Hana Phono Cartridges?

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msg
msg Posts: 9,522
in 2 Channel Audio
Forking a post by @Keiko over here
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/198176/goldring-1012gx-mm-cartridge

With all the turntable talk lately, I've been loosely back on considering a cart upgrade down the road, and doing more reading again.

I reviewed some old correspondence with Kevin at KAB, and he mentioned that people like the Hana ML. It didn't register with me at first when @treitz3 posted on the thread linked above that their friend Rick runs a Hana ML, because I didn't remember that tidbit Kevin mentioned.

The Hana ML features Hana's "Microline" stylus. I thought all their stylii were Shibata. This question re: the difference between the two does not seem uncommon, and I have to do some more reading on this. I think the design is supposed to be similar.

Thinking about trying one of the Hana carts, but there are a few feature improvements in the line-up jumps.
  • Umami Red and Blue both feature boron cantilevers, and cryo treatment on the coil. Boron is supposed to have similar hardness as diamond, so, more rigid than aluminum, which has my attention given my experience with Wayne's Audio edge ring and center clamp/weight, which really cinches down the record. Boron cantilevers are supposed to refine and retrieve detail even further, especially when used with a microline stylus.
  • ML is sort of middle of the tech road, and well reviewed.
  • SL is the upper entry level range for Hana.
  • Below SL, you drop down to an elliptical stylus.

Any of you guys running a Hana cart?

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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,524
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    One of our members had it
    Hated it
    Switched to Lyra
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    Do you know which version, and what he didn't like? Which Lyra, and does he still like that one?

    Any other details appreciated, like music genres, etc.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,105
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    I hear really good things about the Hana cartridges from folks in the 'hood whose ears I trust.
    No experience myself, though.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,633
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    Ken reviewed the Hana Umami Red for TAB and liked it: https://theaudiobeatnik.com/review-the-hana-umami-red-moving-coil-cartridge/
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,524
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    msg wrote: »
    Do you know which version, and what he didn't like? Which Lyra, and does he still like that one?

    Any other details appreciated, like music genres, etc.

    I messaged him
    I’ll find out for you
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 4,531
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    Upscale has the Hana's on sale for a nice discount.
    I suppose that Hana gives you a taste of high end
    without the price tag.

    The Hana MC ML gives you really nice detail and less noise
    that your usual MM fair. I think you lose a little warmth in
    the process. FWIW
    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    I can't speak for the Hana carts either other than I heard they were good. The Goldring 1012GX I can speak of and I think it's an awesome MC cartridge. Lively, detailed, punchy and kinda ugly, but I didn't buy it to look at. I bought it to listen too.
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  • CottageChz
    CottageChz Posts: 366
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    Ordered a Hana EL today, hoping for good things. This is the first MC cart I’ll have tried.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    CottageChz wrote: »
    Ordered a Hana EL today, hoping for good things. This is the first MC cart I’ll have tried.

    Well? Did you get it yet?!? It's been a whole day! 😂

    Definitely curious to hear your impressions with this, what you've used prior, and how it compares.

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  • CottageChz
    CottageChz Posts: 366
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    LOL the local dealer is getting it for me, they said they’d place the order tomorrow. Probably will be at least a week before I have it set up. I’ll do my best to post some meaningful impressions for you all, I’ll have to see if I can get my terminology right haha. I’m working with an Ortofon 2M Blue right now so that will be my comparison point.
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,227
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    Somehow, I recall reading these Hana are made in the same factory as the Sumiko carts. It's been some time since I was looking though.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,197
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    Joey_V wrote: »
    One of our members had it
    Hated it
    Switched to Lyra

    Lyra makes great carts all around, but they start at about 2K with the Delios. So not the same range as the Hana SL. Honestly think I’d be buying a Sumiko or Ortofon in that price range. The Rega Ania is also very very good at around 900

    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,016
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    Hana carts have a great heritage from Excel Sound in Japan.

    Their cart descriptors have first, the stylus tip of E (elliptical), S (Shibata), or M (micro-line/ridge).

    The second descriptor is in regards to the output. H is for high-output (meaning, moving coil high-output), and L is for low-output (meaning, moving coil low-output).

    Sorry if this was obvious, but it might stand repeating.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    That is a good post, Jody. It's not obvious at first, and, in fact, I only just learned it today myself. I've see some product copy whose authors don't know this.
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,016
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    Thanks, Scott! I am here to share and learn...mostly learn, from the old farts seasoned veterans here :p
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    Uhh, Jody, I think most here would agree that you've developed an encyclopedic knowledge of vinyl and turntable stuff at this stage. I do admire your perpetual student modesty. You're always one of my go-to resource dudes for sensible, practical, amd meaningful refinement areas for turntable questions!
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,016
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    Happy to help :) I've enjoyed a nice variety of tt setups, which has exposed me to many different aspects. However, I don't yet have a Wayne's Ring, so losing some street cred there ;)
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    You know you're getting one from Mrs. Claus. She just doesn't know it yet.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    CottageChz wrote: »
    Ordered a Hana EL today, hoping for good things. This is the first MC cart I’ll have tried.

    Well?!? It's been nearly a week! Where is it! and how does it sound? Where's @VR3 when you need him? Slack. Pics! Review!

    C'mon, I'm counting on you to be an enabler. I just don't have it in me to be my own enabler anymore. (cough cough)

    Jody, what's my M.O. again? Get phono stuff, sit on it for three years getting ready to get ready to set it up?
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  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,629
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    You and @Keiko convinced me to bite on the Wayne’s ring and clamp. Does it help if I say I think you need to spend a minimum of that amount on a new Hana cart?!

    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    bcwsrt wrote: »
    You and @Keiko convinced me to bite on the Wayne’s ring and clamp. Does it help if I say I think you need to spend a minimum of that amount on a new Hana cart?!
    Lol
    mmmaaybe?

    That whole thing was just an experiment to see if we could influence people enough to buy rings. We just found those photos on the innernet. We don't even have rings, but I kinda want one now after seeing yours. It's so shiny and prrrehhh-shuuusss...

    I'm so easily swayed. I can't watch infomercials.

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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    I'm very tempted, and am feeling an obsessive vinyl phase coming on again. I have some ideas to tweak a Pro-ject Debut Carbon a very good buddy gave me on infinitely long-term loan. All this talk and interest in record stabilization and mass loading, different carts, stiffening the pickup path, and coupling/decoupling - I've been thinking about building up the plinth, creating voids/cavities to mass load with lead shot and sand, and trying my ring and clamp on it. It has a carbon tonearm. Maybe a winter project.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,524
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    For sure a perimeter ring and a center weight alter the sound
    I’ve heard it when my tables spin without either one of them or both.
    I’m gonna run more experiments tonight
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • CottageChz
    CottageChz Posts: 366
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    Don’t have it yet! I know they placed the order on Saturday, but they said the shop owner is out of town for the week or something. Not really sure why that’s relevant, but I told them I wasn’t in a huge rush, so I’m thinking I’ll be hearing from them early next week.
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    msg wrote: »
    I'm very tempted, and am feeling an obsessive vinyl phase coming on again. I have some ideas to tweak a Pro-ject Debut Carbon a very good buddy gave me on infinitely long-term loan. All this talk and interest in record stabilization and mass loading, different carts, stiffening the pickup path, and coupling/decoupling - I've been thinking about building up the plinth, creating voids/cavities to mass load with lead shot and sand, and trying my ring and clamp on it. It has a carbon tonearm. Maybe a winter project.

    Scott, did you ever do the cable mod on your Technics? My table is still stock basically, but removing the hard wired cable and installing an RCA terminal is something I've been wanting to do to mine for a long time now.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    CottageChz wrote: »
    Don’t have it yet! I know they placed the order on Saturday, but they said the shop owner is out of town for the week or something. Not really sure why that’s relevant, but I told them I wasn’t in a huge rush, so I’m thinking I’ll be hearing from them early next week.
    Did you tell them about me, who I am, and that I'm in a rush for this information? That ought to light a fire under them.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,522
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    Keiko wrote: »
    Scott, did you ever do the cable mod on your Technics? My table is still stock basically, but removing the hard wired cable and installing an RCA terminal is something I've been wanting to do to mine for a long time now.

    Hey Mike! No, I haven't done any mods to my SL-1210 yet. Yeah, same here my table is all stock, and I agree - I've been interested in installing the RCA terminals mod. However, years back, I talked to Kevin (and/or someone else?) about it, and they told me that the OE Technics cable is actually pretty good? Something about the capacitance? Also, I think there was a run of 1200s that had a screwy cable that had higher capacitance and it affected play. I think they may have recalled/repaired, them, I'm not sure.
    I didn't look into it much further, but I do vaguely recall reading something about it on KAB.

    I want to do the tonearm rubber tube and rewire mod. Have you seen that one? I think I'd want to do that first before replacing the OE output cable.

    Did you have a set of Phono cables in mind that you'd want to use instead?

    Also been wondering whether the Litz headshell wires are worthwhile for a really nice cart. Have any of you thought about these?
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,016
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    msg wrote: »
    Jody, what's my M.O. again? Get phono stuff, sit on it for three years getting ready to get ready to set it up?

    Haha... missed this earlier. Scott, you are very self-aware B)
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • CottageChz
    CottageChz Posts: 366
    edited December 2023
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    msg wrote: »
    Did you tell them about me, who I am, and that I'm in a rush for this information? That ought to light a fire under them.

    I'll make sure to let them know :D

    I see that you own a Technics - I will be putting this on an SL-1200 Mk2. Mine is unmodded, but original RCA was replaced because the old one had a bad connection. I wish they put external RCA connections on all of these instead of having the attached RCA cable, what a bad design.
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    msg wrote: »
    Keiko wrote: »
    Scott, did you ever do the cable mod on your Technics? My table is still stock basically, but removing the hard wired cable and installing an RCA terminal is something I've been wanting to do to mine for a long time now.

    Hey Mike! No, I haven't done any mods to my SL-1210 yet. Yeah, same here my table is all stock, and I agree - I've been interested in installing the RCA terminals mod. However, years back, I talked to Kevin (and/or someone else?) about it, and they told me that the OE Technics cable is actually pretty good? Something about the capacitance? Also, I think there was a run of 1200s that had a screwy cable that had higher capacitance and it affected play. I think they may have recalled/repaired, them, I'm not sure.
    I didn't look into it much further, but I do vaguely recall reading something about it on KAB.

    I want to do the tonearm rubber tube and rewire mod. Have you seen that one? I think I'd want to do that first before replacing the OE output cable.

    Did you have a set of Phono cables in mind that you'd want to use instead?

    Also been wondering whether the Litz headshell wires are worthwhile for a really nice cart. Have any of you thought about these?

    No, I haven't considered any tonearm mods except maybe the fluid damper. I've more or less abandoned doing that because I'm afraid of all the pollutants that could be picked up inside that tray. IIRC, Larry did it for his. From what I understand, the 1210s tonearm is supposed to be improved over the earlier 12xx series, but I've seen the rubber tube/litz mod you're referring to. You know, I haven't tried it, but I've seen some posts where someone used tube dampers on the tonearm. Interesting idea, but again, I never experimented with it and can't remember exactly where I saw this.

    No particular cable I'd like to try although I'm using the AVt2 ICs and AVt2 speaker cable throughout my rig. I can't see upgrading my cables any further because of diminishing returns for my modest system. Sounds good to my ears already, so I'd rather spend my money on records, SACDs and IEMs. Lol!

    For headshell wires my Sumiko HS-12 came with the Litz wiring already. Audio Technica uses these and they are highly recommended.

    https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT6108-Turntable-Cartridge-Headshell/dp/B07BYFZWTL

    DaCapo Audio will save you a few bucks ordering from them.

    https://www.dacapoaudio.com/4608-audio-technica-at6108-headshell-cable-set.html
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