Anti diffraction rings (for tweeters)

124

Comments

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 9,820
    Trey, you could try making a mini starburst/zig-zag pattern like Wilson does and see how that affects the sound.

    _DSF4860__91682.1584375022.jpg?c=2

    http://parts.wilsonaudio.com/duette-1-2-tweeter-diffraction-pad/
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    I thought about it, then I thought about lawsuits hahahah

    Thanks for the write up @JayCee!
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,237
    edited March 13
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Trey, you could try making a mini starburst/zig-zag pattern like Wilson does and see how that affects the sound.

    Interesting you brought this up. Watched Darko's review of the TuneTot a few days ago and the thought crossed my mind. Also found the mid driver interesting. Has a "turbine" design similar to the new Legend's, but less pronounced.

    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    Nah they use the scanspeak revelator which has grooves cut into the woofer
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,237
    VR3 wrote: »
    I thought about it

    Doesn't mean you can't "experiment" in-house. ;)
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 9,820
    I really wish I had a large listening space like Darko. Sigh.
  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    Worked out the issue with Velcro not sticking: I was attempting to use both the hook pad and the loop pad instead of hook only. Pads installed, review to come in the next day or so.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,237
    edited March 13
    Glad it worked out. In my case, when I used some scrap Velcro and before the dots, I couldn't get the hook to grab the felt. With the dots, I was able to get the adhesive to mate. Will try just the hooks, again, when the new felt arrives. Look forward to reading your conclusion with the 2.3's.
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    That's very odd, the picture frame hook tabs work great
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,237
    edited March 13
    I didn't use those. It was a heavy-duty version with much wider hooks. I didn't remember I had the picture frame ones until you posted them.
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 1,993
    I got these from Ollie's, 9 pairs for $0.59 maybe a year or two ago. Why didn't I buy more of them? Anyway, I like the strength of the adhesive and the 3/4" square shape and the hooks latch on just fine.

    usnj1zh1nkn5.jpg


    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 1,993
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Trey, you could try making a mini starburst/zig-zag pattern like Wilson does and see how that affects the sound.

    _DSF4860__91682.1584375022.jpg?c=2

    http://parts.wilsonaudio.com/duette-1-2-tweeter-diffraction-pad/

    I think that is just a gimmick. When looking at 2" thick Acoustical Foam Squares, I found out that the ones with the sawtooth or pyramidal textured surfaces do not have as good of an NRC rating as do the solid 2" ones.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    The only* thing that crossed my mind about making the triangles/star pattern would be to reduce any type of "loading" that may happen from having a circle/oval. The pads though are absorbing versus reinforcing so I dont see why that would be a real concern?

    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,237
    After touring Polk's skunk works and seeing the advanced testing, etc. they do with driver tech, I'd assume Wilson would be state-of-the-art and more inclined to believe the design is a combination of parameters within the overall design of the speaker. OTOH, marketing is, well, marketing and often the art of illusion?
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    It is hard to say, their earlier designs were simple punched out squared slightly larger than the tweeter, similar to what we did here.
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    edited March 13
    ..
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    Can even make it where it will fit within grills

    ucpl2dm85rb4.jpg
    vfrpsqs71rwy.jpg
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 1,993
    edited March 14
    Feel free to laugh but I am experimenting with rounded cabinet edges. These are gift wrap inner rolls cut in half and slit down their lengths. The paper seems to be wax coated so I hit it all over with some medium grit sandpaper followed by a sticky tape type clothes lint roller and then a single piece of scotch tape on the side of the speaker is sufficient to hold it in place. Too soon to say a lot but my initial impression is the speakers just disappeared a little bit more and imaging got better. Listening to Patricia Barber "A Distortion of Love" in hi rez

    Edit - Now listening to David Gilmour "Live At Pompeii".....enough was enough. :D Where are my speakers? I lost them.

    in2hc862io5l.jpg
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    Kind of looks cool, grab some dowels and cut them in half! Attach to the sides!
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,237
    @JayCee Dire Straits "Critical Private Investigations".......WOW! Super airy and deep deep soundstage. Unfortunately I never heard it before, but still!
    The more detailed your system becomes....you'll hear Knopfler breathing @ 4:36 w/a realism that's either "just there" or much more subtle and well defined. The sound effects (cat, glass breaking, etc) and xylophone(?) are cool and, when resolved, are a part of the deepness you describe. Makes you think they're off in the distance and add to the imagery of the PI story. On a system with a really "black" background, the music builds out of nowhere. From the same album, "Telegraph Road" is another great track.
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 2,020
    Does getting rid of the frame pegs help? I modded mine and installed flat neodymium magnets in the baffle and the grills. Took a while to do it, and don't remember what the difference in sound was lol. They hold the grills very solid though and easy on/off.
  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 7,684
    1d40stxf673d.jpg
    eje0hih37l40.jpg
    7m8ukcei3cdc.jpg
    oz7m2kwemosm.jpg

    Home Theater
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    2 Channel
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,706
    I PM’d Trey (photo) diagrams to cut diffraction panels for my CSi A6 and RTi A7s about an hour ago.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Mids & Tweets- 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Signature -> LFE & CC & 4 Audio Pro Evidence Subs
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 7,684
    edited March 14
    au6ix58kzw17.jpg
    So once I seen Trey using those 3M Velcro Command Strips, I didnt even bother with the package of low profile dots. I know the backs are very sticky and would be a pita to get the left behind residue off the baffles. I know with the Comand strips you can pull them off with the pull strip leaving absolutely no residue behind.

    I'm pretty sure there will be no taking these off I like the results I'm hearing with these on. I put on some Albums that although they sound great have a little top end sizzle. Billy Squires Dont say No at times had some of that top end sizzle on a few tracks. The Supertramp Breakfast In America Mofi SACD while it's definitely the best sounding copy of several LP's and CD'S I have of it. It tended to have a little top end sizzle on the Gone Hollywood, and Child Of Vision tracks, I'm happy to say what I Iistend to did not sound as aggressive at louder volumes with these Pads on

    I did listen to the same recordings prior to applying the felt diffraction pads and definitely can notice a subtle improvement so I'm happy. I usually am not a grill off kind of a guy except for the times when a long listening session is planned. I have the grills are back on and the difference is still noticable. I will leave the grills off more often. I find it kind of cool how minor changes do make a difference. So I'm enjoying the new bling on my 2.3tl's. Im pretty sure these would improve my RTIA's the A9's and CSIA6 could use some to try out. Thanks for doing these Trey.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    Thanks for the feedback! Glad you are enjoying them.

    I feel the long prints on these make a big difference versus 3 or 4 smaller prints.
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,685
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    I PM’d Trey (photo) diagrams to cut diffraction panels for my CSi A6 and RTi A7s about an hour ago.

    Hey Tony,
    I didn't receive any photos if you could resend please

    Thank you
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 1,649
    edited March 14
    JayCee wrote: »
    @JayCee Dire Straits "Critical Private Investigations".......WOW! Super airy and deep deep soundstage. Unfortunately I never heard it before, but still!
    The more detailed your system becomes....you'll hear Knopfler breathing @ 4:36 w/a realism that's either "just there" or much more subtle and well defined. The sound effects (cat, glass breaking, etc) and xylophone(?) are cool and, when resolved, are a part of the deepness you describe. Makes you think they're off in the distance and add to the imagery of the PI story. On a system with a really "black" background, the music builds out of nowhere. From the same album, "Telegraph Road" is another great track.

    Agreed; Telegraph Road is an amazing song on the big SDA's. I was listening to it earlier this week and Knopfler's guitar sounded for all the world like it was coming from a room treatment 3' to the left of the left speaker. I've never gotten rock solid side imaging quite like that.

  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 1,993
    edited March 14
    This is how I punch the holes out for the screw heads on the Peerless Diffraction Pad, in case anyone is interested. If you get them located right you don't even need the velcro lol. I did a better job on this one, for the L speaker. Practice makes perfect. Magnet screw holes are a 40mm x 40mm on square centrally located. Attachment screw holes are 100mm x 60mm rectangular centrally located. 1/4" thin wall brass tubing sharpened inside and out worked fine for the punch. Tapered reamer and/or conical dremel grinding point works for inside. Bench grinder for outside.

    o1bw2pt5yy70.jpg

    I too am finding that albums like Breakfast in America that used to be almost too sizzle-noxious to listen to are now much tamed. Must be that albums that are mixed too hot have the most propensity to cause diffractions. Sounding good especially with the rounded corners.

    I think that some 4" dia. thick walled paper tubes (because it is low mass density) or maybe even pool noodles cut in half and covered with some of the Anti-Diffraction material would be pretty ideal. The corners could be mitered for a nice finished look. May be a bit difficult to bend to that radius, but I would try using 3M spray adhesive on both sides.
    Post edited by Gardenstater on
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 1,993
    edited March 14
    A friend just sent me this photo of the very thick Anti-Diffraction mat'l on his Spicas. They left lots of lateral clearance around the tweeter but again, the material is way way thicker.

    56uwa4fmbbnc.jpg




    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 1,993
    edited March 15
    xschop wrote: »
    Does getting rid of the frame pegs help? I modded mine and installed flat neodymium magnets in the baffle and the grills. Took a while to do it, and don't remember what the difference in sound was lol. They hold the grills very solid though and easy on/off.

    @VR3 Perhaps you could make some small donuts from the anti-diffraction material, if there are any areas that would be wasted material. It couldn't hoit and we audiophiles are a neurotic lot. :) My grille pegs protrude exactly 1/2" but are rounded at the end, so maybe only one donut per would be needed.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform