RTi6 & RTi4 Rubber Surrounds

Keiko

xschop wrote: »

Jeff Bezos and Oprah will hand deliver once they've closed on all the firesales there.

Not funny dude. This is a very sensitive subject for us here. I know you probably didn't mean anything personal by this, but please be a bit more perspicacious. Thanks. My thread got shut down and that's OK, I believe it served it's purpose and brought awareness, which is all I wanted. As far as the celebrities and billionaires trying to capitalize on this tragedy, they will reap what they sow. Galatians 6:7-8. Nuff said!

Malama pono!

xschop

No offense, just shedding light on the large scale smash n grab.

Keiko

xschop wrote: »

No offense, just shedding light on the large scale smash n grab.

That it is and the more people we can make aware the better for the people of Lahaina. The way this whole thing has been handled by State & Federal gov. is a travesty. They all pilau!

xschop

I think this last batch of the wintergreen oil I linked to is more potent/concentrated that first batch I got.
So if you try this, cut the oil to isopropyl 25/75 FYI

Keiko

I got an email back from John (Jstas) today. He's on vacation with his family right now, but said he'd get back to me on this. I also linked him to this thread, so gonna be patient until I hear what he has to say.

gp4jesus

For his True Sub Signature, Carver recommends annual conditioning w/mink oil

https://corebrands-resources.s3.amazonaws.com/products/Sunfire/Discontinued/True-Subwoofer-Signature-Manual.pdf
Page 4

F1nut

I never realized that Carver used leather surrounds.

Keiko

F1nut wrote: »

I never realized that Carver used leather surrounds.

Lol!

On a serious note, I have a pair of Yammie NS10Ms that have cloth surrounds and have been in every iteration of 2ch rigs I've owned for over 40yrs now. The white paper cones have yellowed a little bit over the years, but I don't think the sound quality has been affected. Some people hate these speakers while others, like me love them because they tell the truth. They are widely used in studios still today and a lot of the music we listen to were mastered on the NS10Ms.

I know, I'm just full of useless information.

Keiko

Just got a solid answer from John. He's going to be responding to this thread also. Good info and what he recommended is very much common sense and inexpensive. Stay tuned.

Thanks John!

Jstas

OK, so, to address some of the stuff already posted.

Alcohol, rubbing, isopropyl, denatured or otherwise is OK for cleaning. But, alcohol, like silicone "cleaners" like Armor All, displaces moisture and once the solvent evaporates, it leaves films that are reactive and/or sticky and they will harden and degrade performance of the surround. If you are going to clean with alcohol, use isopropyl because the moisture content of rubbing alcohol will cause discoloration as it can oxidize the surface of the rubber faster which causes faster degradation.

Do not use any solvents on foam surrounds as they can be damaged by various solvents, especially older surrounds. If your surrounds are that bad and they are foam, refoam them instead.

Solvents will discolor and damage the smooth finish polymerized cones too, whether it's polypropylene or doped paper or whatever. If you're going to use alcohol to clean, just use it sparingly and be prepared for a tedious effort.

Butyl rubber, as long as it's kept clean and out of sunlight, should be lasting for decades. Granted that's not always possible depending on the climate where you live and so on.


OK, so what DO I use then Mr. Smartypants?

You know what else is made from butyl rubber?

Weather stripping for outdoor use. Cars, RVs, boats, garage doors, whatever needs to keep weather out of an opening uses butyl rubber.

It's no different than surrounds.

To clean them you should use a rubber cleaner that is silicone free (i.e.: NOT Armor All). Something like this one from Griot's Garage can be found in many car parts stores now. If you can't find this one, Meguiar's has a similar product that is equally effective. You use it according to directions with a LINT FREE cloth. It will remove any wax or silicone buildup and will clean the sticky gunk off. You may have to clean it several times depending on how bad it is but if it takes gunked up pollen off the weather stripping on my car, it can handle your pet hair and house funk too.

https://www.amazon.com/Griots-Garage-11136-Rubber-Cleaner/dp/B003POL47Q?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&th=1

After that you need to restore and condition the rubber because you've stripped all the oils out of the surface. So you need a conditioner that is solvent free. 'Cause that's, honestly, the problem with stuff like Armor All. It has all the usual protectants but it makes everything slick because of the additives and solvents.

So you can use a weather stripping condition like this one from 3-in-1:

https://www.amazon.com/3-ONE-Care-Rubber-Conditioner/dp/B07PKV279Y/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=car+door+seal+conditioner&qid=1693318853&sr=8-4

But a better option that's a bit more expensive is the stuff from 303 Aerospace...well, 303 now:
https://www.amazon.com/303-Rubber-Protectant-Conditioner-Weather/dp/B00T44D1R2/ref=asc_df_B00T44D1R2?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539344142926&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138871873625&th=1

If, though, you want a silicone free conditioner, then get yourself a tube of DuPont Krytox and get ready to massage some surrounds with a Q-tip:
https://www.amazon.com/Krytox-Grease-Pure-PFPE-PTFE/dp/B00MWLDALQ/ref=asc_df_B00MWLDALQ?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80058307970592&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583657835789357&psc=1

The conditioners will reverse oxidization caused by wear, UV damage and cleaning. They will also restore the lubricants that keep the rubber soft, flexible and squishy.

If you are going to use a conditioner without a sealant, like the 3-in-1 stuff then grab yourself a sealant too:
https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Rubber-Saver-Gasket-Conditioner/dp/B00Z779UW0/ref=asc_df_B00Z779UW0?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539344142758&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138880920376&psc=1

It will keep the conditioning from drying out real fast and help keep it from getting sticky and collecting funk.

If this doesn't work then your surrounds are deteriorated too far and you need to replace them.

Keiko

Just so I'm clear on this, 303 is the best option for conditioning the rubber and you recommend applying the Dupont Rubber Saver afterwards to seal it John?

Jstas

303 is a conditioner and a sealer. If you use that you only need that.

The DuPont Rubber Saver is if you use just a conditioner that doesn't have sealant/protective properties like the 3-in-1 product or the DuPont Krytox. But that Krytox stuff is crazy slick and hydrophobic so a sealant might not stick to it but the Krytox stuff repels moisture and that's what the sealant is for so it's probably a moot point.

In all honesty, the 303 stuff doesn't need a whole lot so that 3.4 ounce bottle will go a long way. Especially if you clean them with the rubber cleaner first.

I'd clean with a rubber cleaner, a soft, natural hair brush and use the 303 product per instructions for my stuff.

Brushes like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Proper-Detailing-Co-Interior-Exterior/dp/B081Y8MXW7/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=41NV06BIY8T&keywords=soft+natural+hair+detail+brush&qid=1693325442&sprefix=soft+natural+hair+detail+brush,aps,111&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

When I worked at Lockheed, the hardware techs in the production test center all had 303 products in their tool boxes for conditioning the rubber seals and gaskets on the sea-based radar equipment.

Keiko

OK, think I got it. Griots to clean followed by the 303 to condition and seal?

Been up again all night being the insomniac that I am. Had to reread your instructions a couple times to get it to register.

Jstas

Keiko wrote: »

OK, think I got it. Griots to clean followed by the 303 to condition and seal?

Yes.

bcwsrt

@Keiko, let me know if you have any issues getting these products delivered to Hawaii from Amazon and we will work something out. I’ll be ordering at least the 303, myself, sometime in the not-too-distant future.

If there is something like this that is deemed “safe” for use on the vintage surrounds, and mine already being decades old, though kept clean and not exposed to UV during that time, I would like to revitalize and recondition them.

Thanks, @Jstas, for the thorough recommendations on what to use.

Keiko

bcwsrt wrote: »

@Keiko, let me know if you have any issues getting these products delivered to Hawaii from Amazon and we will work something out. I’ll be ordering at least the 303, myself, sometime in the not-too-distant future.

If there is something like this that is deemed “safe” for use on the vintage surrounds, and mine already being decades old, though kept clean and not exposed to UV during that time, I would like to revitalize and recondition them.

Thanks, @Jstas, for the thorough recommendations on what to use.

Thanks Brian. I should be able to track them down thru local retailers. Good info for sure.

ChrisD06

6 days late but I'd like to chime in that I cleaned my CSi3 (before I sold it and got the CS400i + RT3000p) with 99% isopropyl alcohol on the drivers and I noticed strange streaking on the surround once the IPA dried up.

I personally use warm water on a microfiber cloth (damp, not soaked) and wipe in a circular motion to remove dirt/oxidation. Butyl rubber isn't harmed by simply water. It definitely doesn't clean it thoroughly but I'm extremely careful and don't like taking risks, so I don't use anything that I don't know 100% for sure won't damage the butyl rubber.

pitdogg2

Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

ChrisD06

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

ken brydson

ChrisD06 wrote: »

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

Who doesn't have Windex? Asking for a friend 🤣

ChrisD06

ken brydson wrote: »

ChrisD06 wrote: »

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

Who doesn't have Windex? Asking for a friend 🤣

Well, I'm 17 so I'm unfortunately I don't go out and buy the groceries (until I get my license) and my mom is convinced Windex will give me cancer and a slew of other health issues as she 'read an article' from a 'licensed doctor' on Facebook.

pitdogg2

My god man don't snort it!

Bu ttbook it must be real!!

bcwsrt

When do they let you have your license up there, FFS?!

Keiko

ken brydson wrote: »

ChrisD06 wrote: »

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

Who doesn't have Windex? Asking for a friend 🤣

Same dude that doesn't have any black paint.

bcwsrt

Supposed to be here tomorrow. I'll post up after I try it on a driver, or two ...

halo71

Keiko wrote: »

ken brydson wrote: »

ChrisD06 wrote: »

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Plain ol'regular Windex we've used for years with no problems.

I recall being recommended this. I simply don't have any in my house but if I ever do then I guess I'll have to give it a go.

Who doesn't have Windex? Asking for a friend 🤣

Same dude that doesn't have any black paint.

you beat me to saying that! lol

bcwsrt

Almost impossible to capture a good “before” and “after” with an iPhone camera in the lighting I have in the basement, but I tried. I think you can see the slightly darker/blacker color and sheen that the 303 product left behind in the second pic. Looks less “dried out,” especially in person. Left nothing oily behind whatsoever, though, like an Armor All-type product would have.

I like it.

Will report back on any audible benefits later tonight. 😝

bcwsrt

Also, I did not use the built-in applicator as it’s just too large for good control on the surrounds on my MWs. It has one of those press and flow deals on it, so I just put a microfiber on the end of the applicator and pressed it down with my finger until I felt the microfiber getting damp and then put it on the surrounds with the microfiber wrapped around my index finger. Worked great and a little goes a long way.

Oh, and @msg, there are no other uses besides rubber seals.

xschop

You need to add some Nystatin to those dustcaps while you're at it.

toolbelt

In the auto world, dielectric grease works great on rubber seals. Might be a little too thick to work onto delicate speaker surrounds though.