Veri Fi SnubWay......don't listen to music, experience it!

muncybob · March 18

Looks like the discount price is no longer available.

treitz3 · March 18

Yeah, Veri-Fi only had 10 of each available at that price. Sounds like they cleared out fast.

Tom

treitz3 · March 18

bcwsrt wrote: »

Master Class, one hour in, has muddied things up a bit....<snip>

Now, I have to admit, this has perked up my curiosity a bit. When I installed my MC, I knew within about an hour and a half that it was a definite winner. It left no doubt in my mind at that point. Now, I know all systems differ a tad bit and noise is a nasty gremlin but I am curious....where do you have it plugged in?

Well, a handful of questions, actually.

1 - Where do you have the MC plugged in?
2 - Where do you have the Snubway plugged in?
3 - Is your entire system on the same (verified) circuit?
4 - How many available outlets did you have to begin with? (on the wall or in a power strip)
5 - Is the current location of the MC at or near a transformer or PS unit within a certain component?
6 - When you stated that it had muddied things up a bit, what source were you using and was that source directly tied to the same circuit/plug that the MC was plugged into?

Tom

muncybob · March 18

I'm starting a new thread on the Snub Way. Been in touch with Mark and he is making available a unit for a Polkie Road Test.

treitz3 · March 18

Dude! Fantastic man. That is so awesome.

Tom

bcwsrt · March 18

Tom, I think all the questions are a bit premature. I only listened for maybe two hours last night and that was my initial, off-the-cuff one-sentence reaction to it. I feel like the SnubWay didn’t surprise me until the second day I listened with it installed.

Let me have a couple more days to listen more, move it around if I’m still not happy and even to pull it back out again so I can elaborate more on what I’m hearing.

As I said, I don’t expect there to be any issues in the end, but if there are (and after reporting back and answering your questions and following your, and others’, recommendations to resolve them), I’d be happy enough just with the SnubWay.

treitz3 · March 18

Okay and duly noted. Have fun listening and playing around with them. The Snubway definitely took 2 days but the MC definitely did not....well, in my system at least. Thanks man.

Tom

bcwsrt · March 18

Thanks for taking that the right way. I thought it might’ve come across a little harsh after I posted it. I know you are just trying to help and I appreciate it. 👍

Stay tuned …

treitz3 · March 18

msg wrote: »

I'd be interested to know whether there's any difference without the others and only the SnubWay, if you can risk a disruption in The Force.

Completely understandable if you prefer not. The obvious reason being that most of us don't have any other additive noise removal devices.

Please accept my apologies for the delay. So, I got curious and tried this tonight. That didn't last that long. I listened to about 3 or 4 songs, and while the difference was slight, it was noticeable. Sorry for the delay, but as mentioned before? Don't fix what ain't broke.

Apparently, these devices are a cumulative effect. Even though (in this case) the effect is minimal. The devices removed were one i-Fi A/C conditioner and 3 PS Audio Noise harvesters upstream of the audio room's circuit.

Tom

bcwsrt · March 20

Well, I may be onto something. The Master Class absolutely did not like the original spot I had it in. I'm currently on my third location after trying the same APC H15 PC location that I put the SnubWay in, also with no success. This location is not ideal because I had something else plugged in there already, but I can make it work if the results are there.

I wish I could get the Master Class (and the SnubWay, for that matter) in a location before the amp and PC, but it's just not possible without an investment in longer power cables ($$$), as those two components are in the first outlet near the fusebox and I'd have to relocate them downstream. I'm guessing that is probably why my results are somewhat less than great, so far, with the Master Class. I feel like I got 80-90% of what Tom describes in his posts in this thread with just the SnubWay, so if my results are any indication, the SnubWay is the right one to do the "road test" with.

I've got one or two other things I want to try before posting any conclusions, but it's been enjoyable chilling with some tunes while I evaluate the Master Class's impact.

treitz3 · March 20

One idea presented elsewhere would be to go to HD and get a 20amp 3 way splitter. It isn't ideal but it would allow you to place the original equipment into the same outlet, along with both the Snubway and MC. If it doesn't work out, you could always return it. A Ridgid 3 plug, heavy duty 2' extension cord only costs $23, and might also allow to to do more experimenting to see what works best for you. Just food for thought.

Alternatively, if your outlets are in series, you could possibly place them in the outlet before your system.

Tom

treitz3 · March 20

One other thing I would like to mention is this. The impact from each unit (at least on my rig) were equal.....maybe with a slight nod to the MC (but that may have been because of the cumulative effect, I never took out the Snubway just to test the MC). With both of them? I am STILL in awe at what I am hearing. Not, "pretty much" everytime I listen. It's literally everytime I listen. Whether the rig is cold, or if it has been running non-stop for days on end. FWIW.

Tom

bcwsrt · March 22

Good suggestions, Tom. Thanks. I don't really want to add any more cords than I already have, though. I already feel like my cable management practices need help as it is! 🫤

I am still going to try the splitter idea in case it’s just super-picky about location, but at the moment with all the places I’ve been able to try it so far, I'm coming to the conclusion that the Master Class just doesn't add what the SnubWay did in my system, for whatever reason. In fact, it was a negative impact in one location. Of course, given the other positions I tried, it's totally possible that either my system doesn't reveal those differences (I've seen the photos of your rig!), or ... my 58 year-old hearing just doesn't pick them up anymore.

I added new Nordost Heimdall 2 interconnects to my DAC about a month ago. The instrument separation and clarity to voices those provided within about two days was incredible. A few weeks later the SnubWay arrived. Complemented and added to the interconnect change in every way, plus expanded the soundstage big time and provided depth. Heard things in familiar recordings I'd never heard before.

I'm going to keep working on the Master Class just because there are so many good reports on it everywhere. And, sooner or later, I'm going to have a different listening room situation where I should be able to put it in a more recommended position ahead of the components and see what happens.

I’ll report back again once I get the splitter and hopefully that sheds light on what could be. Might even try it in the family room where the TV is, based on what @pearsall001 mentioned about his in the "SnubWay road test" thread.

Meanwhile, I'll keep enjoying the SnubWay!

haudevbe · March 28

That sounds like an incredible experience! Whatever device or tweak you’ve added to your system clearly made a profound impact. Care to share what it is? Given your reaction, I’m guessing it’s something that significantly reduces noise, enhances detail retrieval, or improves the overall musicality of your setup.

Is it a power conditioner, a DAC upgrade, a reclocker, or some kind of isolation tweak? I’m curious because I’ve seen a few game-changing products in this price range that can elevate an audio system far beyond expectations.

bcwsrt · March 28

It's a bot!

F1nut · March 28

Yep and been reported. The same user name and type of posts are all over the Net.

Polkitup2 · March 30

I have had the Snubway and Main Stream plugged in my system for about 8 days now - Initially, I was not blown away by what I was hearing. I did notice some improvement in clarity and reduction in noise floor, but it kind of left me feeling underwhelmed.

Fast forward to three days later and when I sat down to listen I was like "Wow". Something had changed for the better - by a lot. I was now hearing much more clarity and the reduced noise floor allowed me to hear more low level detail in recordings. I noticed for the first time room ambience in some jazz recordings that I had not picked up on before and the music overall seemed to reach out and pull me in more than it had previously.

I tried various positions for the devices and for now have settled on the Snubway being in the duplex outlet that my power conditioner is plugged into and having the Main Stream plugged into the first outlet on my power conditioner. This configuration was recommended by Vera-fi and seemed to work best for me. When I removed either one of the devices the result was less than when using both.

Mark from Vera-Fi was very helpful with any questions I had. Highly recommended to try. Thanks Tom for recommending these devices!

maxward · March 30

My experience pretty much mirrors that of @Polkitup2 . It took a few days to realize the full effect. I was a bit hesitant to plug my integrated amp into anything other than the wall. So I tried it into the power conditioner for a few days before the Snubway and Main Stream arrived and heard no difference. This allowed me to use them as Mark recommended. After about two weeks I swapped them. I just swapped them back and am convinced that this is the best configuration so far. I suppose I could try more combinations, but at this point I’m not sure I’ll bother. I recommend that if you’re on the fence, take advantage of the trial being offered.

muncybob · April 13

I put this in the road test thread, should have been put here.

So, while I've had the SW for almost 2 weeks, I did not have a lot of time to spend with it until the last few days. As previously stated, I was not expecting much from my modest rig and esp from my ears.

I was pleasantly surprised though. Initially I would be listening carefully for "differences", maybe too carefully. Then just a few nights ago I settled in to some very familiar tunes and took off my critical hat and just enjoyed the music. After a bit I noticed that my feet were tapping and head somewhat bobbing more than usual, then it occurred to me I was actually enjoying the tunes more than usual. This revelation brought a smile to my face and then the critical listening hat was put back on, why the change?

I must say I wasn't hearing much of anything I had not heard before, but what I was hearing was clearer. When centered on good recordings, vocals sound like the artist was right in front of me. Same also with keyboards. After realizing this I actually got a bit excited which lead me to listen to more music than usual.

By this time the Mrs was off to bed and the system had to be turned down a bit to avoid nasty comments from upstairs. The L600s along with the sub really shine in the bass department, esp with a bit of volume. Previously I would miss the bass a bit at the reduced volume, but not this time.

I can't say that the SW can improve a poor recording though, actually just the opposite. But to my ears, a well recorded album sounds really good. I wish I had a more revealing system because I still have that "can it get better" itch

jdjohn · April 13

My time with the SnubWay in the demo 'road test' program is done, so now it's time for me to relay my experience. The demo unit had no previous break-in time (from what Bob discerned), so I waited a few days before doing any serious, critical listening. As far as placement, I plugged the SnubWay into the second socket in my main rig's duplex outlet. The outlet is a PS Audio job (can't remember the model #), but it has a very firm grip.

For background, the other socket in my PS Audio outlet has a Puritan PSM156 power conditioner plugged into it. So, one socket had the PSM156 plugged into it (with all of my separate components), and the other socket had the SnubWay plugged into it. I found this configuration to yield the best results.

After allowing a few days of burn-in for the SnubWay, I started doing some A/B, critical listening. I will go ahead and state that the differences I heard were somewhat subtle, and not night-and-day differences. I personally think (in my system) that the filtering capabilities of the Puritan PSM156 power conditioner did most of the heavy-lifting, and what the SnubWay did was incremental, BUT still recognizable.

The most basic adjective I can convey with the SnubWay is more 'loudness'. With the SnubWay in-place, it seemed that the volume output was 0.5-1.0 dB louder. That is not really possible with a passive device in-circuit, so I have to assume that it is a lower noise floor (due to filtering), equating to a louder perceived volume in musical content. This also equated to a bit more separation and isolation in instruments.

I also perceived a slightly wider and deeper soundstage with the SnubWay in-place. With the SnubWay, the wall of sound from my loudspeakers expanded a bit, both in 2D and 3D. I did several listening tests with the SnubWay in-place, and then with the SnubWay unplugged. The results were consistent.

So, is it worth it? From what I have read, the Main Stream/Master Class seems to have a more pronounced impact. Is the SnubWay minor league, and the MC major league?

muncybob · April 14

Sounds like your experience was very similar to mine. Clearer and different in a good way.

heiney9 · April 14

jdjohn wrote: »

My time with the SnubWay in the demo 'road test' program is done, so now it's time for me to relay my experience. The demo unit had no previous break-in time (from what Bob discerned), so I waited a few days before doing any serious, critical listening. As far as placement, I plugged the SnubWay into the second socket in my main rig's duplex outlet. The outlet is a PS Audio job (can't remember the model #), but it has a very firm grip.

For background, the other socket in my PS Audio outlet has a Puritan PSM156 power conditioner plugged into it. So, one socket had the PSM156 plugged into it (with all of my separate components), and the other socket had the SnubWay plugged into it. I found this configuration to yield the best results.

After allowing a few days of burn-in for the SnubWay, I started doing some A/B, critical listening. I will go ahead and state that the differences I heard were somewhat subtle, and not night-and-day differences. I personally think (in my system) that the filtering capabilities of the Puritan PSM156 power conditioner did most of the heavy-lifting, and what the SnubWay did was incremental, BUT still recognizable.

The most basic adjective I can convey with the SnubWay is more 'loudness'. With the SnubWay in-place, it seemed that the volume output was 0.5-1.0 dB louder. That is not really possible with a passive device in-circuit, so I have to assume that it is a lower noise floor (due to filtering), equating to a louder perceived volume in musical content. This also equated to a bit more separation and isolation in instruments.

I also perceived a slightly wider and deeper soundstage with the SnubWay in-place. With the SnubWay, the wall of sound from my loudspeakers expanded a bit, both in 2D and 3D. I did several listening tests with the SnubWay in-place, and then with the SnubWay unplugged. The results were consistent.

So, is it worth it? From what I have read, the Main Stream/Master Class seems to have a more pronounced impact. Is the SnubWay minor league, and the MC major league?

I am due at some point to demo this. My Puritan conditioner has made such a huge difference I am not sure this will even register. So, it's good to hear your comments and I'll try it the same way to see if I can hear a difference.

H9

PSOVLSK · April 14

jdjohn wrote: »

Is the SnubWay minor league, and the MC major league?

My understanding is that they are equal but handle different frequencies, so they are meant to be used in tandem.

Clipdat · April 15

This StubNose stuff is all fine and dandy, but what if I like noise and want to add more back in to my system? Is there a product that does that besides tube amps? LMK!

muncybob · April 15

I never gave a thought about "noise" in my system. I think I need an education of just what you can expect to hear in a noisy circuit and how did it get there in the first place....motor running(fridge,freezer in the home)....other environments that are getting there power from the same source/line?

I'm wondering if I did not have a WOW experience because we don't have a lot of this noise to begin with? We are in a rural setting with very few homes within a square mile of us, does that make a difference? It would obviously make a lot of sense if there isn't a lot of noise to begin with that nothing in the circuit should make a big improvement, right?

We do not have any noise filtering in our system other than what perhaps may exist in the Panamax outlet/surge box.

treitz3 · April 15

@Clipdat Said respectfully, can you try to be a gentleman, instead of a smart aleck when joining in on the conversation? It's called a Snubway. Every post you have made on this thread, and the other one, rings with the same tone. It's getting rather old and doesn't further anyone's knowledge, or the conversation. It just adds unnecessary noise to the conversation.

So, let me clarify a bit on the noise I am talking about. It's a combination of noise floor, room minimum dB level, RFI, EMI and Schuman resonance, Eddy currents, phase noise and/or jitter, ground noise, common mode noise, leakage current, Allan deviation, reflections within the room or even the cables themself, timing variances within the 1's and 0's (whether it be immediate, misread, short or long), along with noise that rides the incoming A/C waveform, or if you stream? Through that incoming cable and upstream infrastructure noise. These are just some of the things that affect the sound and yes, it's audible when these types of noises are gone.

This noises aforementioned are not the same as vinyl surface noise from a TT or tube noise, although you want to try and keep those as low as possible as well. What I am saying is that the noise I am referring too is not the same. Many people don't even know they have noise…..until it's gone.

PSOVLSK wrote: »

My understanding is that they are equal but handle different frequencies, so they are meant to be used in tandem.

Correct. The Veri-Fi Main Stream - Master Class Dynamic Parallel AC Line Conditioner is focused on and targets the frequency range from 10kHz to 20kHz, but it's particularly potent in and around the critical 20kHz region, where hum, hiss, and hash tend to be most prominent. The SnubWay's greatest range of effectiveness is targeting the problematic 400kHz-600kHz range.

I had made the comment that I would give the MC the nod as to the greater effectiveness, but this is on my system and I already had the Snubway in place for 1/2 a year, so that may very well just be chalked up to a cumulative effect. Every one has differing noise levels, so what works as "the best" for one person's system, may not reflect the situation in someone else's system. And vice-versa.

When it comes to the Puritan, it is my understanding that every outlet is on a dedicated isolation transformer, which block electrical noise and interference by providing galvanic isolation. Either one of these devices (and this is only conjecture) would be rendered useless on a device like that. In Jody's case, he found that adding the Snubway into the outlet that feeds the Puritan yielded the best results for him. That makes sense, but when he still noticed a consistent difference after installing the Snubway, it just makes the argument that the Puritan removes much of, but not all of the noise.

I have found this to be true, no matter the product used, or a companies "claim" that all noise is eliminated. I have yet to find any product that eliminates all of the noise. That said, the products that I have introduced into the rig have severely thwarted the audible noise and the end result is simply nothing less than spectacular - for what you actually hear (and more importantly, what you don't hear).

Tom

bcwsrt · April 15

Right or wrong, I have viewed the SnubWay and Master Class devices as stepping stones to a Puritan at some point in the future. As a “budget” means of seeing what noise removal can do, if you will. Of course, I should now be able to use them all together at some point. I will also look forward to @heiney9’s comments about the SnubWay/Puritan combo.

treitz3 · April 15

muncybob wrote: »

I'm wondering if I did not have a WOW experience because we don't have a lot of this noise to begin with?

Sounds logical.

muncybob wrote: »

We are in a rural setting with very few homes within a square mile of us, does that make a difference?

Oh, yeah!

muncybob wrote: »

It would obviously make a lot of sense if there isn't a lot of noise to begin with that nothing in the circuit should make a big improvement, right?

I cannot argue that. It makes perfect sense (at least it does to me).

muncybob wrote: »

We do not have any noise filtering in our system other than what perhaps may exist in the Panamax outlet/surge box.

Now here is where we differ, and this may go to help explain the inquiry of your first question. I have many products utilized within my rig that directly attack noise from entering the system, both in the room and outside the room. Each product seems to attack different things. Some of these are very subtle in noise abatement, while others are flat out undeniable and absolutely wonderful in what they do and how they affect the system's performance.

I'd like to point out that in no way am I an expert on noise. Heck, I just started discovering it when I noticed that my streaming rig started to sound much quieter than my Reference Marantz SA-7S1, with a separate DAC. One of the revelatory times was when I was at Trey's house years ago. It took me a while to remember where this post was made, but here I am talking about "noise". Not even on my system! It is very audible, as you are about to read...

treitz3 wrote: »

So, I was privately speaking with Trey about these "unwanted artifact(s)" and we started talking about what options he would have to do/what he could possibly do to change it. During this discussion, Trey looks down at his phone and jumps up like he just won the lottery or something. After a mad dash out the door, he comes back in with this little box. I'm thinkin', what's he so excited about?

Apparently, he had ordered a 1.5 meter digital cable. Little to my knowledge, apparently the length of the cable is just as much, if not more important than the metallurgy or build quality because of feedback issues. Who knew? Well, apparently he did. So, we unbox and unwrap this cable, shut the system down and within 5 minutes, the system was back up and running, new digital cable installed.

We didn't know what to expect but man, that cable made a pretty remarkable difference in Trey's rig. From top to bottom, the clarity, texture, detail, definition increased in spades (not a subtle difference) and it removed "unwanted artifacts" that were present in the midrange drivers, so you were able to hear things that were always there, but masked. Much more musical information was now easily heard and we both heard things that we did not hear just an hour or two before (or ever on his system).

Everything I was relaying to Trey that was in need of attention got taken care of within 5 minutes. Now, everything is in crystal clear focus with great clarity, texture and definition. Up and down the spectrum of frequencies, there was a noticeable difference.....but that critical midrange issue? Gone. *Poof*. Like it was never there. Now I really wanted to stay!

Now, I have since learned that what the cable swap out did, was reduce the reflections within the cable itself. I didn't know at the time that what I was describing was this "noise" that I am talking about here. 1 cable is all that changed that day. But it helped, very effectively might I add, to thwart what I used to describe back then as "unwanted artifacts". This very thing is part of what I am trying to point out as noise in a system.

Tom

treitz3 · April 15

Oh, I'd also like to point this out. The cable that was replaced was the same exact cable as the one that was previously installed. The ONLY difference between the two was the length.

Without the new cable even being broke in yet (compared to the cable that had been in his system for quite some time), the differences were immediately audible and when we first noticed what we did, neither of us were even sitting in the sweet spot, because the both of us were not really expecting to hear any change whatsoever.

The look we both gave each other (*off axis) after about 20 seconds of a song we had just played an hour or so earlier was priceless. We both knew what we heard, and we both had the same observations but that look...

That look summed up confusion, excitement, insightfulness, discovery and awe, to name but a few. It was very enlightening and pinpointed one of the exact noises I am referrring to here. FWIW.

Tom

muncybob · April 15

"so you were able to hear things that were always there, but masked." Tom, thanks for the input and this is what I have experienced thus far with the SW.

You've got me thinking about cable length now, as I know there are cables in my rig that are too long. I have a birthday coming up, hmmmmmmmm

Veri Fi SnubWay......don't listen to music, experience it!

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