Are there any current speakers made that use SDA (or sim.) technology?
I am curious if there are any speakers being made now that use the type of tech used in the polk SDA.
So many people like SDA, the sound is something that audiophiles and non-audiophiles both seem to love.
If they are so good, why are there not any SDA type speakers currently being made? or if there are, what are the names? Why did Polk abandon this technology, and for that matter, why does Polk's modern lineup seem to have completely abandoned their former style and philosophy?
I would love to own a pair of SDAs but my system's needs can't support a set, and having to restore a vintage pair might be more trouble than it is worth for me... but if there were current speakers that use the technology, speakers made for a modern setup, with shielded drivers (this is a must), that are out there, I would sure love to know about them.
So many people like SDA, the sound is something that audiophiles and non-audiophiles both seem to love.
If they are so good, why are there not any SDA type speakers currently being made? or if there are, what are the names? Why did Polk abandon this technology, and for that matter, why does Polk's modern lineup seem to have completely abandoned their former style and philosophy?
I would love to own a pair of SDAs but my system's needs can't support a set, and having to restore a vintage pair might be more trouble than it is worth for me... but if there were current speakers that use the technology, speakers made for a modern setup, with shielded drivers (this is a must), that are out there, I would sure love to know about them.
Post edited by Yashu on
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You mean, like, the SurroundBar
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Polkmaniac wrote: »You mean, like, the SurroundBar
He probably means standalone speakers like the original SDAs. I have a pair, bought in 1989, in my living room amd they still work great. I bet that technology would make great HT speakers by being able to project a wider sound stage than the LSi series. -
I think BOSE has that technology now or some sort of it. And they are making a killing off of it.Monitor 7b's front
Monitor 4's surround
Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
M10's back surround
Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
Harman/Kardon AVR-635
Oppo 981hd
Denon upconvert DVD player
Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
Mit RPTV WS-55513
Tosh HD-XA1
B&K AV5000
Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek: -
back in the 80's Carver made a component called the Sonic Holography generator that electronically did a similar thing that the SDA's do acoustically.It could be used with any speaker but required precise positioning of the speakers and listener.Testing
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back in the 80's Carver made a component called the Sonic Holography generator that electronically did a similar thing that the SDA's do acoustically.It could be used with any speaker but required precise positioning of the speakers and listener.
I have a Carver CM 1099 with sonic holography. The explanation on why it is needed and how it works is identical to the SDA explanation (well mostly), but they did it with internal electronics and a traditional speaker. No interconnect cable. I had it hooked to my CRS+ and tried with and without the SH.
My burning question is this. Seriously. The SDA technology is based on the fact that sound from traditional speaker drivers reaches the right and left ears and thus the stereo separation is minimized. Right? But SDA and SH send a cancellation signal to direct the right speaker to the right ear and left to left. Right? But this is not how we hear live music, is it? Doesn't it reach both sides of our head? So, is SDA and SH an effort to achieve true stereo or a sound effect? I honestly don't know, but I have puzzled over this and imagine it has been the subject of raging debates. As usual, I have probably made very faulty assumptions. -
It is purely an effect to widen the stereo image which it certainly did if set up correctly.Testing
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Speakers in phase, speakers out of phase. Like simulated surround.Monitor 7b's front
Monitor 4's surround
Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
M10's back surround
Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
Harman/Kardon AVR-635
Oppo 981hd
Denon upconvert DVD player
Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
Mit RPTV WS-55513
Tosh HD-XA1
B&K AV5000
Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek: -
NeilGabriel wrote: »I have a Carver CM 1099 with sonic holography. The explanation on why it is needed and how it works is identical to the SDA explanation (well mostly), but they did it with internal electronics and a traditional speaker. No interconnect cable. I had it hooked to my CRS+ and tried with and without the SH.
My burning question is this. Seriously. The SDA technology is based on the fact that sound from traditional speaker drivers reaches the right and left ears and thus the stereo separation is minimized. Right? But SDA and SH send a cancellation signal to direct the right speaker to the right ear and left to left. Right? But this is not how we hear live music, is it? Doesn't it reach both sides of our head? So, is SDA and SH an effort to achieve true stereo or a sound effect? I honestly don't know, but I have puzzled over this and imagine it has been the subject of raging debates. As usual, I have probably made very faulty assumptions.
Go to POLKSDA.com and read the 2 Stereo Review articles, especially the one for the SRS's they explain how it works. It's a rather complicated and technical subject abd you have simplified it too much."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
For those where SDAs are your speaker of choice, I am sure this is not an issue, but when I had the CRS+ hooked up, I posted before how they continued to play (sda drivers) even when the speaker button was punched out--ok, easy, turn off the source. Also, they continue to play if you want to switch to B speakers which I wanted to do. Mine also continued to play when I used headphones. And of course, they even play with one speaker wire connected! None of this happens when the IC is disIC...but then why have them? I assume this is true for all SDA speakers. None of this is a big deal unless you want the option of switching to a set of B speakers.
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Go to POLKSDA.com and read the 2 Stereo Review articles, especially the one for the SRS's they explain how it works. It's a rather complicated and technical subject abd you have simplified it too much.
H9. I absolutely agree and no one should even think I understand the technology. I don't. I also am not at all critical of it...more curious than anything and anything too technical is beyond my ADHD afflicted brain.
I'm still trying to figure out how a stylus dragged over a groove in vinyl creates an electronic signal that can be played back as music! -
A question for the SDA Guru's.
Does or will a D'Appolito array work on the stereo side of an SDA speaker with the SDA speakers in their normal configuration? Or does this create some time alignment issues and that is why the tweeters are in the center of the stereo and SDA mid woofers?
And while I am at it. When utilizing PR's, do they cancel out some sound when the PR moves in when the mid woofer is moving out and vice versa?
Also how does the fluid coupling not get all muffed up when the stereo mid woofer is moving significantly different than the SDA mid woofer?
ScottI like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D -
NeilGabriel wrote: »For those where SDAs are your speaker of choice, I am sure this is not an issue, but when I had the CRS+ hooked up, I posted before how they continued to play (sda drivers) even when the speaker button was punched out--ok, easy, turn off the source. Also, they continue to play if you want to switch to B speakers which I wanted to do. Mine also continued to play when I used headphones. And of course, they even play with one speaker wire connected! None of this happens when the IC is disIC...but then why have them? I assume this is true for all SDA speakers. None of this is a big deal unless you want the option of switching to a set of B speakers.
That is not normal. I'd have to say something was wrong with your speakers or your gear.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
NeilGabriel wrote: »My burning question is this. Seriously. The SDA technology is based on the fact that sound from traditional speaker drivers reaches the right and left ears and thus the stereo separation is minimized. Right? But SDA and SH send a cancellation signal to direct the right speaker to the right ear and left to left. Right? But this is not how we hear live music, is it? Doesn't it reach both sides of our head? So, is SDA and SH an effort to achieve true stereo or a sound effect? I honestly don't know, but I have puzzled over this and imagine it has been the subject of raging debates. As usual, I have probably made very faulty assumptions.
I'd suggest you read the SDA white papers as they explain it much better than I can, but let's say you've made faulty assumptions.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
That is not normal. I'd have to say something was wrong with your speakers or your gear.
Yeah, mine don't do that either(once the adcom drains the caps anyways.) -
Scott,
I can't answer your first question and no to the second one, which answers your third one.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Im not an SDA Guru, but the PR' s purpose is to extend the bass response of the mid bass drivers exactly like a port would on a bass reflex speaker.My guess is that it is probably?only used to augment the bass of the stereo mid bass drivers and not the SDA drivers.MillerLiteScott wrote: »A question for the SDA Guru's.
When utilizing PR's, do they cancel out some sound when the PR moves in when the mid woofer is moving out and vice versa?
Also how does the fluid coupling not get all muffed up when the stereo mid woofer is moving significantly different than the SDA mid woofer?
Scott
not sure what you mean by fluid coupling.?Testing
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Yes, the SDA drivers aren't in the same chamber as the others and the PR. I don't think. At least that is what I have seen from the various SDA cross sections.
The SDA drivers only use a narrow band, with the later SDA revisions having an even more narrow band for the SDA drivers. Polk found out that using a narrow band for the SDA drivers even can increase the effect, probably because of how the higher frequencies are way more directional, and of course the low frequencies are way more non-directional, so they don't really need the effect, leaving a more narrow midrange band for the effect to work it's "magic". (the compact SDA was possible only after Polk made these updates to the technology, I am pretty sure)
And no I wasn't talking about the sound bar, that is similar maybe, but I was hoping for something to use with 2 channel, and with the improvements in bookshelf speakers over the recent years, it would be awsome to have a modern compact SDA-type monitor, especially to use with nearfield, since that is eactly where wide soundstage becomes a problem. The vintage compact SDA is still too large, not meant for nearfield, and not shielded, so it wouldn't work well in nearfield situations anyhow.
Too bad speaker design is so complicated... hehe... these days it is so easy to order quality components and drivers online, and there is enough documented on polk's designs that I am sure a competant engineer could one-off build a set, bu thent I am a CAD/designer, so I only have to deal with engineers, not actually be one
I just never understood why the technology was abandoned in the first place, SDA was obviously a good product. Probably some marketroid decision. -
Ok guys, get your read on here as there's plenty of SDA info to be found.
The SDA drivers are not in a separate chamber and the compact SDA CRS was around long before the updates. As for sheilding, adding bucking magnets is easy and effective, so that's a none issue.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The Carver piece you are talking about is the C-9....ALMOST all Carver Pre-amps and receivers have it, minus the C-19......The C-9 is a stand alone hologram generator.
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That is not normal. I'd have to say something was wrong with your speakers or your gear.
A fairly confident forum member, Hoosier I think, claimed that the speaker on/off button just closed the positive line and that the speakers could run on the negative alone--which they also do if I disconnect only one speaker cable. I don't know, maybe if someone modded the mids, they wired some offball way. All I know is that when I removed the IC, they stopped. Engtaz will now get to figure this out. The speaker off button works just fine with my other speakers, so I doubt it is the equipment. Eng, if you read this, see what you find out. -
Thanks Bill thats the one.The only time I have ever heard SH was with one these simple black boxes hooked up in a system.Bill Ayotte wrote: »The Carver piece you are talking about is the C-9....ALMOST all Carver Pre-amps and receivers have it, minus the C-19......The C-9 is a stand alone hologram generator.Testing
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It's your amp I think?
Don't some amps run with a DC offset? Could that be the problem if everything wasn't sharing a common ground?Ok guys, get your read on here as there's plenty of SDA info to be found.
I did get my read on. But I have seen the compact SDA, and it has only one tweeter per speaker, and that would mean that the tweeter was not being used as part of the SDA effect... but I thought that on the larger SDAs with several tweeters per speaker, one or more were being used for the SDA effect along with the mid-driver(s), and that polk changed things around so that this was not the case later on, and it made the crossover much simpler and so on.
Also, if the SDA drivers were not isolated from the passive radiator, then how did polk keep... wait... I just answered my own question in my head, the SDA drivers were not exactly out of phase at the same TIME, as they were adjusted for time as well as phase... nevermind on that one
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The original CRS uses two tweeters.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
early SDA models used a tweeter (in addition to the midwoofer(s)) on the SDA portion, later models removed the tweeter and only used the midrange driver(s), even the later model big boys with several tweeters.
As said before, the internal of the cabinets do NOT have separate chambers for the SDA drivers.
Yashum the only "delay" is the from the SDA drivers physically being 7.5" +/- to the outside of the cabinetsDodd - Battery Preamp
Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
Outlaw ICBM - crossover
Beringher BFD - sub eq
Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..." -
It's your amp I think?
Don't some amps run with a DC offset? Could that be the problem if everything wasn't sharing a common ground?
I'm running a Carver CM 1099 int amp (without sonic holography on). I have no idea what a DC offset is..sorry. I wish I had checked this with another amp/receiver....I hate riddles. -
Then how come the SDA drivers being out of phase with the mains, do not adversely affect the passive radiator performance?
Is it because the PR's resonance freq. is such that the narrow band the SDA drivers use doesn't have an effect?
I guess, all this thinking about the SDA system makes me realize that it is certainly not without it's little flaws, and that many purists probably would shun them. I like the updated approach that did not involve a tweeter in the SDA set, it seems like they would be more forgiving. -
Dodd - Battery Preamp
Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
Outlaw ICBM - crossover
Beringher BFD - sub eq
Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..." -
Is it because the PR's resonance freq. is such that the narrow band the SDA drivers use doesn't have an effect?
that is the answer
BTW windows Media Player's SRS WOW is VERY similar to the CARVER systemDodd - Battery Preamp
Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
Outlaw ICBM - crossover
Beringher BFD - sub eq
Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..." -
If the SDA drivers are hi pass filtered(bass removed) then the PR would only be augmenting the bass output of the main mid bass drivers.Then how come the SDA drivers being out of phase with the mains, do not adversely affect the passive radiator performance?
Is it because the PR's resonance freq. is such that the narrow band the SDA drivers use doesn't have an effect?
Sorry I know I should be researching this but what is the stated bandwith of the SDA drivers?Testing
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I have seen my SDA driver moving out when the stereo driver was moving in or vise versa. I believe it was drums in Steely Dans Aja specifically. Yashu you may right that the SDA driver(s) only? operates above the PR's tuned frequency response.I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
