Looking to Upgrade Subs

kevhed72

I have been running a single REL T5 in a 16ish by 20ish room for awhile now. As this hobby seems to lead down the rabbit whole, here are a couple of thoughts....actually 3:
1. Buy a 2nd T5 from TMR which is a 6 on the cosmetic side but this is the value choice.
2. There is a REL R 218 in Athens which looks to be cherry and the guy will drive up to 100 miles.
3. There is a guy in KS with a nice pair of T5/i subs with boxes and upgraded cables. I consider this the riskiest route due the highest cost and I can picture a Ground driver tossing these into the back of a trailer.
Sooooo.....what ya'll think and I am open to a sealed sub for 2 channel if someone has one sitting around. My speakers are Polk L200s which on my lead shot/ sand filled stands seem to be able to dig pretty deep as it is.

Gardenstater

What are the issues with the current sub? Do you have nulls in the sweet spot or various parts of the room and you want to even out the response?

kevhed72

Gardenstater wrote: »

What are the issues with the current sub? Do you have nulls in the sweet spot or various parts of the room and you want to even out the response?

Honesty, I have no idea. I basically moved it around the room over the years and found it sounds best in the middle of the room about 2 feet in front of the rig. Overall Im looking for a more immersive sounds and have read that 2 subs for 2 channel are the ticket. Here is the current setup:

Gardenstater

Do you have spikes that would penetrate that carpet to the floor? Seems like that plate between the sub and carpet gives you the opposite of coupling. Spikes should tighten the bass.

I want to experiment with a 2 channel sub setup myself some day, if I get around to repairing my 2nd Martin Logan Dynamo. I have no measurements of my nulls either, just by ear that the bass is accentuated in the corners of the room. Thinking of adding bass traps there.

kevhed72

Never thought of the spikes and taking out the tile lol. Also the R 218 has taller feet to elevate it off the floor more than than T5, so Ill ask the seller if he has the spikes. Good stuff...

Gardenstater

Yeah don't get me wrong, isolation can be better than spikes but the devil's in the details and done wrong it won't even come close. I've learned a lot about isolation and I'd be happy to share with anyone who is receptive/interested.

You can get Grade 8 bolts from a hardware store and if you have a dremel cutoff wheel or the like, and a bench grinder and a drill, you can cut the heads off, chuck the bolt into the drill and grind whatever angle point you desire to penetrate that carpet/padding down to the floor. Might even be desireable to add some mass loading to the top of the sub. they have 12" x 12" concrete blocks at Home Depot etc., and they could be spackled and sanded and painted white to match your sub. Just some thoughts for ya.

PS: I see the manufacturer claims that those 4 corner cubes/feet are a performance calibrated distance from the floor and it is downward firing, so you might want to keep the tile/plate underneath and spike that to the floor through the carpeting. Maybe even make the tile larger. I don't know what effect the carpeting will have on reflection of the bass wavelengths. Instead of a tile/plate could even use a concrete block spiked to floor.

F1nut

Velodyne DD+

Emlyn

REL recommends dual subwoofers sized appropriately for the listening space for two channel use.

If it's true that placing the T5 closer to the corner with the L200 throws off the balance of the system that's a good reason to add a second near the other L200 to take advantage of room gain with two subwoofers. There's not much room gain going on where it's placed now.

WLDock

Go for a second T5 or two 10" subs of your liking.

As far as spiking vs. isolation, you really have to find out what works in your space. I have a little old 1st Gen HSU VTF-2 (ported 10") I use for theater. If I move it closer to the corner of the room and the sub is anchored to the floor, that little bugger with only 150 watt has slam and will vibrate the floor! Great for home theater and some dynamic music.... My Bigger sub takes over the lower stuff. However, this might not work for me if the room was 100% music.

So, rather it be spiking or serious isolations (thick stone slab, thick butcherblock, SubSude, etc.) one has to find what what works for what you are after.

Maybe if you have a suspended floor and you spike, maybe the sub causes resonance that you don't like?

Maybe isolation is the path?

Maybe a second well integrated sub solves many different problems?

Gardenstater

^^ I agree with a LOT of what you just said. I think of serious isolation as springs (best) and viscoelastomeric materials and roller bearings. Coupling to solid mass (seismic mass) I think of as changing the resonant frequency and also reducing amplitudes of any micro movements because of inertia, but it isn't truly isolation because vibrational energy (molecular level) will still transmit through it.

Having a wooden joist type suspended floor definitely makes Isolation the way to go in my opinion, especially in an older house like mine

kevhed72

Well I have been pondering all this bassed (pun intended) on my room. The floor is a cement slab with carpet which is never going anywhere. The current T5 doesn't appear to have holes for spikes and perhaps a front firing model is the way to go with a spike-able sub or two. Rather than option 3 above, that money would be better, and safer, spent on a new pair of SVS SB1000s. Decisions, decisions....

Clipdat

Don't forget about Rythmik.

kevhed72

Well this is cool as heck from the SVS website:

jbreezy5

I love that era of MF gear. Nice digital front end too.

kevhed72

jbreezy5 wrote: »

I love that era of MF gear. Nice digital front end too.

Thanks I recently sold off all the vinyl gear to simplify things....yet now I am looking to add more gear in a 2nd sub lol.

vader540is

I would invest in a Umik-1 and REW for best sub placement.

kevhed72

Clipdat wrote: »

Don't forget about Rythmik.

So waz up with the L12 RCA connections only-could one assume a RCA cable can be run straight from a pre output?

Nightfall

I got a Velodyne sitting here in a box still because I have immediate neighbors again & I don't want to be that guy. Probably more than you are wanting to spend, just throwing it out there.

kevhed72

Nightfall wrote: »

I got a Velodyne sitting here in a box still because I have immediate neighbors again & I don't want to be that guy. Probably more than you are wanting to spend, just throwing it out there.

Send me some details please...and Ill start looking for spare change under the couch cushions....or spare dollar bills.

Clipdat

kevhed72 wrote: »

Clipdat wrote: »

Don't forget about Rythmik.

So waz up with the L12 RCA connections only-could one assume a RCA cable can be run straight from a pre output?

Yeah you just hook it up to the variable secondary pre-out.

jbreezy5

kevhed72 wrote: »

Well this is cool as heck from the SVS website:

I picked up a SB1000 Pro a few weeks ago and just hooked it up tonight (been working on some home projects), so I can’t give a definitive opinion on it yet.

I only put it into my LR surround system, which is small, but YPAO on my Yamaha receiver dialed it in nicely. I briefly watched a fight scene on Mortal Kombat, the one with scorpion/sub-zero as main characters.

So far I would describe the bass derived from the SVS as “generous”. This would easily fill small/mid-size rooms with bass.

For frame of reference, I previously had moved my REL HT1003 into this system to support my KEF Q300s, and it sounded ok. I liked this much better in my BR 2-channel system, for its tight, fast, punchy bass that kept time very well with music, with power to spare. I did not enjoy this very much in the LR surround system; it just didn’t seem like it had the gusto I wanted for movies (maybe I didn’t get the calibration right, and should have re-run it). I’ll leave room for that possibility, as I’ve found sometimes repeated attempts may yield better results.

However, the SVS SB-1000 Pro on first listen, post-calibration, produced noticeably lower bass with more power, that could be felt, as well as, heard.

That’s the most I can say since it is otherwise not broken in yet. I haven’t tried it in my 2-channel BR system yet. That will be awhile since I’m happy with the REL there.

If you try a pair of SB-1000s go direct through SVS (see their website for their generous return policy).

Good luck!

[Just saw you were discussing a Velodyne with @Nightfall; let us know what you end up doing]

kevhed72

Well I just scored a REL T5i from the Bay to pair with the current T5. Will be interested in the differences between the 2 and we'll see how long it takes my OCD to kick in and I purchase a matching T5i. Stay tuned!
I did try a larger 18 x 18 tile under the T5 for kicks and it sounded awful. Perhaps setting these both directly on carpet is as good as it will get.

sgmsmg

Maybe instead of the tile get a denser/heaver wood slab (butcher block?) and mount spikes to the bottom to put under the subs.

pearsall001

Auralic Sub Dude for isolation. Makes a world of difference.

F1nut

kevhed72 wrote: »

Well I just scored a REL T5i from the Bay to pair with the current T5. Will be interested in the differences between the 2 and we'll see how long it takes my OCD to kick in and I purchase a matching T5i. Stay tuned!
I did try a larger 18 x 18 tile under the T5 for kicks and it sounded awful. Perhaps setting these both directly on carpet is as good as it will get.

Spike them and make sure the spikes will pierce through the carpet.