I'm out on Valentines day and the surround time around it.
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This thread raises some important info people may not be aware of. Hoses and connectors in an engine aren't covered by the powertrain warranty but are covered by the bumper to bumper warranty. That's why it's a good idea to check an engine's hoses for signs of wear once a car's out of the full warranty period. In the case of the brands that are found to be least reliable, quite often the reason is cheap plastic parts or other low quality parts being used.
I owned Audis for around a decade but wouldn't keep one past five years because although they perform great their materials choices and stress on their engines make them very costly over the long haul. The S4 I got rid of last year had a leaking coolant shutoff valve that would have cost $2200 to fix if I didn't have the extended warranty into that fifth year.
Although the 6.4 liter Hemi is in a Dodge brand vehicle it should be considered a high performance expensive engine. Some of those plastic T connectors and other cheap parts though belong in an econobox but even expensive brands are using them these days because they're cheap and weigh little! Age and placement near heat sources is just as important as mileage when it comes to materials like that. And engineers are forced to work to keep costs as low as possible while designing them to last as long as the warranty period. -
Got the truck back yesterday. $2335.53 later. This left a bad taste in my mouth about purchasing used which I have not done in well over 20 years or more.
I have 2 warranties and warranties don't cover hoses. And of course this was a very expensive hose well 3 hose replacement job. The labor alone was $1840.00 which is 7 hours at $230 per hour.
WTF OVER!
To change 3 hoses and it's over 2 grand.
This crap has got to end.
Good thing you didn't need transmission or engine work! -
The only way to truly combat it, is to buck up and fix stuff yourself.
When my XC60 needed new pads and rotors, Volvo dealer quoted me $2,500. Independent shop, $1,600.
Priced it out myself and between materials and new tools (my ratchet set was from college and shot, and I needed a larger torque wrench), $1,000. I also get the added benefit of now having new really nice ratchets, wrench set and big ol’ torque wrench. 😎
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Rear hoses pressed up close to the firewall are apparently a common problem area with the 6.4 engine and labor hours are high to do the fixing at a shop...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2bQchbKi6x0 -
IMHO, it seems dealerships are mostly used for warranty work (at least that's how I use them lol). Warranty work can't be billed out but the techs make the same money regardless of which hood they're under. So it almost makes sense that they hammer people on jobs that are not covered; my local Ford dealer charges like $245/hr for "high end" vehicles like Lincolns and Raptors. But there's a big sign on the wall in the service dept. showing all the labor rates for different groups of vehicles, so when you go there, you have every right to say no thanks.
I have no inside info on this, it's just an observation from the cheap seats, though the local shop that I typically use now charges $150/hr, so $200+ isn't a big uptick. And since this is about cars... YMMV.
If your logic is actually correct, I might have been charged more than standard labor rates due to owning a SRT vs a regular Durango. I'm gonna look into this labor rate thing and see why I paid so much per hour. I know things cost a lot now and my labor rate isn't cheap either.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
You can always ask. While you're at it, ask what the flat rate on that job would have been, though they may not tell you after the fact and for all I know, the manual could say 10 man hours and if so, they cut you a break.
That's the main reason why I use my local shop - I know the owner, I know they take care of me, and I can leave my vehicle there and walk home in 10 minutes.So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
skipshot12 wrote: »Got the truck back yesterday. $2335.53 later. This left a bad taste in my mouth about purchasing used which I have not done in well over 20 years or more.
I have 2 warranties and warranties don't cover hoses. And of course this was a very expensive hose well 3 hose replacement job. The labor alone was $1840.00 which is 7 hours at $230 per hour.
WTF OVER!
To change 3 hoses and it's over 2 grand.
This crap has got to end.
Good thing you didn't need transmission or engine work!
I question if I ever go back to my dealership for any kind of work after that bill.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Upstatemax wrote: »The only way to truly combat it, is to buck up and fix stuff yourself.
When my XC60 needed new pads and rotors, Volvo dealer quoted me $2,500. Independent shop, $1,600.
Priced it out myself and between materials and new tools (my ratchet set was from college and shot, and I needed a larger torque wrench), $1,000. I also get the added benefit of now having new really nice ratchets, wrench set and big ol’ torque wrench. 😎
I'm a retired Technician from the Automotive field and I have a pretty good set of tools including speciality tools . When I need brakes , I will be doing them myself. I have Brembo brakes, 6 piston in the front and 4 piston in the rear so you can only imagine how much they will cost to replace at a dealer. Lucky for me the fronts where just done before I purchased it so I have some time.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I had an incident recently at our local GM dealership here in WY.
I purchased two key fobs that only lock & unlock the doors on my 97 Chevy Tahoe.
The service manager hands the new fobs for my Tahoe, to the mechanic, and said to go program these for this customer, it's quick and easy.
Watched the mechanic fumble around in the vehicle for 20 minutes, he then takes it into the shop bay.
Then there's the manager and 3 more mechanics around my vehicle for another 15 minutes. Out comes the manager which I then said "Oh boy, what's the problem now"?
He says the mechanic found that my receiver is bad, the fob's not communicating with it and the receiver will need to be replaced.
I told him to grab the mechanic, my fobs & a paper clip, and meet me outside with my Tahoe.
Unfolded the paper clip and jumped pin #4 to pin #8 on the OBDII port. Held the fob's open button for 15 seconds, the locks go up and down... programmed.
All I got was a dumbfounded look from the mechanic and the manager.
Needless to say... I tell everyone I run into, when the conversation leads to a dealership, and share the experience I had.
These are the mechanics that are working on your vehicles at these dealership's.
They're either scam artists or they're completely incompetent.
Pick one. -
skipshot12 wrote: »I had an incident recently at our local GM dealership here in WY.
I purchased two key fobs that only lock & unlock the doors on my 97 Chevy Tahoe.
The service manager hands the new fobs for my Tahoe, to the mechanic, and said to go program these for this customer, it's quick and easy.
Watched the mechanic fumble around in the vehicle for 20 minutes, he then takes it into the shop bay.
Then there's the manager and 3 more mechanics around my vehicle for another 15 minutes. Out comes the manager which I then said "Oh boy, what's the problem now"?
He says the mechanic found that my receiver is bad, the fob's not communicating with it and the receiver will need to be replaced.
I told him to grab the mechanic, my fobs & a paper clip, and meet me outside with my Tahoe.
Unfolded the paper clip and jumped pin #4 to pin #8 on the OBDII port. Held the fob's open button for 15 seconds, the locks go up and down... programmed.
All I got was a dumbfounded look from the mechanic and the manager.
Needless to say... I tell everyone I run into, when the conversation leads to a dealership, and share the experience I had.
These are the mechanics that are working on your vehicles at these dealership's.
They're either scam artists or they're completely incompetent.
Pick one.
The Netflix show "Tires" is a sneakily accurate show about mechanics/shops.
My older brother was a mechanic and I spent a lot of time hanging out with him at shops when I was younger. It's essentially a bunch of emotionally stunted gorillas. Their employee bathrooms are wild places.
Watching my brother work, I learned to never, ever piss off the people working on your vehicle, ever.
I'm honestly not being harsh to mechanics, most are hard working and tons of them are super skilled at what they do. However, I despise the dealership model at this point. Car dealers are mostly unethical dirt bags. -
I hate unexpected stuff too.
I was on a trip w the family in Chicago just this past New Years. Rented from Avis, Chevy Suburban. I thought it was a great family suv… good power, nice exhaust sound, comfortable. Then the engine blew. Limited to 25mph, limped back to Avis hub and exchanged it for another large suv. Good thing the wife and kids were at the in-laws while I did the midnight ice run to Ohare.
Chevy is known for V8 engine issues over the last so many years. As old of a company as they are and as good of an engine builder they have been, they still bring in people at the top that make very poor business decisions to go with cheaper parts and then have the most insane amount of issues. Totally unacceptable for a company like them but there you have it.
Sucks that happened to you, at least you don't own it.
The only GM V8 engine I know of that has had major problems is the 6.2 liter from 2021-2024, it was a manufacturing defect. Every Chevy truck I've owned had very reliable engines, it's usually the body that doesn't last. -
OK, so a couple things here.
While where Dan lives isn't as affluent as, like, the "Main Line" towns or the West Chest/Downingtown area in PA, it's not exactly poor either. The 51%+ of households in Bucks County, PA report incomes over $100K or more with 16% of total homes in Bucks County making north of $200k. Those demographics drive local costs because the local market can absorb more without worry.
While I know most of the Dodge dealers in the area, I don't know which one Dan went to. However, I do know that Dodge charges a premium labor rate on SRT vehicles because Dodge was sending techs to special training to work on the high performance vehicles. I don't know if they still do it but this dealer obviously is and that is likely the root of the labor premium. Dodge is not the only one to do it. Ford did it for SVT vehicles, Mercedes does it for AMG vehicles, BMW charges premiums for M vehicles and a very high premium for Alpina vehicles. Whether the techs see any of that premium, I dunno. But it's not uncommon for techs with special training to only be allowed to work on the high dollar vehicles.
And lastly, even though "hoses" are more manifold than hose anymore, they are considered "wear items" and typically aren't even covered by new vehicle warranties anymore. Unless the part can be proven defective or is part of a TSB/Recall, you're likely saddling the cost of it. I had a similar issue on my used vehicle and one hose cost me about $870 to replace. The labor was 2 hours at $195 an hour and the host assembly was $438...for a lower radiator hose. It was more aluminum tubing and crimp fittings than hose too.
Anyway, seems like a high price but given where Dan is, what he's driving and how much needed to be done, I don't think he got a bad deal. His labor charges could have easily been double if they charged book rates on EACH hose replacement. But it looks like they gave him a HUGE break and only charge time clocked on the job. It's a drag but, hey, it's fixed. Go out and take a drive and enjoy your ride. Once all this snow melts, that is.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
And … they were upfront with him about the cost before they did the work.
I’d be curious what the two different warranties he has are? My experience with Mopar Max Care warranties is that this would have been covered.
Brian -
Gotta pay to play. High performance doesn't come cheap- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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OK, so a couple things here.
While where Dan lives isn't as affluent as, like, the "Main Line" towns or the West Chest/Downingtown area in PA, it's not exactly poor either. The 51%+ of households in Bucks County, PA report incomes over $100K or more with 16% of total homes in Bucks County making north of $200k. Those demographics drive local costs because the local market can absorb more without worry.
While I know most of the Dodge dealers in the area, I don't know which one Dan went to. However, I do know that Dodge charges a premium labor rate on SRT vehicles because Dodge was sending techs to special training to work on the high performance vehicles. I don't know if they still do it but this dealer obviously is and that is likely the root of the labor premium. Dodge is not the only one to do it. Ford did it for SVT vehicles, Mercedes does it for AMG vehicles, BMW charges premiums for M vehicles and a very high premium for Alpina vehicles. Whether the techs see any of that premium, I dunno. But it's not uncommon for techs with special training to only be allowed to work on the high dollar vehicles.
And lastly, even though "hoses" are more manifold than hose anymore, they are considered "wear items" and typically aren't even covered by new vehicle warranties anymore. Unless the part can be proven defective or is part of a TSB/Recall, you're likely saddling the cost of it. I had a similar issue on my used vehicle and one hose cost me about $870 to replace. The labor was 2 hours at $195 an hour and the host assembly was $438...for a lower radiator hose. It was more aluminum tubing and crimp fittings than hose too.
Anyway, seems like a high price but given where Dan is, what he's driving and how much needed to be done, I don't think he got a bad deal. His labor charges could have easily been double if they charged book rates on EACH hose replacement. But it looks like they gave him a HUGE break and only charge time clocked on the job. It's a drag but, hey, it's fixed. Go out and take a drive and enjoy your ride. Once all this snow melts, that is.
It's all good, the truck is running great, Dealership already called to make sure everything is tip top , which it is. Yes the Tech's go to SRT training to work on SRT vehicles and they only have a few guys who can work on my SRT vehicle.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
And … they were upfront with him about the cost before they did the work.
I’d be curious what the two different warranties he has are? My experience with Mopar Max Care warranties is that this would have been covered.
The one warranty is a Dodge warranty 7 year 100k miles power train. The other is some 3rd party company I have no idea what it is only that I have it and it covers things the power train warranty does not. It doesn't cover tires, brakes hoses those sort of maintenance items which is completely understandable.
It's all good , I paid the bill, yes I felt it was high as I haven't had to have repair work on vehicles I drive as I usually buy brand new. Getting the truck as a thing I wanted , they stopped making them in 2024 so I couldn't get a new on unless I spent 100k plus for a Hellcat Durango and I wasn't feeling that, well my wife would have shot me , I probably would have walked out of the dealership with a Hellcat IF I drove one. So I decided to find a clean low miles SRT Durango under 70k and I did. So my decision to buy a used vehicle is my own doing. I'm gonna take this one on the chin and next time, I will just buy the damn Hellcat, which I have been considering trading this in and getting one.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Seems like nothing comes cheap. We pay more and get much less. Dan, it still sucks major donkey sack that not long after you purchase the vehicle this happened. Vehicles in general are money pits. Now that it's fixed, go drive around and enjoy it before the next expensive repair. Wash, rinse, repeat. -
Ironically, driving it more may be beneficial. Cars that sit or are only driven short distances tend to rot out faster than the vehicle mileage might indicate.
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Seems like nothing comes cheap. We pay more and get much less. Dan, it still sucks major donkey sack that not long after you purchase the vehicle this happened. Vehicles in general are money pits. Now that it's fixed, go drive around and enjoy it before the next expensive repair. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Once the weather breaks, I can give her a nice full maintenance wash. It dearly needs it. I haven't washed it in months since the cold hit. It's garage kept and I don't drive it everyday so it's not destroyed but it's way past my confort level of dirty.
Yeah It upsets me that I already had to put $2300 into a 6 month old vehicle to me that was well taken care of, all maintenance updates and general care was all done. But it's over now and I'm hoping it will be a while before it needs another multi thousand dollar repair bill.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Ironically, driving it more may be beneficial. Cars that sit or are only driven short distances tend to rot out faster than the vehicle mileage might indicate.
When I drive it, I drive it not to just the local store or the Gym. I put some miles on it so first off it gets to operating temperatures and I stretch it legs so to speak. I'm a former GM and Nissan Technician and I know the importance of not letting a vehicle sit to long or short drives especially in the winter months.
When my wife needs something , it's usually at least 30 minutes to an hour away one way so I get some good highway miles on it. Despite not driving it everyday I did put 5 thousand miles on it in 6 months which is unusually high for my garage queen vehicles.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
