DVD-A and SACD Integration

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HBombToo
HBombToo Posts: 5,256
edited November 2002 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I have spent alot of time looking at the new Universal DVD players so I have the ability to play either format. The topic of integration was raised and should be considered prior to purchasing new equipment.

I have the framework in my current settup, I think..., to efficiently integrate multichannel into my Home theater. Currently I use the h/k 520 preamp and run an Outlaw 7 channel amp which could easily be adapted to an sacd player.

One big topic that I have been exploring is Bass Management. Should it be a consideration or not and how can an individual integrate multichannel into there settup if they don't have the proper multichannel receiver and power equipent to effectively enjoy this feature.

Regards
HBomb
***WAREMTAE***
Post edited by HBombToo on
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited October 2002
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    It depends on the type of speakers your driving if you really need to take advantage of bass management.If you got all small speakers, then you really need bass management.Don't sweat it 2 much,It still sounds awesome with small speakers and a sub.....
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited November 2002
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    I'd agree with Mantis. to have the ideal multichannel set up.. you would need 5 identical speakers.. preferable bookshelf or towers. plus a subwoofer. all 5 identical speakers would be toed in slightly towards the center.. where you would be. very few if any of us have 5 identical speakers for our music or home theaters.
    I got into dvd-a just about a year ago... to explore and find out what if any better sound I could get.

    There is a big debate in here whether multichannel is real and closer to real live muscians playing or just a digital sound imitation of it. I like multichannel audio.. but not everyone does.

    It sounds like you are or have made up your mind on going with multichannel. Cool. I'd be interested in hearing what speakers you are planning to run when you have this intergrated into your system.

    My set up.. which is far from big or ideal... serves both multichannel DVD-a and home theater. I don't have the dinero to add just a music only system... so this is a good compromise.
    My speakers are bi wired RT800i's for fronts, bi wired CS400i for center. PSW350 sub, and fx/300i's for the rear. I do not have any "added" bass management component in my set up. I hear Outlaw audio has a $200 - $250 bass management component that you can add to handle and direct the bass where you need it most. I toyed with the idea of getting one of those..but after about a year now.. i find that my own receiver does an adequate job of directing the bass where I need it. The one flaw i see in my set up is that the rear 300's are to small to handle much of any bass. Ideally they should be replaced with RT800i's. but i can't afford it at the moment. Or at least upgrade the 300i's to 500i's.
    Bass management should always be a consideration.. but first set up your system and see how the bass is coming through.. you'll probably find that multichannel lacks bass.. i did when i first set mine up too. That in turn lack of bass made me play closer attention to my subwoofer and where would be the optimal place for it in the room. I played with the sub, moving in into three different places in the room.. till i finally settled on the right rear corner next to the couch. big improvement in bass now. Plus it shakes the couch on some big action scenes. It helped the bass in multichannel audio too.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • palebluedot
    palebluedot Posts: 18
    edited November 2002
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    I've read a lot around the net about multichannel audio and have seen multiple posts regarding DVD-A/SACD and the bennefits of having full range speakers vs. a sub/sat setup. Granted I have only recently gotten fairly serious about providing a quality audio experience, but I have a few questions regarding this concept. Please remember, I am still a relative newbie to this.

    I guess it was my understanding that a Sub/Sat setup with 5.1ch audio would perform more than adequatley, if not equally, for all sources of multichannel audio because of the format's ability to cut off frequencies at a certain threshhold. To this newbie it would seem that all you would need for the 5 channels (minus sub) would be speakers capable of producing sounds up to the crossover's cuttoff point. If your speakers aren't going to be playing anything bellow, say, 80Hz, then wouldn't you get the identical sound coming out of a speaker that's capable of playing frequencies down to 30Hz?

    I understand most systems have options for large or small speakers, but isn't sound at those lower frequencies significantly more difficult to localize? Therefore is there a big difference in the acoustic presence of low frequencies when the 5 main speakers produce them vs a subwoofer?

    I've owned full-range speakers before and think my sub/sat setup is much more desireable in that the speakers are never asked to play frequencies they are not tuned to play. Or are they?

    And in terms of DVD-Audio, there are six discrete outputs for this format: FR/FL, SR/SL C and SUB. Aren't the channels (other than the sub) already cut off at frequencies above the cuttoff point the mixing author intended?

    I guess it seems to me, if your system is playing the full range of frequencies and those that are originating from the single sub are not localized anyway, what is the major improvement? And if the audio source is intending you to use full range speakers in the 5 channels, what is the point of a .1 channel?

    Anyway, I love the sound of these new formats. I guess my receiver has a decent enough bass management system since I don't notice any problems with lower frequencies playing DVD-Audio discs.

    Current Setup:
    Onkyo TX-DS494 Receiver
    Pioneer DV-656A DVD Player (DVD-A)
    Polk R30 FR/FL
    Polk R15 SR/SL
    Polk CSi30 C
    Definitive Technology PowerSub80

    A budget system, yes...but I'm not rich and when it comes to bang-for-buck, this system shines. :)
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited November 2002
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    Palebluedot,
    welcome to the forum.........nice post by the way....I believe you just missed one important detail when using SACD or DVD AUDIO.The inputs on the preamp side(or receiver side)are pass through........not effected by the bass management.So meaning full 20 to 20 will pass....your speaker will need to be up to the challenge.Small mirco speaker suffer with these formats...
    Larger bookshelf speakers like the rt35i'sor rti38's of today,do quite well even though they are not full range.
    Bass mangement would need to be in the player........something most of the current player's lack.But like I said not a big deal if you got speakers that can play down into the 50 hz range or lower.......

    The way to get around this would be as following.......
    If you have sub sat speaker type setup, andthe sub allows for speaker in and out,you should run all channels in and out of the sub.....providing the sub can provide 5 channels in and out.Speaker level in and out.......+ running the LFE channel there as well......
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited November 2002
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    O sorry bass management is showing it's face.....player and receiver are now providing it.Denon,Poineer Elite,Sony to name a few.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • palebluedot
    palebluedot Posts: 18
    edited November 2002
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    Here is an interesting article regarding a bit about SACD/DVD-A Integration and primarily copy protection.

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/829352.asp?0dm=T22AT
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  • fireshoes
    fireshoes Posts: 3,167
    edited November 2002
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    Over on avsforum, they've been talking about a new Yamaha that's shipping mid-Nov to early Dec, that has dvd-audio and sacd. It's supposed to be around $999.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited November 2002
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    I believe my settup won't require bass management at least to get started. I run the 800i's for the front, 400i for center and RT55 for the surround L/R which all dig pretty deap. I may be wrong and all comment are welcome regarding and is appreciated.

    I looked at the Outlaw Bass Management Box and like what I see. If it functions as well as my Outlaw 770 Amp I will be very satisfied but for NOW I think I'll just step into this project by integrating, probably the 47a or ai, into my current system and play with it untill I perceive the need for additional hardware.

    I can't waite to have the ability for multi-channel but I'm waiting for price reductions due to the Christmas Season coming on.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • palebluedot
    palebluedot Posts: 18
    edited November 2002
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    Did some looking and I guess my Pioneer DV-656A DVD-Audio player does include bass management for DVD-A. Not a bad deal for a $200 DVD player.
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