Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVI, Sunfire 225x5, entire LSi series.

PolkPioneer · May 2006

Dear Sirs,

I have the following set:
- Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVI
- Amplifier: Sunfire 225x5
- Front: LSi25
- Center: LSiC
- Subwoofer: PSW1000
- Surround: LSiFX

At first I did not have the Sunfire amplifier.

The Pioneer volume goes from -80dB to +12dB, at the maximum, depending
on the mode, sometimes it stops at +2dB.

I could only get audible sound from the system at around -10dB and
reasonable audible level at around -5dB and even then, it was not loud
enough to disturb two people's conversation.

Then I read in the Pioneer's manual that it handles 8 or 6 OHMs speakers
and the LSi are 4 OHMs.

I bought the Sunfire amplifier that outputs the 5 channels, 225WPC at
8 OHMs, 450WPC at 4 OHMs and 900WPC at 2 OHMs (limited time basis).

After hooking up the Sunfire, to my surprise, the system sound basically
the same.

Based on your experience, what do you think it is happening?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Best regards,
Marcos

masanz1 · May 2006

It's all junk is the problem, I'll be glad to take it off your hands though.:D

Welcome to the club, sound like some connection isn't right. Maybe a setting in the unit. Almost sounds like you're in mute

PolkPioneer · May 2006

Thank you masanz1.

For a second I thought you were serious about the "junk" statement.

You almost gave me a heart attack.

Last night, I almost read the entire Pioneer manual and there was one
item that for some reason was set on my receiver, "analog attenuator"
(this controls the analog signal strength from an input to the receiver
so that it does not get distorted).

I turned the system, set the "ATT" to off and the difference was noted.

Now I start having audible sound at around -30dB, instead of the -20dB.

It made a substantial improvement, but I was expecting a little more
and after speaking with a co-worker, he told me to play with the wires
to separate the low from the high frequencies and get the lows from
the PSW1000 and then to the LSi25.

I will try it tonight.

Thank you for your help,
Marcos

miguel rios · May 2006

Hi Marcos:

If I understand OK, you have your speakers connected to the receiver through the amplifier. Now, from where in the receiver are you taking the signals and feeding them to the amplifier?. An amplifier should take around 1 volt to deliver full power, so if you are feeding much less than 1 volt from the receiver, the amplifier will not be happy.

Miguel

PolkPioneer wrote:

Dear Sirs,

I have the following set:
- Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVI
- Amplifier: Sunfire 225x5
- Front: LSi25
- Center: LSiC
- Subwoofer: PSW1000
- Surround: LSiFX

At first I did not have the Sunfire amplifier.

The Pioneer volume goes from -80dB to +12dB, at the maximum, depending
on the mode, sometimes it stops at +2dB.

I could only get audible sound from the system at around -10dB and
reasonable audible level at around -5dB and even then, it was not loud
enough to disturb two people's conversation.

Then I read in the Pioneer's manual that it handles 8 or 6 OHMs speakers
and the LSi are 4 OHMs.

I bought the Sunfire amplifier that outputs the 5 channels, 225WPC at
8 OHMs, 450WPC at 4 OHMs and 900WPC at 2 OHMs (limited time basis).

After hooking up the Sunfire, to my surprise, the system sound basically
the same.

Based on your experience, what do you think it is happening?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Best regards,
Marcos

kingkip · May 2006

How do you have your speaks hooked up? Do you have the amp out to the sub and then to the speakers? If so I would use the LFE out to the sub and run the amp straight to the speaks.

Just a WAG but maybe something there.

dorokusai · May 2006

Try hitting the "Mute" button.

Welcome to the forum.

I would actually suggest you simplify everything first and work forward. Try the Pioneer AVR with only the LSi25 or even the FX as L&R main speakers. If you have settings on the AVR, write them down and reset the AVR to factory default. Do they sound different?

PolkPioneer · May 2006

Hello Miguel,

Thank you for your reply.

To answer your question, I am using my receiver as a pre-amp,
connecting it to the amplifier thru the "pre-out" output RCA connectors
in the receiver.

Miguel, as I mentioned above, the "analog attenuator" receiver setting
was on and after I turned it off, it made a substantial improvement in
the volume.

I guess after spending a considerable amount of money, I was expecting
not only undistorted, high fidelity, but also very loud sound -- I had the
first two, but not the last one.

After reading several articles in magazines and in the internet, I decided
to keep this system for the Home Theater and to buy another one to
listen to music only, in stereo.

The new system will consist of the same Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVI and
a pair of Klipsch RF-83 (100dB sensitivity at 8 ohms).

Thank you for your help,
Marcos

PolkPioneer · May 2006

Thank you for your reply Dorokusai,

I actually had the Polk speakers connected directly thru the
Pioneer receiver.

After not being happy at all with the loudness, I decided to
buy the Sunfire amplifier.

As I wrote to Miguel, I decided to keep this system for the
Home Theater and to buy another one for music only with
the same receiver and a pair of Klipsch RF-83 (100dB sensitivity
at 8 ohms) -- this time I would expect to hear it loud enough.

Thank you for your help,
Marcos

PolkPioneer · May 2006

Thank you for your reply Kingkip,

>How do you have your speaks hooked up?
>Do you have the amp out to the sub and then to the speakers?
>If so I would use the LFE out to the sub and run the amp straight
>to the speaks.

I have the "pre-out" RCA outputs from the receiver connected
to the amplifier and from the amplifier to the speakers.

I am using the "sub-out" RCA output to the subwoofer.

Therefore, I am not using the connection from the subwoofer
to the speakers.

Thank you for your reply Kingkip,
Marcos

scottnbnj · May 2006

welcome PolkPioneer, i don't know much about all this multi-channel voodoo, but,..

does this happen with all sources? could it be something like the volume or channel trim settings in your player?

i think everyone's right in looking for a setting or connection problems somewhere... unless something is broken. it's hard to believe that you don't have enough power, but you don't hear distortion, compression or something bad happen before running out of juice.

)

Skynut · May 2006

With that amp you should get plenty of power.
Mine is 200wpc @8 and I can not stay in the room past -10db for fear of bleeding ears.

Something is wrong and I suspect it is a setting.
I am not familiar with the Pioneer line but that is my thought also.

What kind of RCA's are you using?

tonyb · May 2006

Does your AVR have 2 sets of pre-outs? Mine did and that was the exact problem I had.Some AVR'S have a sep. set for SACD OR DVD-AUDIO,
check it out

PolkPioneer · June 2006

Thank you all,

I decided to send an e-mail to Pioneer customer's service
and they promptly replied to me saying that for my case it is
best to call the 800 number and speak with a technician.

I did it, explained the problem that I was having with
low volume and he told me to manually change the
equalization of each channel.

The equalization is based on Decibels and it ranges
from -10db to +10dB.

When I bought the Pioneer, I had the equalization
done by their MCACC system, where you place a
microphone in a location of the room where you
would listen most of the time.

When I went to change it manually -- the front speakers
were set at -2.5dB!!!!!!!! No wonder I had almost no
sound coming from them.

I gladly increased it 0.5dB at a time, to the maximum
of +10dB!!!!!!!!!

When I played the same music back again, it was like I was
in a night club, literally.

My ears started hurting and I had to turned it down.

Now I am very happy.

My ears are still echoing inside.......

That was the kind of sound I was expecting to hear!!!

Thank you all for your help -- I sincerely appreciated,
Marcos

Skynut · June 2006

Good to hear it.

masanz1 · June 2006

thanks for the followup

aaharvel · June 2006

PolkPioneer wrote:

I did it, explained the problem that I was having with
low volume and he told me to manually change the
equalization of each channel.

The equalization is based on Decibels and it ranges
from -10db to +10dB.

I gladly increased it 0.5dB at a time, to the maximum
of +10dB!!!!!!!!!

When I played the same music back again, it was like I was
in a night club, literally.

My ears started hurting and I had to turned it down.

Now I am very happy.

quick question- is it a good idea to have your receiver at +10db. on all speakers? Mine all sound fine set to 0db, but from a volume perspective, If I turn everything up to +10db, would it damage the receiver or speakers? (i have a separate amp, the receiver's just the processor)

cfrizz · June 2006

Hi PolkPioneer. Congrats on figuring out the problem. However I totally agree with what Aaharvel has said. You should get yourself a SPL meter from Radio Shack & manually set the levels using that to set to reference levels. Until then reset the mains to 0db and maybe bump up the center channel to +1 or +2db. (So that dialog comes in clearly)

Welcome to Club Polk.

speakergeek · June 2006

aaharvel wrote:

quick question- is it a good idea to have your receiver at +10db. on all speakers? Mine all sound fine set to 0db, but from a volume perspective, If I turn everything up to +10db, would it damage the receiver or speakers? (i have a separate amp, the receiver's just the processor)

If it's like the VSX-1015TX, which I have, it will subtract the speaker settings from the maximum volume. Mine will go to +12 on the dial with the speakers all set a 0 db. Anything above 0 gets subtracted from the master volume setting. So if I was at +2 speaker setting, the master volume would only go to + 10. So he would only be able to hit +2 on the master volume.

Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVI, Sunfire 225x5, entire LSi series.

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