Word of Caution

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,637
    edited May 2002
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    Flason,
    stop being so nice.If it was my money and he was taking his sweat old time mailing it back, I would find out where He lives and face him face to face.I wouldn't leave without my money.I can't stand jerk's I have no patience for them.I'ts a crime to cash your check if he wasn't going to send the amp.He shouldn't have put it up for sale if it wasn't for sale.Thats ****.
    You see this is exactly why I NEVER shop online or buy used gear.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • flason
    flason Posts: 278
    edited May 2002
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    Scott, My intention is and has been to get my money back, not to see you log off the board for good. I tried to get a hold of you directly since May 11th but you had never responded. I have read your posts for a while and the board will lose out if you go. How many other folks know of John Petrucci and Dream Theater, besides this board of course. Lets just call this a giant misunderstanding and please send a money order.

    Mantis, I'm not a really zen type of person, but I do believe that what goes around, comes around. I will kick a$$ and take names when I have to but in a civilized place like this forum, it's better to use the mind. Of course that sometimes leaves me unarmed. I still also believe in the good people of this board. Folks that I would be happy to shoot darts or pool and drink beer\Strongbow with. Maybe that makes me sound like a puss, but I have a lot more friends since I adopted that philosophy.
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited May 2002
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    I do try to be a zen sort of person ;) - but I won't lay down and be taken either.

    Scott my intentions were never to be slanderous and I didn't want to take this to the board or be negative about the whole situation or you. I just want some action.

    I would really prefer that you still send the PSW-250 instead of the money. However if you really can not ship it then the refund is fine.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited May 2002
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    it's better to use the mind. Of course that sometimes leaves me unarmed.

    flason,

    That is funny!:lol:

    wangotango68,

    Calm down! I'm thinking (something I don't do well) you should stick around. Would like to invite you in my kingdom!

    KING WANNABE
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • caseymou
    caseymou Posts: 327
    edited May 2002
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    Scott has read this thread and asked me not to give out his number any more. I should respect his wishes and remove myself.

    I am sorry about your business troubles and I hope things are straightened out quickly.
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited May 2002
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    Come on Scott..... you are a polk/carver/IU/F1 loyalist at heart.
    You really don't want to go - do ya?
    I'm sure you are busy/stressed with work (who isn't?)...
    but, you certainly have to understand when people don't hear hear from you and get nervous/angry/stupid.

    I'd venture to guess that you have more friends on this board than enemies. So, stick around a little while longer.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited May 2002
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    I think Scott is trustworthy for the most part. Not to say he doesn't change his mind after a sale or take too much time to send payments. He still owes me too after 2 months but I have never thought he is trying to rip anyone off. Time will tell. He does drive a truck and I'm sure that he often gets out of touch with day to day things. Since I have e-mailed him often I can tell you that his e-mail service sometimes sends a non-deliverable message one time but works the next.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • flason
    flason Posts: 278
    edited May 2002
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    I think waiting 2 months to get your money back is mad, max. I wouldn't give my local Circuit City $1000 to leave and come back in 2 months to pick up my equipment. It's just not the way business is done. When you send money to someone with the intent of buying their goods, if the goods do not arrive, your money needs to be refunded in a timely manner. This isn't one of those rebate deals we have here, it's a sale. I have missed out on another deal and now my son has missed out on a bike purchase because I didn't have that extra money and I couldn't count on it being returning to me. As I said, I am a dad raising 2 kids on my own and each dollar I earn is very important to me.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited May 2002
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    Flason,
    I understand your predicament and I agree with what you are saying. I am single but given the amount of cash I earn for the amount of time put in (a lot of time) I also have to watch the pennies. My response was worded as it was because previously I had a dealing with Scott where he sold me an amp for a measly sum. He then wanted to back out of it and I gave him the opportunity. I did ask, however, that he reconsider since I had gone through some effort to gather the cash and to get it to him. Given the e-mail I sent him he could have easily said "no" and that would have been the end of it. He reconsidered and sent me the $2000+ amp for the agreed upon $600. It was a bad deal for him but he kept his word. This thing was in awesome "like new" shape and I know he could have easily got twice the amount. Why he made the deal to start with I have no clue. I suspect he made the deal without giving it enough thought. The fact is he kept his word. Later he sold me a pair of speakers for a very good price. He should have sent me some money back because we re-negotiated before they were shipped. I assume (maybe I am a mark) that he got into problems somehow or whatever and I am willing to accept that. Sometimes people start something they can't finish. I know that is not right and I don't think I personally would let it happen in my dealings with others but you never know the circumstances. I'll give him the benifit of the doubt. As for anyone else it is up to them to decide if they are willing to let it ride. He seems like a nice enough person. In the end we all end up being the sum of all we do. Who knows what problems someone has. This is only my own reason and I would not expect anyone else not to do whatever they have to do. I am in no way suggesting you should not be mad as can be. I think if he does not re-imburse you or send you the stuff or whatever he agreed to do then he is the one who looses. Sorry to be so long and I am not suggesting that anyone else feel the same way. In general, if a person does not keep their word and they have the ability to do so then they will ultimately pay an exagerated price. Some people call it Karma. I've seen it over and over.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Billm57
    Billm57 Posts: 689
    edited May 2002
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    my two cents..bottom line..dont post things for sale if you dont or cant sell them..ship the product or return money fast..there is no excuse..if work and personal life are keeping ya busy then dont get in the selling game..anyone who has sent money to this guy and is waiting for a return of either product or money should be pissed....i sell and buy a lot on Ebay so I usually have the stuff already packed so that when I receive payment the product goes out within 24-48 hours...
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited May 2002
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    I bought a set of Monitor 10's series 2 off Scott.
    They didn't have the original Polk drivers - as jpg's showed.
    Initially, Scott advertised them as "first person to arrange local pickup gets em for free". I responded. Scott then changed his mind (for a short while) and decided to store them in an attic.
    We then agreed on a sales price of $100 for the speakers and $20 for the stands. I picked them up at his place. No problems.
    Scott helped me to load them and I handed him qty=6 $20's.
    I then sent clubpolk $200 and bought qty=4 new MW6503 drivers and now they are as good as new and sound absolutely fabulous.

    Hoosier21 sold my a set of CRS+'s w/original stands. When I received them, one had a bad tweeter (it crackled). Hoosier21 stood behind the sale and I got two new black SL2000 tweeters from Polk and returned the old clear SL2000's (one good, one bad) back to him. Great problem/resolution response from Hoosier21!

    Overall, I am very happy with both my used Polk speaker experiences (Monitor 10 and CRS+). I've got two wonderful classic polk speakers that function as new at a fraction of their initial sales price. <big grin>.
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  • flason
    flason Posts: 278
    edited June 2002
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    UPDATE: No check yet. I was hoping he would have sent it like he said 9 days ago.
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  • caseymou
    caseymou Posts: 327
    edited June 2002
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    I spoke with Scott last week and he said he sent out checks already. Whether you believe him or not it's up to you. My speakers I bought from him turned out not to be such a good deal. Left and rights don't match #'s and the left SDA driver has a little voice coil rub at higher volumes. Of course when I called Scott and asked about it he said he never listened to them loud and didn't know anything about it. Funny, when he was dropping them off he said "they rock" and "amazing, they sound like there is a sub hooked up". How could he have made those statements if the speaks were never turned up? Not worth a major case, but to me either he is honest and he doesn't have good ears, or something else. Either way, it is a $50 fix, so no big deal.
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  • flason
    flason Posts: 278
    edited June 2002
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    Casey, I don't or won't disbute your positive friendship with Scott. I am mearly stating the fact that it is now 51 days and I haven't seen a red cent of my money. Aaron is in the same boat with me, I'm just in to it deeper. I know the USPS is called snail mail, but it doesn't take 9 days for a letter to get from Indiana to Florida. Last time I wrote Scott, he was quite rude. If anyone should be angry, it would be me. But I keep it civil because life is to short to be pissed at people.
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  • caseymou
    caseymou Posts: 327
    edited June 2002
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    flason,

    Actually my last post was in support of you. I am not sure whether Scott was completely honest with me and I can definitely see your side. There is no excuse at this point. What was said in my earlier posts might not be all that accurate when it comes to buying speaks and getting them in stated condition without problems. Not that my situation is all that serious, but sometimes it's the little things. In my mind you have shown considerable restraint with this situation.

    By the way, it may be a stupid question but Scott does have your correct information (address)?
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  • wangotango68
    wangotango68 Posts: 1,056
    edited June 2002
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    chuck
    those speakers i sold you are the same way i recieved them!
    they were never swamped out or anything. let me guess
    you cranked them up with a under powered reciever and now
    you don't like the sound. every statement i made was true!
    you even emailed me a day or two later to say they sounded great. so what is up with that. if you don't know how to properly
    set up a set of classic polk speakers then ask someone instead
    of complaing about there sound with a reciever.


    scott
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  • flason
    flason Posts: 278
    edited June 2002
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    Caseymou, I hope the info I sent was accurate. I had my address on the money order, on the envelope, and e-mailed to him. I guess I made sure I was redundant. And I do appreciate all the support I have received on this board. I never and don't intend for it to be a Scott bashing. My motivation is to get my money back. I hope Scott realizes that. It's not personal, it's business. Scott, if you could e-mail me my post with my address, I will double check it for accuracy. I am still giving this up to a giant misunderstanding and hope you will stat on the board.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2002
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    Scott, buddy,
    I have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about??? My CRS+ I bought from you have not even been hooked up yet. (I haven't had the time yet).
    What the hell are you talking about? I don't even own a receiver. I think you should read my last post again if there is any question. You still owe me $100 but I figured you overextended or something. Send it when you can. I really don't understand whatever it is you are talking about.
    madmax (Chuck)
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • wangotango68
    wangotango68 Posts: 1,056
    edited June 2002
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    not you the other chuck in indianapolis.


    scott
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited June 2002
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    Regarding the US Postal Service (aka Snail Mail)....

    I think the US Mail is getting an undeserved bum wrap here.
    I've been mailing checks to various bills for 17 some years now and this is what I've learned:

    1. Not ONCE has a single check been late in arriving to its intended recipient. I'd estimate that i've mailed out some qty=3000 checks in the US Mail and NEVER has a single one been late.
    2. If anybody deserves a bad Mail reputation.... its UPS.
    The way those loaders stack boxes in the back of semi trucks is a crime. Its a wonder even yet more stuff doesn't get banged up or broken.
    3. $0.34 to mail a letter across country in 3 days is an incredible deal to the consumer. Yes, California to Maine takes 3 days - maximum. US Mail flies on airplanes (often operated by Fed Ex, or any commercial airline that has the extra cargo capacity).
    Of course, the US Mail is subsidized by the governement. So, its really impossible to determine the actual cost of mailing a letter.
    Probably much higher.

    Now, I'm not questioning Scott's integrity. I'm just saying that something extra-ordinary is happening here. The odds of one check being this late is something like 1:3000. If its happened to two people, that would be statistically very significantly higher... more like 1:9,000,000.

    People, I'm not pointing fingers here. I'm just explaining some simple statistics. You are, of course, free to draw your own conclusions.
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  • caseymou
    caseymou Posts: 327
    edited June 2002
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    Not that it's important but I heard somewhere that the USPS is the only government office that pulls it's own weight. No additonal subsidy is provided by the govt. Whether that is true or not I don't know. Anyone else hear that?

    You are right, 3 days max and it is a helluva deal.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,985
    edited June 2002
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    Man this sucks ****!!!!!

    -R
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,124
    edited June 2002
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    hey now.....ease up on the govt. agencies....

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,985
    edited June 2002
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    'independent' govt agency there Troy....run like a business...

    Tax paying Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited June 2002
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    There are two independent government agencies that I know of:
    1. CIA (these people are not responsible to anyone).
    2. IRS (obviouis).
    Thats it.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,985
    edited June 2002
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    Get your read on, it's independent alright....

    USPS

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,124
    edited June 2002
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    yeah, yeah....I'm just saying, give us overworked underpaid govt. employees a break..

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited June 2002
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    cut/paste job (I'm not the author):

    You're misunderstanding what is being said. You are correct, the Postal
    Service is not
    'wholly independent' of the United States government. BUT, It is an
    independent
    corporation wholly owned by the United States government.

    Prior to the Postal Service Act of 1969, the Post Office Department was a
    full class
    executive branch government agency ( the Post Master General was a Cabinet
    officer ).
    This agency was spun off as a corporation by the PSA '69 as the United
    States Postal
    Service. It became a corporation with operational control placed in the
    hands of the
    USPS Board of Governors ( not the Congress, although Congress does have veto
    power over BoG candidates ).

    In most respects it can operate as a corporation: setting rates, negotiating
    contracts
    for labor and services, issuing bonds... oh yeah, and advertising.

    The USPS status is not unique, at least two other agencies -- FNMA and
    FHLMC --
    are set up in a similar manner. These entities are often refered to as
    "[Government] Agencies", but this does NOT mean they are executive branch
    agencies
    in the same manner as Social Security Administration, IRS etc.

    These agencies enjoy special status as corporations owned by Uncle Sam. For
    instance,
    the bonds issued by the USPS, FNMA, FHLMC et al. are NOT guaranteed by the
    US
    Government, there is no legal obligation on the part of the Congress to back
    them if they
    default on payments. However, it is generally assumed that if there was a
    need, the
    Congress would step in and pay the debt. Because of this, these "agencies"
    can borrow
    money at a lower rate ( a competitive advantage ). Now you can impress your
    friends at
    parties, you know what an 'Agency bond' is and why it is considered a
    separate sector
    from corporate debentures.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,985
    edited June 2002
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    Ctrl C - Ctrl V, nice. It relies on itself 'wholly' for income. That's independent in my book. The real question is this, is Scott going to use this govt agency, independent or not, to expedite refunds to the poor saps he has robbed.....

    Cheers,
    Russ

    Oh, and I don't think I'll be telling my friends about Agency Bonds, I do believe I would get my **** kicked for talking about **** like that.... ;)
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited June 2002
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    I suppose they are about as independent as Chrysler once was.
    The government bailed them out in a crisis once <and, for what... so, Mercedes could go buy em up>.

    I would guess (based upon timing) that those poor saps already have all the money that Scott ever intended (or promised) to send.

    The only Agency Bond I ever care to discuss is the 007 variety.
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