Looking to Upgrade Subs

I have been running a single REL T5 in a 16ish by 20ish room for awhile now. As this hobby seems to lead down the rabbit whole, here are a couple of thoughts....actually 3:
1. Buy a 2nd T5 from TMR which is a 6 on the cosmetic side but this is the value choice.
2. There is a REL R 218 in Athens which looks to be cherry and the guy will drive up to 100 miles.
3. There is a guy in KS with a nice pair of T5/i subs with boxes and upgraded cables. I consider this the riskiest route due the highest cost and I can picture a Ground driver tossing these into the back of a trailer.
Sooooo.....what ya'll think and I am open to a sealed sub for 2 channel if someone has one sitting around. My speakers are Polk L200s which on my lead shot/ sand filled stands seem to be able to dig pretty deep as it is.

Comments

  • What are the issues with the current sub? Do you have nulls in the sweet spot or various parts of the room and you want to even out the response?
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,949
    What are the issues with the current sub? Do you have nulls in the sweet spot or various parts of the room and you want to even out the response?
    Honesty, I have no idea. I basically moved it around the room over the years and found it sounds best in the middle of the room about 2 feet in front of the rig. Overall Im looking for a more immersive sounds and have read that 2 subs for 2 channel are the ticket. Here is the current setup:
    q9b51ckb4jb1.jpeg


  • Do you have spikes that would penetrate that carpet to the floor? Seems like that plate between the sub and carpet gives you the opposite of coupling. Spikes should tighten the bass.

    I want to experiment with a 2 channel sub setup myself some day, if I get around to repairing my 2nd Martin Logan Dynamo. I have no measurements of my nulls either, just by ear that the bass is accentuated in the corners of the room. Thinking of adding bass traps there.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,949
    Never thought of the spikes and taking out the tile lol. Also the R 218 has taller feet to elevate it off the floor more than than T5, so Ill ask the seller if he has the spikes. Good stuff...
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,135
    edited February 2022
    Yeah don't get me wrong, isolation can be better than spikes but the devil's in the details and done wrong it won't even come close. I've learned a lot about isolation and I'd be happy to share with anyone who is receptive/interested.

    You can get Grade 8 bolts from a hardware store and if you have a dremel cutoff wheel or the like, and a bench grinder and a drill, you can cut the heads off, chuck the bolt into the drill and grind whatever angle point you desire to penetrate that carpet/padding down to the floor. Might even be desireable to add some mass loading to the top of the sub. they have 12" x 12" concrete blocks at Home Depot etc., and they could be spackled and sanded and painted white to match your sub. Just some thoughts for ya.

    PS: I see the manufacturer claims that those 4 corner cubes/feet are a performance calibrated distance from the floor and it is downward firing, so you might want to keep the tile/plate underneath and spike that to the floor through the carpeting. Maybe even make the tile larger. I don't know what effect the carpeting will have on reflection of the bass wavelengths. Instead of a tile/plate could even use a concrete block spiked to floor.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    Velodyne DD+
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,346
    REL recommends dual subwoofers sized appropriately for the listening space for two channel use.

    If it's true that placing the T5 closer to the corner with the L200 throws off the balance of the system that's a good reason to add a second near the other L200 to take advantage of room gain with two subwoofers. There's not much room gain going on where it's placed now.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited February 2022
    Go for a second T5 or two 10" subs of your liking.

    As far as spiking vs. isolation, you really have to find out what works in your space. I have a little old 1st Gen HSU VTF-2 (ported 10") I use for theater. If I move it closer to the corner of the room and the sub is anchored to the floor, that little bugger with only 150 watt has slam and will vibrate the floor! Great for home theater and some dynamic music.... My Bigger sub takes over the lower stuff. However, this might not work for me if the room was 100% music.

    So, rather it be spiking or serious isolations (thick stone slab, thick butcherblock, SubSude, etc.) one has to find what what works for what you are after.

    Maybe if you have a suspended floor and you spike, maybe the sub causes resonance that you don't like?

    Maybe isolation is the path?

    Maybe a second well integrated sub solves many different problems?
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,135
    edited February 2022
    ^^ I agree with a LOT of what you just said. I think of serious isolation as springs (best) and viscoelastomeric materials and roller bearings. Coupling to solid mass (seismic mass) I think of as changing the resonant frequency and also reducing amplitudes of any micro movements because of inertia, but it isn't truly isolation because vibrational energy (molecular level) will still transmit through it.

    Having a wooden joist type suspended floor definitely makes Isolation the way to go in my opinion, especially in an older house like mine :s
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,949
    Well I have been pondering all this bassed (pun intended) on my room. The floor is a cement slab with carpet which is never going anywhere. The current T5 doesn't appear to have holes for spikes and perhaps a front firing model is the way to go with a spike-able sub or two. Rather than option 3 above, that money would be better, and safer, spent on a new pair of SVS SB1000s. Decisions, decisions....
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    Don't forget about Rythmik.
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,949
    Well this is cool as heck from the SVS website:
    h604cattkoab.jpeg
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
    I love that era of MF gear. Nice digital front end too.
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,949
    jbreezy5 wrote: »
    I love that era of MF gear. Nice digital front end too.

    Thanks I recently sold off all the vinyl gear to simplify things....yet now I am looking to add more gear in a 2nd sub lol.
  • I would invest in a Umik-1 and REW for best sub placement.


  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,949
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Don't forget about Rythmik.
    So waz up with the L12 RCA connections only-could one assume a RCA cable can be run straight from a pre output?

  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,042
    I got a Velodyne sitting here in a box still because I have immediate neighbors again & I don't want to be that guy. Probably more than you are wanting to spend, just throwing it out there.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,949
    Nightfall wrote: »
    I got a Velodyne sitting here in a box still because I have immediate neighbors again & I don't want to be that guy. Probably more than you are wanting to spend, just throwing it out there.

    Send me some details please...and Ill start looking for spare change under the couch cushions....or spare dollar bills.

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Don't forget about Rythmik.
    So waz up with the L12 RCA connections only-could one assume a RCA cable can be run straight from a pre output?

    Yeah you just hook it up to the variable secondary pre-out.
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    Well this is cool as heck from the SVS website:
    h604cattkoab.jpeg

    I picked up a SB1000 Pro a few weeks ago and just hooked it up tonight (been working on some home projects), so I can’t give a definitive opinion on it yet.

    I only put it into my LR surround system, which is small, but YPAO on my Yamaha receiver dialed it in nicely. I briefly watched a fight scene on Mortal Kombat, the one with scorpion/sub-zero as main characters.

    So far I would describe the bass derived from the SVS as “generous”. This would easily fill small/mid-size rooms with bass.

    For frame of reference, I previously had moved my REL HT1003 into this system to support my KEF Q300s, and it sounded ok. I liked this much better in my BR 2-channel system, for its tight, fast, punchy bass that kept time very well with music, with power to spare. I did not enjoy this very much in the LR surround system; it just didn’t seem like it had the gusto I wanted for movies (maybe I didn’t get the calibration right, and should have re-run it). I’ll leave room for that possibility, as I’ve found sometimes repeated attempts may yield better results.

    However, the SVS SB-1000 Pro on first listen, post-calibration, produced noticeably lower bass with more power, that could be felt, as well as, heard.

    That’s the most I can say since it is otherwise not broken in yet. I haven’t tried it in my 2-channel BR system yet. That will be awhile since I’m happy with the REL there.

    If you try a pair of SB-1000s go direct through SVS (see their website for their generous return policy).

    Good luck!

    [Just saw you were discussing a Velodyne with @Nightfall; let us know what you end up doing]
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,949
    Well I just scored a REL T5i from the Bay to pair with the current T5. Will be interested in the differences between the 2 and we'll see how long it takes my OCD to kick in and I purchase a matching T5i. Stay tuned!
    I did try a larger 18 x 18 tile under the T5 for kicks and it sounded awful. Perhaps setting these both directly on carpet is as good as it will get.
  • sgmsmg
    sgmsmg Posts: 542
    Maybe instead of the tile get a denser/heaver wood slab (butcher block?) and mount spikes to the bottom to put under the subs.
    2 Channel
    Pre:Bryston BP173
    Amp:Bryston 14B3
    Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
    Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
    Display: Sony XBR65Z9F

    Home Theater
    Pre: Anthem AVM90/JBL SDP-55
    Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
    Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
    Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
    Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
    Display: Sony XBR85Z9G
  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 4,981
    Auralic Sub Dude for isolation. Makes a world of difference.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    Well I just scored a REL T5i from the Bay to pair with the current T5. Will be interested in the differences between the 2 and we'll see how long it takes my OCD to kick in and I purchase a matching T5i. Stay tuned!
    I did try a larger 18 x 18 tile under the T5 for kicks and it sounded awful. Perhaps setting these both directly on carpet is as good as it will get.

    Spike them and make sure the spikes will pierce through the carpet.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk