Vinyl Cleaning

rlw

Originally posted by Paul Connor
One thing I have noticed, is that I prefer to listen to Led Zeppelin on CD rather than LP. Do you think it could have something to do with the CD's being remastered versions? I keep telling myself I am going to set aside an entire day and listen to the entire works of Page and Co. on both vinyl and digital to try and figure out the difference.

Later, Paul

Have you tried the Classics re-issue on 180G vinyl? IMO, only a deaf person would say that the remastered CD sounds better.

I'd agree that the original masters of LZ suck.

F1nut

Originally posted by rlw



Pray tell, what are "redbook lps"?

I have a decent CDP - the Balanced Audio Technology D5-SE- and I still say CD's are a step down from LP. What would you suggest as a the "right gear" to make CD's sound better?

Speaking of ignorance, what high-end vinyl rig do you have access to for comparison?

Redbook lp's......standard issue, non-audiophile.

The right gear.....a good sacd or cd player that upsamples, a good dac, good seperates, good speakers and good wires.

I no longer own a vinyl rig. I have demoed high-end vinyl set ups at the local high-end audio shops and while they did sound good, I prefer cd's.

You missed my point, both formats CAN sound very good with the right source material and gear. You seem to be biased and defensive on this subject. It is a subjective hobby and neither cd's nor vinyl are perfect, but vinyl is not the end-all in sound reproduction.

rlw

Originally posted by F1nut


Redbook lp's......standard issue, non-audiophile.

The right gear.....a good sacd or cd player that upsamples, a good dac, good seperates, good speakers and good wires.

I no longer own a vinyl rig. I have demoed high-end vinyl set ups at the local high-end audio shops and while they did sound good, I prefer cd's.

You missed my point, both formats CAN sound very good with the right source material and gear. You seem to be biased and defensive on this subject. It is a subjective hobby and neither cd's nor vinyl are perfect, but vinyl is not the end-all in sound reproduction.

Why do you feel compelled to hop into a discussion between two other members about their actual experiences of LP's, and start defending CD? And then dogging their findings?

FYI: Redbook CD = the technical specification for a CD.

There are no such things as redbook LP's, SACDs, and DVD's, or 8-Tracks.

As far as CD's sounding as good as LP's, as I said in another post:


A buddy who's favorite CD is Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" grew up digital. He came over one night, and we compared a regular CD of WYWH with a limited edition Super Bit Mapped version I have; clearly, the SBM version whomped the regular CD.

Then I put on a standard LP of WYWH - not audiophile, I don't even know what generation the pressing was, I picked it up for $4.00 someplace. The LP so definitively trounced the SBM CD it wasn't funny...and not just to my ears.




Believe me, when I shopped CD players, I bought the best sounding player that I could find - and I still think the BAT is that player that can make CD's sound as good as they can sound. I was, and still am, extremely happy with the sound of the BAT.

However, there's something about analog that is just more musical.

Ironic that I sound defensive to you: you're the one who hopped into the thread defending digital, and claimed that my position was "ignorant", while displaying your complete ignorance of the subject matter at hand by throwing around terms like "redbook lp", and in fact, not having a high-end analog rig in your system for comparison.

I don't like having my position labelled "ignorant" by somebody who (a) doesn't use standard terminology, and instead invents their own terms ; and (b) admittedly has little basis in reality for making their claims. Sorry, but that ruffles my feathers, and I will go into attack mode.

Honestly, I don't see why you can't accept the fact that a couple of us want to talk about the merits of vinyl. If we both find CD's to be a step down from LP's, why should you care? After all, those are just our subjective opinions. Why hop in and defend CD's when even Sony and Phillips say that CD's are no longer "perfect sound forever", but need to be replaced by the latest, greatest digital format?

madmax

In the end, it seems that Paul and rlw believe LP's offer something that CD's do not. It may depend on what they are listening for. I used to listen for power. Anything under 500 watts per channel seemed lacking to me. I don't listen loud but these behemoths have a particular sound to them. After that I got into tubes and noticed much more detail that seemed to turn to mush with the transistorized stuff and I ended up leaving the behemoths in the dust. I don't know what LP's may have to offer but once I put together my turntable system I'll let you know my results.

BTW,
Just in case you may be thinking I will be pro-LP because of the investment, I wont. It can all be re-sold for the same price I paid. I had a lot more cash invested in the SS stuff and that didn't stop me from taking them out of service. (although 10,000 SS watts will make a hell of a nice HT setup!)

madmax

Paul Connor

The many reasons I prefer vinyl to cd's I have talked about in these threads the last few days, and I certainly cannot take exception to the tastes of others. My stereo works great with the cd format and I love it. However, I prefer to listen to 331/3 LP's.
In fact, I think I will go spin a few right now.

Have a nice day.

Paul

P.S. At my house vinyl still rules.

madmax

I would go for a spin right now if I could! Anticipation sucks.
madmax

Paul Connor

Max

What is your target goal for first spin on the new equipment?

George Grand

Paul,

While you and I are not familiar, I appreciate your choice of sign-off lines.

Sadly, Warren Zevon has recently been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. His comments regarding his diagnosis?

"It's a **** if I don't make it to the next James Bond movie."


A trouper, right to the finish the way I see it.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

Paul Connor

Hi George,

I heard that Warren was dying. Very, very sad. I love his music. He is one of those guys who has been slugging it out for years and still going in spite of the bad years of adiction. I saw him after he cleaned up in about 1988 (I think). He played at the Fort Lewis College gym in Durango, Colorado to about 200 of us and it was truly a great show. I remember then thinking how grizzled and old he looked. I'll Sleep When I'm Dead has always been one of my favorite songs. I feel some vicarious ownership with the lyrics and have called it my theme song. It seems sort of ironic now that he is leaving us. Naturally, his comments upon learning of his diagnosis does not surprise me considering his macabre sense of humor and the world around him.

When he passes, I intend to buy a bottle of Bombay Gin, break out my collection of his cd's and albums and spend a day in fond memory of the music and the man.

Paul

Paul Connor

Here it is....


So much to do, there's plenty on the farm
I'll sleep when I'm dead
Saturday night I like to raise a little harm
I'll sleep when I'm dead

I'm drinking heartbreak motor oil and Bombay gin
I'll sleep when I'm dead
Straight from the bottle, twisted again
I'll sleep when I'm dead


Well, I take this medicine as prescribed
I'll sleep when I'm dead
It don't matter if I get a little tired
I'll sleep when I'm dead


I've got a .38 special up on the shelf
I'll sleep when I'm dead
If I start acting stupid
I'll shoot myself
I'll sleep when I'm dead


So much to do, there's plenty on the farm
I'll sleep when I'm dead
Saturday night I like to raise a little harm
I'll sleep when I'm dead

madmax

My first spin will probably be with Tom Petty, Southern Accents. After that I gotta hear Kiss Unplugged. I have that on DVD as well and musically it is great. After that I want to hear Jimmy McGriff on the B3 and some Janet Jackson. I wish I could find some Shaun Mullens on LP but no luck.
madmax

Paul Connor

Neil Young's Harvest is a great one on LP. Can't wait to see how your new gear works out. The suspense is killing me.

Frank Z

With all due respect to my fellow audiophooles I must say that the best way to handle those vinyl gems is as follows:

1. Have a beer

2. Yell at the old lady cuz the kids are makin too much damn noise.

3. Hey where's my beer?

4. Dig out the Hank Williams records from the Grand Old Opry...and the Megadeath albums...your an audiophile ain't ya!

5. Get into the cleaning mode by having a beer.

6. Tell the kids to go get dad's rifle cleaning box....and a beer.

7. Apply a liberal amount of Kiwi shoe polish...Hell them things are black ain't they?

8. Beer works better for spit shinning don't ya think?

9. Buff the wax in a circular pattern, one side at a time.

10. Allow records to "Digest" the wax for a smooth polished sound, and while you're waiting...How about a cold one?

11. Level the trailer for proper tone arm tracking on the "Close-n-Play."

12. Warm up the vocal cords and get ready to sing along, don't forget to use your Beer Bottle Microphone.

madmax

Level the trailer! I forgot about that one!!!

rlw

Oil Change Instructions

1) Go to auto parts store and write a check for $50.00
for oil, filter, kitty litter, hand cleaner and a
scented tree.

2) Discover that the used oil container is full.
Instead of taking it back to O'Reilly to recycle, dump
in hole out back.

3) Open a beer and drink it.

4) Jack car up. Spend 30 minutes looking for jack
stands.

5) Find jack stands under kid's pedal car.

6) In frustration, open another beer and drink it.

7) Place drain pan under engine.

8) Look for 9/16 box end wrench.

9) Give up and use crescent wrench.

10) Unscrew drain plug.

11) Drop drain plug in pan of hot oil: get hot oil on
you in process.

12) Clean up mess.

13) Have another beer while watching oil drain.

14) Look for oil filter wrench.

15) Give up; poke oil filter with screwdriver and
twist off.

16) Beer.

17) Buddy shows up; finish case of beer with him.
Finish oil change tomorrow.

18) Next day, drag pan full of old oil out from
underneath car.

19) Throw kitty litter on oil spilled during step 18.

20) Beer. No, drank it all yesterday.

21) Walk to 7-11; buy beer.

22) Install new oil filter making sure to apply a thin
coat of oil to gasket surface.

23) Dump first quart of fresh oil into engine.

24) Remember drain plug from step 11.

25) Hurry to find drain plug in drain pan.

26) Discover that the used oil is buried in a hole in
the back yard, along with drain plug.

27) Drink beer.

28) Uncover hole and sift for drain plug.

29) Discover that first quart of fresh oil is now on
the floor.

30) Drink beer.

31) Slip with wrench tightening drain plug and bang
knuckles on frame.

32) Bang head on floorboards in reaction to step 31.

33) Begin cussing fit.

34) Throw wrench.

35) Cuss for additional 10 minutes because wrench hit
Miss December (1992)
in the left boob.

36) Beer.

37) Clean up hands and forehead and bandage as
required to stop blood flow.

38) Beer.

39) Beer.

40) Dump in five fresh quarts of oil.

41) Beer.

42) Lower car from jack stands.

43) Accidentally crush one of the jack stands.

44) Move car back to apply more kitty litter to fresh
oil spilled during step
23.

45) Beer.

46) Test drive car.

47) Get pulled over: arrested for driving under the
influence.

48) Car gets impounded.

49) Make bail.

50) Get car from impound yard.

Money spent Parts $50.00 DUI $2500.00 Impound fee
$75.00 Bail $1500.00 Beer $25.00 Total -- $4150.00 But
you know the job was done right!

Paul Connor

Hey......You guys been watchin me work on the car????

madmax

If you had to make a list of your top few LP's concerning playback quality what would they be? It doesn't matter whether you think the content is good or not.

madmax

rlw

Originally posted by madmax001
If you had to make a list of your top few LP's concerning playback quality what would they be? It doesn't matter whether you think the content is good or not.

madmax

But here's a start:

(1) Holly Cole, "Temptation".
(2) Led Zeppelin II: Classics 180G reissue
(3) Portishead: "PNYC"
(4) Leftfield: "Rhythm and Stealth".
(5) Any of the Classic 180G Reissues
(6) Any of the Classic 45RPM Reissues
(7) Tom Waits, "Mule Variations". All pressings excellent; Dutch pressing is outstanding.
(8) Pink Floyd, DSOTM, 1st Japanese Pressing. The 2nd pressing is still great, 1st is hard to find.
(9) Chemical Brothers, any title, they're all good.
(10) Dixie Chicks, their latest regular LP release
(11) Any of the Johnny Cash American I - IV
(12) Mott The Hoople, any of the Analogue Productions Releases.
(13) Art Pepper, Intensity, Analogue Productions.
(14) Any of the Analogue Production releases
(15) Any EmmyLou Harris produced by Brian Ahern

Let me know if you want some more.

madmax

By few I meant maybe the top five or so but this is great. I just want to get a few higher quality ones that I could feel confident about as far as being "higher quality than the norm".

Thanks! Any additional titles are appreciated!
madmax

F1nut

rlw,

"compelled to hop in?" It's a public forum and I don't need a personal invitation.

Redbook is considered a generic term for standard issue anything in this area, perhaps not in yours. Like how your area calls carbonated soft drinks, pop. Here it's soda and in the south, coke. I'm not inventing terms, perhaps you're too stuck on them.

"little basis in reality?" Really, and you say this because I use to own a vinyl rig and choose not to now. :rolleyes:

Why can't you accept the fact that I find the sound of audiophile grade cd's and sacd's better than vinyl and that I voiced my opinion as such? You will note that I didn't say that my prefered source material rules over all others. I know folks who like their reel to reel best, but to say one format rules is silly. That has been my point!

I'm glad Sony and Phillips decided to offer sacd's to us, they are great.

As madmax stated, perhaps we just look to hear different things from our music and I'm cool with that. Perhaps, now we can end this pissing match and enjoy our perspective rigs.

F1nut......out

madmax

The real joy of audio is the process of getting where your going, not ariving. I have little doubt that given enough coin, enough inteligence, enough time and similar interests we would all eventually end up in the same place with similar rigs. So, lets get traveling!
madmax

rlw

Originally posted by F1nut

Nah. Instead, I'm updating my BozoFilter.

F1nut

rlw,

Well, I offered a olive branch, but you have shown your true colors. Since you can't seem to handle a little opposition I've only got two words for you.......eff ya!

Paul Connor

Hey Madmax,

Here are a few of my favorites. I agree with rlw on the 180 reissues. The ones I own are fantastic.

Willie Nelson Red Headed Stranger
Mott the Hoople All the Young Dudes
Van Morrison Moondance
Neil Young Harvest
Bob Dylan Blood on the Tracks

These are a few that really sound good to me. I mentioned in an earlier post that I'm not sure of the older vinyl releases of Led Zeppelin, and rlw replied that perhaps the remastered versions are better. I think I will look into buying them in the future. If you like the Beatles, Rubber Soul is one I find pleasing and there are a couple more. I believe you can find the full remastered Beatles out there on vinyl. Don't remember the company that released it, but I have seen the full set on ebay. If I remember right the set was released in the early 80's. Are you familiar with this set rlw?

Paul

madmax

I'm making a list here for future reference. Thanks!
madmax

rlw

Nope, never followed them...but I seem to remember that there's a Mobile Fidelity Box Set from around that time? Didn't it come with a nice wooden box and an alignment disc?

Paul Connor

That sounds like it. And Mobile Fidelity does ring a bell..

Paul Connor

Madmax,

Here is a read with some top ten suggestions by Marc Phillips:

http://www.furious.com/perfect/vinyl20.html

ziplin

:cool: Don't forget the last (name of product) cleaner and record treatment. Jerrys used vinyl in Pittsburgh PA has a building divided into three football field sized rooms filled with about thirty thousand used vinyl albums at $4.50 ea or more. Rare treasures and many lost hours to be had there.
Thanks for all the fun reading and tips in this thread. if I find a web site for Jerrys I'll post it.

madmax

Jerry's in PA? Is it in downtown Pittsburgh or where? I can make a road trip there one day! Thsy could be fun. I can see coming back with boxes of LP's.
Thanks for the tip!
madmax