RTi6 & RTi4 Rubber Surrounds

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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    xschop wrote: »
    Jeff Bezos and Oprah will hand deliver once they've closed on all the firesales there.

    Not funny dude. This is a very sensitive subject for us here. I know you probably didn't mean anything personal by this, but please be a bit more perspicacious. Thanks. My thread got shut down and that's OK, I believe it served it's purpose and brought awareness, which is all I wanted. As far as the celebrities and billionaires trying to capitalize on this tragedy, they will reap what they sow. Galatians 6:7-8. Nuff said!

    Malama pono!
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,707
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    No offense, just shedding light on the large scale smash n grab.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    xschop wrote: »
    No offense, just shedding light on the large scale smash n grab.

    That it is and the more people we can make aware the better for the people of Lahaina. The way this whole thing has been handled by State & Federal gov. is a travesty. They all pilau!
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,707
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    I think this last batch of the wintergreen oil I linked to is more potent/concentrated that first batch I got.
    So if you try this, cut the oil to isopropyl 25/75 FYI
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
    edited August 2023
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    I got an email back from John (Jstas) today. He's on vacation with his family right now, but said he'd get back to me on this. I also linked him to this thread, so gonna be patient until I hear what he has to say.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited August 2023
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    For his True Sub Signature, Carver recommends annual conditioning w/mink oil

    https://corebrands-resources.s3.amazonaws.com/products/Sunfire/Discontinued/True-Subwoofer-Signature-Manual.pdf
    Page 4
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
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    I never realized that Carver used leather surrounds.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    F1nut wrote: »
    I never realized that Carver used leather surrounds.

    Lol!

    On a serious note, I have a pair of Yammie NS10Ms that have cloth surrounds and have been in every iteration of 2ch rigs I've owned for over 40yrs now. The white paper cones have yellowed a little bit over the years, but I don't think the sound quality has been affected. Some people hate these speakers while others, like me love them because they tell the truth. They are widely used in studios still today and a lot of the music we listen to were mastered on the NS10Ms.

    I know, I'm just full of useless information. o:)

    q6kpfoq33r0u.jpg


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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
    edited August 2023
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    Just got a solid answer from John. He's going to be responding to this thread also. Good info and what he recommended is very much common sense and inexpensive. Stay tuned. B)

    Thanks John!
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,712
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    OK, so, to address some of the stuff already posted.

    Alcohol, rubbing, isopropyl, denatured or otherwise is OK for cleaning. But, alcohol, like silicone "cleaners" like Armor All, displaces moisture and once the solvent evaporates, it leaves films that are reactive and/or sticky and they will harden and degrade performance of the surround. If you are going to clean with alcohol, use isopropyl because the moisture content of rubbing alcohol will cause discoloration as it can oxidize the surface of the rubber faster which causes faster degradation.

    Do not use any solvents on foam surrounds as they can be damaged by various solvents, especially older surrounds. If your surrounds are that bad and they are foam, refoam them instead.

    Solvents will discolor and damage the smooth finish polymerized cones too, whether it's polypropylene or doped paper or whatever. If you're going to use alcohol to clean, just use it sparingly and be prepared for a tedious effort.

    Butyl rubber, as long as it's kept clean and out of sunlight, should be lasting for decades. Granted that's not always possible depending on the climate where you live and so on.


    OK, so what DO I use then Mr. Smartypants?

    You know what else is made from butyl rubber?

    Weather stripping for outdoor use. Cars, RVs, boats, garage doors, whatever needs to keep weather out of an opening uses butyl rubber.

    It's no different than surrounds.

    To clean them you should use a rubber cleaner that is silicone free (i.e.: NOT Armor All). Something like this one from Griot's Garage can be found in many car parts stores now. If you can't find this one, Meguiar's has a similar product that is equally effective. You use it according to directions with a LINT FREE cloth. It will remove any wax or silicone buildup and will clean the sticky gunk off. You may have to clean it several times depending on how bad it is but if it takes gunked up pollen off the weather stripping on my car, it can handle your pet hair and house funk too.

    https://www.amazon.com/Griots-Garage-11136-Rubber-Cleaner/dp/B003POL47Q?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&th=1

    After that you need to restore and condition the rubber because you've stripped all the oils out of the surface. So you need a conditioner that is solvent free. 'Cause that's, honestly, the problem with stuff like Armor All. It has all the usual protectants but it makes everything slick because of the additives and solvents.

    So you can use a weather stripping condition like this one from 3-in-1:

    https://www.amazon.com/3-ONE-Care-Rubber-Conditioner/dp/B07PKV279Y/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=car+door+seal+conditioner&qid=1693318853&sr=8-4

    But a better option that's a bit more expensive is the stuff from 303 Aerospace...well, 303 now:
    https://www.amazon.com/303-Rubber-Protectant-Conditioner-Weather/dp/B00T44D1R2/ref=asc_df_B00T44D1R2?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539344142926&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138871873625&th=1

    If, though, you want a silicone free conditioner, then get yourself a tube of DuPont Krytox and get ready to massage some surrounds with a Q-tip:
    https://www.amazon.com/Krytox-Grease-Pure-PFPE-PTFE/dp/B00MWLDALQ/ref=asc_df_B00MWLDALQ?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80058307970592&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583657835789357&psc=1

    The conditioners will reverse oxidization caused by wear, UV damage and cleaning. They will also restore the lubricants that keep the rubber soft, flexible and squishy.

    If you are going to use a conditioner without a sealant, like the 3-in-1 stuff then grab yourself a sealant too:
    https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Rubber-Saver-Gasket-Conditioner/dp/B00Z779UW0/ref=asc_df_B00Z779UW0?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539344142758&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138880920376&psc=1

    It will keep the conditioning from drying out real fast and help keep it from getting sticky and collecting funk.

    If this doesn't work then your surrounds are deteriorated too far and you need to replace them.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    Just so I'm clear on this, 303 is the best option for conditioning the rubber and you recommend applying the Dupont Rubber Saver afterwards to seal it John?
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,712
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    303 is a conditioner and a sealer. If you use that you only need that.

    The DuPont Rubber Saver is if you use just a conditioner that doesn't have sealant/protective properties like the 3-in-1 product or the DuPont Krytox. But that Krytox stuff is crazy slick and hydrophobic so a sealant might not stick to it but the Krytox stuff repels moisture and that's what the sealant is for so it's probably a moot point.

    In all honesty, the 303 stuff doesn't need a whole lot so that 3.4 ounce bottle will go a long way. Especially if you clean them with the rubber cleaner first.

    I'd clean with a rubber cleaner, a soft, natural hair brush and use the 303 product per instructions for my stuff.

    Brushes like these:
    https://www.amazon.com/Proper-Detailing-Co-Interior-Exterior/dp/B081Y8MXW7/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=41NV06BIY8T&keywords=soft+natural+hair+detail+brush&qid=1693325442&sprefix=soft+natural+hair+detail+brush,aps,111&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

    When I worked at Lockheed, the hardware techs in the production test center all had 303 products in their tool boxes for conditioning the rubber seals and gaskets on the sea-based radar equipment.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    OK, think I got it. Griots to clean followed by the 303 to condition and seal?

    Been up again all night being the insomniac that I am. Had to reread your instructions a couple times to get it to register.
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,712
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    Keiko wrote: »
    OK, think I got it. Griots to clean followed by the 303 to condition and seal?

    Yes.

    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,604
    edited August 2023
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    @Keiko, let me know if you have any issues getting these products delivered to Hawaii from Amazon and we will work something out. I’ll be ordering at least the 303, myself, sometime in the not-too-distant future.

    If there is something like this that is deemed “safe” for use on the vintage surrounds, and mine already being decades old, though kept clean and not exposed to UV during that time, I would like to revitalize and recondition them.

    Thanks, @Jstas, for the thorough recommendations on what to use.

    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    bcwsrt wrote: »
    @Keiko, let me know if you have any issues getting these products delivered to Hawaii from Amazon and we will work something out. I’ll be ordering at least the 303, myself, sometime in the not-too-distant future.

    If there is something like this that is deemed “safe” for use on the vintage surrounds, and mine already being decades old, though kept clean and not exposed to UV during that time, I would like to revitalize and recondition them.

    Thanks, @Jstas, for the thorough recommendations on what to use.

    Thanks Brian. I should be able to track them down thru local retailers. Good info for sure.
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  • ChrisD06
    ChrisD06 Posts: 886
    edited August 2023
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    6 days late but I'd like to chime in that I cleaned my CSi3 (before I sold it and got the CS400i + RT3000p) with 99% isopropyl alcohol on the drivers and I noticed strange streaking on the surround once the IPA dried up.

    I personally use warm water on a microfiber cloth (damp, not soaked) and wipe in a circular motion to remove dirt/oxidation. Butyl rubber isn't harmed by simply water. It definitely doesn't clean it thoroughly but I'm extremely careful and don't like taking risks, so I don't use anything that I don't know 100% for sure won't damage the butyl rubber.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,587
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    Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.
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  • ChrisD06
    ChrisD06 Posts: 886
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    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

    I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,650
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    ChrisD06 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

    I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

    Who doesn't have Windex? Asking for a friend 🤣
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  • ChrisD06
    ChrisD06 Posts: 886
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    ken brydson wrote: »
    ChrisD06 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

    I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

    Who doesn't have Windex? Asking for a friend 🤣

    Well, I'm 17 so I'm unfortunately I don't go out and buy the groceries (until I get my license) and my mom is convinced Windex will give me cancer and a slew of other health issues as she 'read an article' from a 'licensed doctor' on Facebook.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,587
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    My god man don't snort it!

    Bu ttbook it must be real!!
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  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,604
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    When do they let you have your license up there, FFS?!

    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
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  • Keiko
    Keiko Posts: 764
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    ken brydson wrote: »
    ChrisD06 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

    I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

    Who doesn't have Windex? Asking for a friend 🤣

    Same dude that doesn't have any black paint.
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  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,604
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    Supposed to be here tomorrow. I'll post up after I try it on a driver, or two ...

    utmuy3v358yv.png

    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,572
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    Keiko wrote: »
    ken brydson wrote: »
    ChrisD06 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

    I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

    Who doesn't have Windex? Asking for a friend 🤣

    Same dude that doesn't have any black paint.

    you beat me to saying that! lol
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,604
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    Almost impossible to capture a good “before” and “after” with an iPhone camera in the lighting I have in the basement, but I tried. I think you can see the slightly darker/blacker color and sheen that the 303 product left behind in the second pic. Looks less “dried out,” especially in person. Left nothing oily behind whatsoever, though, like an Armor All-type product would have.

    I like it.

    Will report back on any audible benefits later tonight. 😝

    qzsdyg9kys2m.jpeg
    yaqwpu0p6s4k.jpeg
    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
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  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,604
    edited September 2023
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    Also, I did not use the built-in applicator as it’s just too large for good control on the surrounds on my MWs. It has one of those press and flow deals on it, so I just put a microfiber on the end of the applicator and pressed it down with my finger until I felt the microfiber getting damp and then put it on the surrounds with the microfiber wrapped around my index finger. Worked great and a little goes a long way.

    Oh, and @msg, there are no other uses besides rubber seals.

    8kq8fsdly3wz.jpeg
    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,707
    edited September 2023
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    You need to add some Nystatin to those dustcaps while you're at it.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • toolbelt
    toolbelt Posts: 124
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    In the auto world, dielectric grease works great on rubber seals. Might be a little too thick to work onto delicate speaker surrounds though.
    Polk RTIA3 Fronts
    Polk CSIA4 Center
    Polk PSW Sub
    Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR
    And a friendly Labrador Retriever
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