Rebirth of Club Polk
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I can't really speak much on decisions that were made from the brand. As many of you know, my role here for the forums specifically is to overview it, carry out decisions made by the brand, and act as a liaison to the brand. Out of respect for member privacy, administrative actions and account decisions are confidential between leadership and the individual user involved.
While I cannot discuss specific account details with third parties, these decisions regarding permanent suspensions are never made lightly or based on a single isolated event. They follow a comprehensive evaluation of long-term conduct patterns and adherence to community standards. This was something in discussion long before I entered this role but understandably since I am the front facing member that acts for the brand, I am the one who faces the brunt of frustration from some members. I can accept that. Unfortunately given that Polk Audio is a trademark, I do have to send this link to this alternative forum to legal.
For PMs within the forums, I am not at all in the habit of reading into user PMs. I only access my own in which I communicate with members personally. That is entirely a personal choice of mine since I believe in respecting that basic privacy and in any position I might find myself, I would never invade PMs between other users that do not have me knowingly added to the conversation. While I think it is best to act as if PMs on any site can be viewed by moderation or admins, I want to make it clear that I do not personally do that. I do not know what PMs were edited or "exposed." I would like to be shown where this might have come from so I can actually investigate what is going on and see if I can find information on our backend.
I have removed comments and threads based on community rules and reports, and due to certain requests I have received, I had to delete accounts from our site entirely, which have resulted in lost information from those specific accounts. In the situation where I can merely deactivate or ban an account while keeping their posts that may contain useful information for future visitors, I will do that, but when I receive a request to delete their entire profile, I have to oblige. This is common moderator/admin work for any site such as this and this should be of no surprise.
Beyond this, I can't speak much further, I still intend to be as transparent as possible but at the end of the day, I am a Polk Audio employee, I have to act in accordance to what the brand wants carried out.
Thanks for the detailed response, Ryan.
It’s sad however that the ones that contribute the most to the forum fall to the heavy hand of moderation, while the ones that contribute the least (and complain the most) emerge unscathed.
Ultimately, while the complainers won their victory, it’s the forum as a whole that will lose in the long run through a lack of meaningful content, technical expertise and customer service.“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
Actually, it's probably the death of Club Polk
H9
I don't know man, this forum has been around since forever. I think it started back in the 90's or very early 2000's I might be the oldest member here, meaning I have been around in here since the very beginning. The death of this forum would suck. All the changes , all the member who came and went, a lot of us are still around and whatever happened, I just wanted to know.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Dan, PMs aren't private anymore.
So then why are they PM's? That doesn't make sense. The very reason any of us us it is to have a private conversation off the forum to discuss whatever should be in a thread. It's out of respect most of the time or to complain about something etc and don't want to put it in the forum so the topic of whatever is going on can be discussed and the thread moves on.
If the moderators are not respecting PM's as just that, that can be an issue.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Private except privy to mods. Why would you expect total privacy anywhere in the modern electronic chain of communication. Nothing is truly private unless it is in person conversation, an end to end encrypted text, or an encrypted voice call.
I am sorry bro'. We have been friends for a LONG time here on CP.
In what F'n world would you accept your girlfriend listening in to a conversation you are having with your weekend fishing crew/beer buddies?
Yeah, she may be in your world, your boss. But if she ain't invited into your conversation? GTFO!!!
She wasn't invited, and she had no business being involved in your PRIVATE conversation.!
Ryan. You F'd up and we know this. PRIVATE conversations cannot be edited. Yet, somehow, it was, and undisclosed information was revealed elsewhere.
Delete the thread, ban members as you have been. At this point, what does it matter? You have officially been exposed, and don't try to play dumb.
FACT OF THE MATTER - Not one person on this forum can change the title (or a post, for that matter) of a PRIVATE message thread. Only a moderator can do that. YOU CHANGED THE TITLE OF A PRIVATE THREAD that went back a VERY long time.
Would you care to explain that, or simply delete this post, ban me and all of my posts as well?
There are only two decades of posts and information you are willing to delete to save your own.....I'll leave it at that.
Tom
Tom,
I'm not sure how much of this is directed at me, and how much is to Ryan. I get what you are saying, but it is naive to think that PMs on this forum wouldn't be accessible to the moderator. I have never thought they were truly private. If you can copy and paste something, always assume it is viewable by others with elevated privileges (aka Mods, law enforcement, etc). Digital privacy isn't something you can assume. You have to take steps and be cautious of anything you type on the internet.
So fill me in here. If 2 people lets say you and I decided to PM each other because we wanted to exchange phone numbers, or email addressed or home addressed, the whole point of a PM is exactly as it says. I wouldn't want to share that info with anyone else on the forum unless we all agreed OR a moderator as it's not their business when 2 people want to PM each other, why even have a PM is if it's not between those 2 people?
I feel like something went down recently and no one is actually talking about what happened. I just want to know what happened.
I have been in this forum since it was created, I have seen people get banned from the forum for reason mostly justified, almost always as some people get out of hand, talk down to new members, complain about questions being asked over and over etc. Stupid stuff if you ask me but whatever. This place is for us to share of passion for this hobby and some just take things way too far. Either way, it seems like some good memebrs are gone and I just wanted to know why.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I can't really speak much on decisions that were made from the brand. As many of you know, my role here for the forums specifically is to overview it, carry out decisions made by the brand, and act as a liaison to the brand. Out of respect for member privacy, administrative actions and account decisions are confidential between leadership and the individual user involved.
While I cannot discuss specific account details with third parties, these decisions regarding permanent suspensions are never made lightly or based on a single isolated event. They follow a comprehensive evaluation of long-term conduct patterns and adherence to community standards. This was something in discussion long before I entered this role but understandably since I am the front facing member that acts for the brand, I am the one who faces the brunt of frustration from some members. I can accept that. Unfortunately given that Polk Audio is a trademark, I do have to send this link to this alternative forum to legal.
For PMs within the forums, I am not at all in the habit of reading into user PMs. I only access my own in which I communicate with members personally. That is entirely a personal choice of mine since I believe in respecting that basic privacy and in any position I might find myself, I would never invade PMs between other users that do not have me knowingly added to the conversation. While I think it is best to act as if PMs on any site can be viewed by moderation or admins, I want to make it clear that I do not personally do that. I do not know what PMs were edited or "exposed." I would like to be shown where this might have come from so I can actually investigate what is going on and see if I can find information on our backend.
I have removed comments and threads based on community rules and reports, and due to certain requests I have received, I had to delete accounts from our site entirely, which have resulted in lost information from those specific accounts. In the situation where I can merely deactivate or ban an account while keeping their posts that may contain useful information for future visitors, I will do that, but when I receive a request to delete their entire profile, I have to oblige. This is common moderator/admin work for any site such as this and this should be of no surprise.
Beyond this, I can't speak much further, I still intend to be as transparent as possible but at the end of the day, I am a Polk Audio employee, I have to act in accordance to what the brand wants carried out.
Ok Ryan understood.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Actually, it's probably the death of Club Polk
H9
I don't know man, this forum has been around since forever. I think it started back in the 90's or very early 2000's I might be the oldest member here, meaning I have been around in here since the very beginning. The death of this forum would suck. All the changes , all the member who came and went, a lot of us are still around and whatever happened, I just wanted to know.
It's a shell of its former self. In the mid to late 2000's 2006-2014 or so this place was hopping all the time. The past 3-4 years it's really declined. The part I bolded in the quote, just isn't true. We've lost A LOT of long term contributing members.
It may not be the death, but it sure has fallen pretty far. The latest round of.........will only make it fall further, IMO.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
It's like that aircraft flight analogy to the economy. Now it's in a nosedive headed for a crash.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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I think the decline of membership is tied to a number of factors, Facebook, reddit, etc. This new generation doesn't frequent message boards that much.
Audio in general has a youth group problem, lack of new interest compared to yesteryear will mean the death of many many companies. The companies today only make the problem that much worse but continually raising prices and arguably decreasing quality in many ways.
I recall when I first really started getting into the hobby you could buy some truly awesome gear for 10k, like end game level stuff like the Wilson watt puppy or Mezzo utopia, to get that same hand made quality today you are looking at 30 to 60k and I would argue they don't sound any better than the stuff from 2003.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I think the decline of membership is tied to a number of factors, Facebook, reddit, etc. This new generation doesn't frequent message boards that much.
Audio in general has a youth group problem, lack of new interest compared to yesteryear will mean the death of many many companies. The companies today only make the problem that much worse but continually raising prices and arguably decreasing quality in many ways.
I recall when I first really started getting into the hobby you could buy some truly awesome gear for 10k, like end game level stuff like the Wilson watt puppy or Mezzo utopia, to get that same hand made quality today you are looking at 30 to 60k and I would argue they don't sound any better than the stuff from 2003.
Chuckled at this (bolded text). You were what, 14 when you joined? You were irritating as eff back then, now a guru. Kudos to you
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Actually, it's probably the death of Club Polk
H9
I don't know man, this forum has been around since forever. I think it started back in the 90's or very early 2000's I might be the oldest member here, meaning I have been around in here since the very beginning. The death of this forum would suck. All the changes , all the member who came and went, a lot of us are still around and whatever happened, I just wanted to know.
It's a shell of its former self. In the mid to late 2000's 2006-2014 or so this place was hopping all the time. The past 3-4 years it's really declined. The part I bolded in the quote, just isn't true. We've lost A LOT of long term contributing members.
It may not be the death, but it sure has fallen pretty far. The latest round of.........will only make it fall further, IMO.
H9
I don't know if you realize it or not but the participation in all internet forums has been in decline for years and it isn't because of people getting banned. The world is changing and the younger generation is more accustomed to and prefers other forms of social media than just forums. There's more to choose from nowadays.
I'm on a lot of other forums and not one is booming compared to what they used to be. Some are surviving. Some are running on fumes but the content or rule changes or the behavior of the moderators has absolutely nothing to do with their decline.
I still like them though. Just like I prefer printed magazines to digital and physical media like vinyl records and CDs to digital downloads too. But just like forums, printed magazines, CDs, and vinyl records have all delined from their peak years due to forces beyond anyone's control.
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yep, started at 11 and found this place around 12 or 13... fun times - this place was absolutely wild when I first joined. The flame wars and such were insane.
Appreciate the kind words
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Don't your pages get sticky??MuchoReverbo wrote: »I still like them though. Just like I prefer printed magazines to digital -
I think the decline of membership is tied to a number of factors, Facebook, reddit, etc. This new generation doesn't frequent message boards that much.
Audio in general has a youth group problem, lack of new interest compared to yesteryear will mean the death of many many companies. The companies today only make the problem that much worse but continually raising prices and arguably decreasing quality in many ways.
I think the 2ch audio IMO, is looking like it's getting a breath of fresh air. I've seen alot of content with vintage cassette tapes, more vinyl, etc, so I think the curiousity will catch on. Is that the ideal format...no, but it brings the younger crowd in, and having kids in the early college age, I can already see the shift even with them from their MP3's to higher quality sound...lets hope anyway.
Back on track and a little long-winded....this whole situation IMO does have some factual voids. I don't know what's going on behind closed doors here, people may not post all the time, but the threads are viewed and it would be naive to think we can't see what's going on...at least if you were able to catch the posts before they were removed.
I've been here for 23 years, and that was a good 10 years after I purchased my first Polk system, I don't hold a candle to what others have contributed here, not a chance. but as I now have a few sets of awesome speakers and components,, speaker mods, etc..which were made possible by the knowledge base here. People who worked at Polk, who were in on the designs of some speakers, knew the founders personally...you don't get this knowledge and experience in your immediate social group everyday.
So how about we disclose what transpired, sounds like matters were handled accordingly from moving a possible "disagreement" into a PM which is what we should do correct? I don't know, I'm actually asking. Is this not protocol, are we all missing something? This amazing group or 'family" of Polkies seem to get along just fine, in the forums and at gatherings. People here are all different and handle things differently, even from being FTF and expressing concerns and giving advice, usually not sugar coated....that's how the world works. What's new in the news...NASA appears to be possibly getting an SR-71 flying again, they reached out to retired engineers and crew, do you think they woudld kick them to the curb if they had a heated disagreement or just let things cool down and move forward?
I'm trying to grasp at the big picture here, we have sadly lost some members here recently who have passed and also in the not too distant past. I'm trying to think how this would be playing out if we had those members here to see what is happening. We have an incredible knowledge base here and looking back on the history of this forum, all the hard work put into keeping even just the SDA line alive and well is nothing short of astounding. All to be just tossed away in some form or fashion.
Are we removing members here based on something that happened 5+ years ago or more, using that as a cumulative approach to discipline? I would surely hope I'm not judged on a disagreement I had with someone in my youth by my friends. I can't think of anything that has transpired here that would not be said FTF and been perfectly fine a few min afterwards. I still can't understand how a PM is now in the spotlight here, or using PM's to discuss differences that keep the visible threads somewhat clean but now that's not "safe"
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Select Chinese gear is killing it at the entry to just above entry level stuff. I own a smattering of pieces less than $500 each that sound exceptionally good. The old idea that China builds crap has sort of gone by the wayside. They are using really good parts and building stuff as solid as brick s hit house.
Now there are still a lot of counterfeit pieces and poorly put together pieces, but there are some great companies out there. Ya just got to pay attention. Douk, FiiO, xDuoo, SingXer, iFi, Doge, etc are all excellent companies.
I think that's helping keep the younger generation somewhat satisfied and engaged.
Schiit gear is really solid stuff made in the USA. They tend to have a bit of a house sound no matter what "level" of gear you buy. I like it for what it is, what they have accomplished and built in the USA. The sound isn't quite my cup of tea. But, I have kept a couple of pieces to rotate in/out of the office rig. They have an OTL tube headphone amp I use as a pre, that is excellent.
The DIY community is also alive and well with some spectacularly simple, excellent parts count pieces that are simply killer sounding.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Apparently you can't say k r a u t on the forum!lol
2ch rig: Speakers: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods Preamplifier: Parasound P5 DAC: Fiio K13 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)
Standby: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands -
So no one on here knows where the best hot dogs on the planet come from in a town fairly near to Detroit across the Ohio border? Vienna Beef, Nathan's, none of them can hold a candle to them.
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Life GOES on with or without ..........................
^^^^
Søren Kierkegaard, a 19th-century Danish philosopher and existentialist -
I did several years ago join Club Covid just to check it out but quickly exited. Now I try to access the place and this is what I get.
YOU HAVE BEEN BANNED FROM THIS FORUM.
Oh well.Since we don’t know where we are going we have to stick together in case someone gets there….Ken Kesey.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper REALLY likes you.
And the boots you lick will stomp you too. -
motorhead43026 wrote: »I did several years ago join Club Covid just to check it out but quickly exited. Now I try to access the place and this is what I get.
YOU HAVE BEEN BANNED FROM THIS FORUM.
Oh well.
You're not missing much... -
MuchoReverbo wrote: »So no one on here knows where the best hot dogs on the planet come from in a town fairly near to Detroit across the Ohio border? Vienna Beef, Nathan's, none of them can hold a candle to them.
Tony Packo's -
Yes indeed! Is your screen name "tonyp063" related to Tony Packos by chance?
It is by-far my favorite of all-time.
I would kill for a MOAD right about now!
Heaven on earth. -
I really like and respect some of those guys, but they have a hard time keeping it civil. They treated this place like it was their own personal playground...
This is how I feel about it as well. The guys that were recently banned and/or quit had deep audio knowledge and will be missed for that reason. I've been a member here for going on 18 years. Virtually everything I know about audio I learned here. I don't know what went down recently. However, during my 18 years here I've witnessed a lot of intolerance and bullying from a self-appointed small group of members. I believe that this group has driven away many more members than they have attracted. Someone might say "oh so-and-so is just gruff. Grow a thicker skin". Nope. I know gruff and it doesn't bother me. Bullying is different. I lament the loss of some specific members that were also knowledgeable but were driven out of here, usually with the label of "troublemaker" given to them by the self-appointed. I think many others just gave up on the place due to the atmosphere fostered by these guys. I haven't and won't visit their new forum but from the descriptions given in this thread it sounds like it is right up their alley. If it's your bag as well then go over there and have fun.
SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|REL T/9X SE Sub -
I am requesting the forum show more funny pug pictures.
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Jetmaker737 wrote: »I really like and respect some of those guys, but they have a hard time keeping it civil. They treated this place like it was their own personal playground...
This is how I feel about it as well. The guys that were recently banned and/or quit had deep audio knowledge and will be missed for that reason. I've been a member here for going on 18 years. Virtually everything I know about audio I learned here. I don't know what went down recently. However, during my 18 years here I've witnessed a lot of intolerance and bullying from a self-appointed small group of members. I believe that this group has driven away many more members than they have attracted. Someone might say "oh so-and-so is just gruff. Grow a thicker skin". Nope. I know gruff and it doesn't bother me. Bullying is different. I lament the loss of some specific members that were also knowledgeable but were driven out of here, usually with the label of "troublemaker" given to them by the self-appointed. I think many others just gave up on the place due to the atmosphere fostered by these guys. I haven't and won't visit their new forum but from the descriptions given in this thread it sounds like it is right up their alley. If it's your bag as well then go over there and have fun.
100%. Not a word out of place.
I’ve lurked for about 20 years and we’ve all witnessed the targeted lynchings of anyone they disagreed with… often politically, but not always. It’s easy to know who they are: they all use(d) the LOL emoji as a passive-aggressive sign of admonishment.
Is there a single other officially branded forum where this kind of shenanigans goes on? -
Guys I think at the point we’ve answered @mantis question.
I find anyone whose going to talk bad about banned members (who cannot defend themselves) no better than those they are calling out.
I think we can all just move on and invite others to do the same.
I do find it interesting how many people that haven’t been active in many months or years are coming out of the woodwork to celebrate other members being banned.
I simply say that is bad form in my opinion."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Nobody is celebrating.
This is not a good day (or week) for the Polk forum, but the facts remain and at some point, the outcome was predictable.
It is somewhat surprising that Sound United, Massimo and now Harman International (Samsung) turned a blind eye for so long.
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EndersShadow wrote: »Guys I think at the point we’ve answered @mantis question.
I find anyone whose going to talk bad about banned members (who cannot defend themselves) no better than those they are calling out.
Is that like you mentioning me at the other forum? Claiming you'd get banned for interacting with me? Hypocrite, I've never got anyone banned, or even tried to get anyone banned.
I don't believe we have ever had issues in the past, or even a conversation.
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@EndersShadow So are you now taking up the mantle of "The Guy To Shut People Up"? Nobody is celebrating or talking bad about these guys personally. But I think there was a group of people who did not approve of the behavior but knew that speaking out would get you flamed. So expressing themselves here is perfectly fine, even though you dislike it.
Edit: Just in case you jump to this conclusion, no, I did not report anything to the mods.SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|REL T/9X SE Sub -
Isn’t this is a typical case of victim shaming? You were raped because your skirt was too short. We were tough on you but you deserved it… we probably did you a favor.
