Tragedy Over The Potomac...
Comments
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Damn!
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I guarantee the helicopter was at fault.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Air traffic controllers are likely to blame here. It looks as if the passenger jet was locked in the groove for final and the Blackhawk given clearance to lift off. I believe civilian ATC would have had full control here, so miscommunication between military and civilian controllers should not be an issue.
The pilot of the Blackhawk ultimately will be blamed as his/her situational awareness should have been on high alert flying out of Reagan.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it? -
The conspiracy theories are already flying around along with the blame.
None of this is productive.
It’s going to take months for the investigation to play out. For now let’s just keep the families of the crash victims in our prayers, as there were no survivors. -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Air traffic controllers are likely to blame here. It looks as if the passenger jet was locked in the groove for final and the Blackhawk given clearance to lift off. I believe civilian ATC would have had full control here, so miscommunication between military and civilian controllers should not be an issue.
The pilot of the Blackhawk ultimately will be blamed as his/her situational awareness should have been on high alert flying out of Reagan.
The helicopter was already in the air, flying south down the Potomac towards the airport.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Saw that this morning Jesse. Last night’s reporting did not make that clear.nooshinjohn wrote: »Air traffic controllers are likely to blame here. It looks as if the passenger jet was locked in the groove for final and the Blackhawk given clearance to lift off. I believe civilian ATC would have had full control here, so miscommunication between military and civilian controllers should not be an issue.
The pilot of the Blackhawk ultimately will be blamed as his/her situational awareness should have been on high alert flying out of Reagan.
The helicopter was already in the air, flying south down the Potomac towards the airport.
SecDef said the Blackhawk was on a night training mission that called for the helo to fly a route along the river.
It will take time to sort through but it is clear that communication issues between both aircraft and controllers will be looked at with intense scrutiny. The other aspect to me is the decision making on the part of the Army for making a training flight directly into the glide slope of incoming commercial aircraft. Seems like Darwin levels of stupidity will be a big part of this.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it? -
Terrible tragedy and completely avoidable loss of life. Horrible.
ATC audio instructed the helicopter to get eyes on the incoming traffic and maintain separation. Really wish he would've just given him a new heading to fly, instead of ever letting him enter the same airspace that was about to be used for a landing. -
Indeed!!!Seems like Darwin levels of stupidity will be a big part of this.
It's amazing this hasn't happened before. Not only are there commercial airplanes flying in and out of Reagan non-stop, but right across the river is Bolling AFB, which has fighter jets flying in and out non-stop. In addition, there is no storage of military, news and sightseeing helicopters flying up and down the Potomac.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
(from NYT)
The helicopter was trundling along at 200 feet -- the RJ was on final approach, seconds from the runway.
An awful mishap.
Surprised there aren't more, though -- DC airspace has always been tricky at best and generally insane.
Pointless aside: My father worked on his private pilot's license for quite a while in the mid-70s (he never finished, though), flying initially out of Bay Bridge airport on Kent Island, but later out of Friendship/BWI (now Thurgood Marshall Baltimore-Washington Int'l). DC/Baltimore had a TCA (don't know if they still do); and, despite the military and large commercial airports, was and still is dotted with tiny general aviation/private airstrips and airports. The level of alertness required to fly anywhere in that area is incredible.
EDIT: another pointless aside: Our son & daughter in law live in Alexandria, not all that far south of DCA. He pinged me last night the moment it happened, although he didn't hear the collision, but the sequelae were immediately apparent (particularly the sudden decrease of air traffic). -
(from the above-mentioned NYT coverage)
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This is very sad. As reported communication between ATC and helicopters transmits on a different radio frequency than with airline travel. The plane followed orders to approach and land on different runway.
ATC notified the helicopter, to fall behind the plane, transmission could have been to late for the helicopter to adjust. As for the plane, the pilot likely didn't even know about the helicopter.
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erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
First off, this is a sad accident. My thoughts go out to all of those who lost their life, along with the friends and family of all involved.
I just came in from out of town and was able to see the first newscast about this. Horrible and preventable tragedy, for sure.
Common sense would say that a plane has limited ability to maneuver. A Blackhawk should have seen this scenario happen a mile before it should have....and should have been able to maneuver accordingly. Especially with a reported two pilots at the helm.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Following up on my post above.
https://nypost.com/2025/01/30/us-news/ronald-reagan-washington-one-of-most-demanding-airports-in-us/
There's a small parking lot off the GW Parkway just north of Reagan where you can sit and watch all the commercial and military planes flying around with helicopters mixed in everywhere. It's truly insane.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Most of this is known, but this guy has a cool channel if you want alot of aviation basics, and describes them in a comprehensible manner.
https://youtu.be/hfgllf1L9_4?feature=shared -
What I don't understand, and I get the restricted airspace, but why would they allow a helicopter to depart INTO inbound traffic on final, and not in a more easterly direction towards Anacostia?
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What I don't understand is why ATC didn't take charge and instead of asking....do you see the plane?......give decisive orders to the military helicopter pilot to reduced airspeed to XX and alter course to XX. I find other people's explanations that the military helicopter was on "visual separation" protocols insufficient to explain ATC not giving the warning of "you are on a likely collision course" and to give appropriate orders. In the dark especially, I don't care how experienced the pilot, you can't really tell what vector another plane is truly on, relative to your own position. Even with nightvision equipment. When there can be more than one plane, asking if they see the plane doesn't cut it.George / NJ
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It sounds like there is blame to go around in all directions.
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It sounds like there is blame to go around in all directions.
The only blameless people here appear to be those, pilots included, on the passenger jet. They were eyes forward on the runway ahead of them, seconds from touchdown. I don't think we will ever get to hear their final words from the cockpit, but they didn't even have time to say "oh $hit" before it was over.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it? -
Most of this is known, but this guy has a cool channel if you want alot of aviation basics, and describes them in a comprehensible manner.https://youtu.be/hfgllf1L9_4?feature=shared
Damn it! He stole my title word for word. 🧐 -
What I don't understand, and I get the restricted airspace, but why would they allow a helicopter to depart INTO inbound traffic on final, and not in a more easterly direction towards Anacostia?
The helicopter was already airborne. It was flying south down the Potomac. There is a diagram showing the direction of each craft online.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I have visited the area doing business in Manassas, VA. It's like any other populous with a river tourist area, lots of lights.
Just like driving on a 6 lane road, in traffic at night while it's raining and roads are wet in a big city. Lights-a-twinkling everywhere.
The perception as described in the video is probably accurate. You are locked into one thing but not the other.
With private helos and aircraft site seeing, or military operations up and down the river crossing entering and exiting aircraft is a recipe for a disaster, at some point.
You add the fact that our nations headquarters are within minutes of this area, IMHO show's a sign of weakness in our nations security.
May we bless those affected by this terrible tragedy.
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erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Interestingly, they have released the names of the two male crew on board, but not the name of the female pilot.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What I don't understand, and I get the restricted airspace, but why would they allow a helicopter to depart INTO inbound traffic on final, and not in a more easterly direction towards Anacostia?
The helicopter was already airborne. It was flying south down the Potomac. There is a diagram showing the direction of each craft online.
True, it's just crazy to think an acceptable path is nearly inline with approaching aircraft on final. Maybe head east to Anacostia then turn back south?
Either way, the helicopter had a 200 ft ceiling and obviously broke that whether it was instrument error or pilot error.
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What happened to F1's post about the required number of controllers?Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
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What happened to F1's post about the required number of controllers?
Some people just can't stand anything with a bit of controversy so they "Flag" it. -
What happened to F1's post about the required number of controllers?
The FAA didn't give it clearance. 😆 -
Interestingly, they have released the names of the two male crew on board, but not the name of the female pilot.
Does her name start with the letter "J"? 🤔 -
It does. They released her name, it's José.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Haha..nice one.
Would you care to buy a vowel? -
I doubt it. It’s possible that Vanilla has developed good AI tools that automatically flag posts for removal.
Having to actually pay anyone to manually moderate such nonsense might not be financially feasible on a free forum, given the state of Sound United’s business future currently.
I doubt that anyone personally wastes time flagging anything on here. I certainly don’t.
AI in Vanilla? 🤣
No, it's as simple as flagging. I didn't say anyone is reviewing the flags. It could be a simple script to remove all flagged posts.
