Vinyl Cleaning
rlw
Posts: 231
Sorry, but I find this such a lively topic that I thought it deserved its own thread!
The tools:
VPI 16.5 w/ VPI brush
AudioQuest CarbonFiber Brush
ZeroStat anti-static device
Stylus cleaner: Record Research Labs, Lyra, etc.
Hunt EDA Brush for dry cleaning
The Chemicals:
Record Research Labs Cleaner, HomeBrew, RRL Stylus, Lyra Stylus.
The procedure.
Grade the record. You'll quickly be able to tell at a glance whether the record needs the full treatment, or a partial treatment.
The full treatment:
1. Using the supplied VPI brush, and the homebrew fluid, get the record good and wet by holding the VPI brush at an angle, and applying the solution. Then, rotate the brush so the bristles are vertical, and let it scrub.
If you have any stubborn spots - and they might be the entire surface - stop the VPI table, add more fluid, and manually scrub with the brush, making sure to always go with the grooves. Keep the LP wet.
Note: when cleaning a very dirty record on the VPI, place an innersleeve on the VPI prior to the record. Clean side 1 as above. When you flip to side 2, remove the innersleeve. This keeps the surface of the VPI clean, so that you're not placing a just cleaned side down on gunk.
Note: It's the stubborn-spot procedure that makes the VPI unit reside in a league apart from the Nitty Gritty - you have a surface to work on.
2. Dry. Using the VPI vacuum tube, let the record rotate until it is 100% dry. Don't worry about static buildup; you want to get that baby as free of residue as possible.
3. Using the AudioQuest brush, and the RRL Cleaner, clean the record on the VPI. This cleaner is very pure, the AQ brush gentle, and will get more residue off the surface that was left from step 1&2.
4. Dry as in step 2.
5. If there is static buildup, use the ZeroStat to remove.
6. Give a quick wipe to the TT platter with an optical cleaning cloth. Place LP on TT; clamp down, and clean using the Hunt EDA brush.
Note: do not use the Hunt brush as the supplied instructions indicate. Instead, allow ONLY it's own weight to hold it down while the LP spins. Then, holding it absolutely level, and applying 0 vertical force (neither up nor down) pull it straight off the LP - just like using a standard carbon fiber brush. You want to avoid applying any weight to avoid having the pad contact the surface of the LP.
7. Clean stylus - after every side.
The partial treatment:
Only steps 3-7
The "I've cleaned it already" treatment:
Only steps 5-7.
HomeBrew Recipe:
Distilled water, 80%
90% Pure Isopopropyl Alcohol, 20%. Do NOT use rubbing alcohol, as this has additives.
1-2 Drops only of Dawn per gallon as a surfacant - I often skip this.
Likewise, I don't use any other ingredients, as residue becomes an issue. Residue=surface noise.
The tools:
VPI 16.5 w/ VPI brush
AudioQuest CarbonFiber Brush
ZeroStat anti-static device
Stylus cleaner: Record Research Labs, Lyra, etc.
Hunt EDA Brush for dry cleaning
The Chemicals:
Record Research Labs Cleaner, HomeBrew, RRL Stylus, Lyra Stylus.
The procedure.
Grade the record. You'll quickly be able to tell at a glance whether the record needs the full treatment, or a partial treatment.
The full treatment:
1. Using the supplied VPI brush, and the homebrew fluid, get the record good and wet by holding the VPI brush at an angle, and applying the solution. Then, rotate the brush so the bristles are vertical, and let it scrub.
If you have any stubborn spots - and they might be the entire surface - stop the VPI table, add more fluid, and manually scrub with the brush, making sure to always go with the grooves. Keep the LP wet.
Note: when cleaning a very dirty record on the VPI, place an innersleeve on the VPI prior to the record. Clean side 1 as above. When you flip to side 2, remove the innersleeve. This keeps the surface of the VPI clean, so that you're not placing a just cleaned side down on gunk.
Note: It's the stubborn-spot procedure that makes the VPI unit reside in a league apart from the Nitty Gritty - you have a surface to work on.
2. Dry. Using the VPI vacuum tube, let the record rotate until it is 100% dry. Don't worry about static buildup; you want to get that baby as free of residue as possible.
3. Using the AudioQuest brush, and the RRL Cleaner, clean the record on the VPI. This cleaner is very pure, the AQ brush gentle, and will get more residue off the surface that was left from step 1&2.
4. Dry as in step 2.
5. If there is static buildup, use the ZeroStat to remove.
6. Give a quick wipe to the TT platter with an optical cleaning cloth. Place LP on TT; clamp down, and clean using the Hunt EDA brush.
Note: do not use the Hunt brush as the supplied instructions indicate. Instead, allow ONLY it's own weight to hold it down while the LP spins. Then, holding it absolutely level, and applying 0 vertical force (neither up nor down) pull it straight off the LP - just like using a standard carbon fiber brush. You want to avoid applying any weight to avoid having the pad contact the surface of the LP.
7. Clean stylus - after every side.
The partial treatment:
Only steps 3-7
The "I've cleaned it already" treatment:
Only steps 5-7.
HomeBrew Recipe:
Distilled water, 80%
90% Pure Isopopropyl Alcohol, 20%. Do NOT use rubbing alcohol, as this has additives.
1-2 Drops only of Dawn per gallon as a surfacant - I often skip this.
Likewise, I don't use any other ingredients, as residue becomes an issue. Residue=surface noise.
Post edited by rlw on
Comments
plus for cleaning for maybe 40 minutes of snap, crackle & pop. No thanks....gave it up years ago, but to each their own.
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
This is an expensive sport to say the least. I'm in though.
Question, I have some new lp's coming as well as several older ones as well. Will playing the newer ones without cleaning cause any undue harm? This additional $600 will not happen for another month. Is there a compromise here for the mean time before the proper equipment is here? Everything else is due in on Mon or Tues.
The snapple and pop may not be an issue from what I have read given the proper equipment and cleaning. I too had the same concerns. I gave up lp's 15 years ago with a smile on my face and decided at that time I no longer wanted anything to do with them. This is a last chance effort to correct my previous problems. The S&M is interesting though. Maybe you have a procedure on that? 2hrs, I don't think so.
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
Soap and water is good, especially if you are going to be around females. You might want to reconsider:D
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
Just some good clean fun.....:cool:
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
I never said playing LP's was convenient; just that - given proper care and a good playback system - they sound better than CD.
Sort of like masturbating v. sex with a stunning woman. Yeah, I can spank the monkey in about 1/1000 of the time and for the price of a Puffs, compared to the time and effort it will take me to bed that drop-dead gorgeous lady with the perfect personality.
I'm willing to bet I'll be way more satisfied with the sex I have with the lady.
Not that there's anything wrong with monkey-spanking or listening to CD's. There's a time and a place for everything. I own a decent CD player, and about 1000 CD's. Last night, I didn't spin vinyl: just didn't feel like it.
But I'm already putting together a playlist of favorite vinyl for tonight - and some of the stuff has never been released on CD. I like having that choice.
New records typically require only the Hunt EDA brush; 15 seconds, and you'll be enjoying that new LP. Some of them do require power cleaning - but you'll figure that out. I've played new LP's that are as quiet as CD; I've played new LP's that have a lot of noise - just plain crappy pressings. Fortunately, those are few and far between, even in the non-audiophile category.
As long as you clean the stylus after every side, I don't think you'll do any major harm.
On a side note, one nice thing about buying from The Bop Shop (listed on a prior post) is that they clean every LP with a Nitty Gritty before listing it. It might not be the best job, but you can certainly play those without a lot of cleaning.
Edit: Almost forgot your "compromise" question. Yes, for $30 you can pick up the AllSop Orbital Cleaner - works great for what it is. If you're dying to play some dirty vinyl, give it a whack with this, and you'll get a good bunch of the gunk off.
Perhaps you didn't need to "retire" after all, but to adjust your attitude and bathe?
I'm sure this won't compare to rlw's system, but my phono doesn't compare to his either.
I am now finally set with all the equipment unless I've totally missed something!
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
If the rig is real good at hiding the clicks and pops, you might as well dispense with all the other stuff and go right with Brillo or SOS pads.
I still have a turntable in my He-Man rig. I use it to play the 3 or 4 albums I have that haven't made it onto cd yet, and to record for friends.
A. Roma
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
And for how many years have you been cleaning LP's? What analog rig(s) in your years of experience have you owned?
I used to have a full Technics system with a nice turntable my father bought me.The receiver was all wood outside and weighed a ton.I then picked up a pair of Panasonic Thrusters as they where the hot speakers back then....since cd's came into my life in 1987, I haven't looked back at LP's or tapes since.A tracks went with them as well.
But cleaning them I never gave it a thought then.Today with cd type things,I feel dish washing liquid deluted alot works great rinse real well and clean cd is left.
I'm not sure If I'm causing any damage,I haven't noticed any problems or sound loss, but after a good cleaning(only when the kids finger them up) they work flawlessly.
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
I've seen stylus weight guages and protractors. Do I need either of those to set up the sme ver IV arm? Also, to set the VTA do I need anything special? The Goldring 1042 says VTA adjustment is more critical than many other cartridges.
I just got the Goldring today! The first part I've actually received!!!
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
Once you have heard your new setup, you will not be able to listen to the pioneer. and I don't think you will be listening to unacceptable lp's. I kept my Marantz for a while, but even with a decent cartridge, I couldn't listen to it any longer and all it did was take up room.
You will already be way ahead of me with your initial set up, so I cannot see any reason not to put it up on ebay and use the money for new vinyl.
Maybe when I get the kids raised, I will begin upgrading. I have learned a lot through your recent experience. It's nice to have a guy like rlw around. I'm stll learning through this thread.
Paul
Excellent news on the cart!
I can't imagine you needing a stylus weight gauge for the SME, provided it's in good shape. If you want to double-check it, for giggles, I can loan you mine.
Protractors: you will need the original protractors as supplied with the SME arm. It uses a different approach from other arms for setup.
This is for the V, but will give you a good idea of the IV
When you get your arm, walk through the setup. If you're unsure about any parts, or feel like you're definitely missing some parts, give Jim Alexander at Sumiko (the US importer of SME) a ring [or, as they say in the UK, "a bell"] at 510-843-4500, and he'll walk through it with you and make sure to get you any parts you need. WARNING: you may experience sticker shock at the price of a nut for the SME.
VTA adjustment with the SME-IV will be piece of cake - unless you're hands are really shaky! This is one of the easiest arms to setup. Feel free to drop me an e-mail, and I'll shoot you my number, and we can walk through any setup issues you come across. Speaking of which: I mentioned Werner in relation to Michell tables earlier. Check out
Werner's Personal Site
for a great look at Gyro setup.
You're coming into the home stretch!
I don't know about the Pioneer. Nostalgia? Until you get a VPI, a platform for cleaning with the AllSop?
Let's keep talking about vinyl and get Micah and Justin to start a new forum for us!
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
And that Dolby Digital 5.1 is a major step down from CD's?
I'm not talking about things like dynamic range: obviously, that's all there, and more, with DVD.
But I find that there's something "edgy" and "thin" about the sound that makes me not want to listen, and can be unpleasant.
I also have found that a ProLogic mix on LaserDisc can sound better than the latest 5.1, in the same way. Case in point is "Apocalypse Now." I have the LD, and the 5.1 DVD. I can hear how the DVD makes better use of the surround channels; how there are more dynamics; how the bass seems to wrap itself around you.
I still prefer the PL mix on LD. There's something that is more natural, relaxed, and real sounding.
It's not my gear being stressed by the dynamics: I have plenty of power, and speakers with plenty of dynamics. The system itself is not straining - and in fact, before I got my TT, I never noticed this phenomenon, and loved the 5.1 stuff to death.
Analog rules.
Before I bought the Polk SDA's and the two Carver amps I was running a Pioneer Surround system. It was ok. That is the best I can say for it. From the mid 70's up until around 88 I ran a 100 wpc Pioneer reciever with a pair of Marantz Imperials and for the time, it was an awesome rig (revered throughout the land) At the time I had a Marantz TT and as I recall the sound was very warm, but could shake the house on demand. Wish I had it today for comparison. Surely I would be underwhelmed.
One thing I have noticed, is that I prefer to listen to Led Zeppelin on CD rather than LP. Do you think it could have something to do with the CD's being remastered versions? I keep telling myself I am going to set aside an entire day and listen to the entire works of Page and Co. on both vinyl and digital to try and figure out the difference.
I have no experience with DVD, however a friend owns a Krell/Thiel rig that I have spent some time with and I must tell you that listening to DVD on his rig is a great experience. But it is also worth mentioning that he is blown away by the Polk/Carver analog experience especially considering the price difference of our two rigs.
Spent the morning listening to the Stones and now that I am stirred up again, think I will go upstairs and listen to some early Fleetwood Mac on vinyl. Bare Trees. Yeah, thats the ticket.
Later, Paul
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
I don't have the capability of comparing the 2 but if there is a good 2 channel lp system... I would like to start a shootout with my Cal Labs DVD/CD player. We can split shipping.
HBomb
That said, I live 3 miles south of I-70 in western Colorado, and if you are ever passing through, I can be available for an analog demo, cold beer, and your music of choice.
Paul
I agree that redbook cd's are not all they could be, but neither are redbook lp's. That's why I buy audiophile cd's and sacd's. They are warm, detailed and natural. Another factor to consider is the gear that is used for playback. With the right gear you can make redbook cd's sound awesome, just as with the right gear you can make vinyl sound awesome. The statement that cd's are a step down from vinyl is ignorant.
BTW, analog doesn't rule and how is Cleveland these days?
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Pray tell, what are "redbook lps"?
I have a decent CDP - the Balanced Audio Technology D5-SE- and I still say CD's are a step down from LP. What would you suggest as a the "right gear" to make CD's sound better?
Speaking of ignorance, what high-end vinyl rig do you have access to for comparison?
I have the BAT VK-D5 SE - maybe you consider that "low quality", but you would be the first person to say that, considering it's a $6,000.00 CDP.