telephone? Or if he has changed the phone wire in his house?
Just as every cable is unique, just as each rig is unique, just as the same exact gear will sound different in a different room. Thank you for validating my point.
You know what? I was talking to Rich earlier this evening, at one point he changed phones. I could hear the difference immediately.
Who ever changes the phone wire in their house??? :rolleyes:Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Sorry, I don't bet, about anything. Besides, I'm sure F1 knows that no one is going to travel great distances to see him pick out his cables. It's an easy offer to make.
If he really wants to prove it to anyone, he can arrange a double blind/ABX comparison in his own home, with an impartial witness or two. You could do the same, it's been done before, and so far, null results.
I'm within an hour or less of two major cities, within two hours or less of many more and less than 4 from the largest city in America. I've driven greater distances just to hear gear, so what's the big deal?
I'm not the one who needs to prove anything, you are. I already know.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
All this talk about proof is a very confusing to me. proving there is a sonic different is one thing, proving there is a major improvement is an all together different thing. proving there is a difference which justifies times 100 the expense is practically impossible (but of course that is an individual thing).
Some cables changes sound coloration, So I guess you will hear a difference, but it is an improvement over a flatter cable? Identifying some minuet difference does not mean, that the difference is necessarily for the better.
picking cables is easy enough if you try to distinguish between 10 g and 24 g 50 ft cables (Like demonstrated in plenty of retailer's display). the question is what are the statistics of picking between a couple of same thickness cables; one a decent quality radio shack cable, another a hi-fi proof, highest end cable.
I don't know how I might do in such a test, because I never took one.
I'm using Monster interconnects (they were on sale), and some "Generic" (think an elephant's skin though) speaker wire (branded lexus or something). I quite happy with the performance.
This discussion has been closed.