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Point to point

VR3VR3 Posts: 24,271
edited May 2010 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
Anyone every converted a crossover from a PCB to point to point? Whats the process?

I dont plan to do this - but know it is a superior method
- Not Tom

"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
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  • TECHNOKIDTECHNOKID Posts: 4,323
    edited May 2010
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Anyone ever converted a crossover from a PCB to point to point? Whats the process?

    I dont plan to do this - but know it is a superior method
    Humm, thats a good one! Unless the PCB needs to be replaced I don't see why one would want to do such. Ok, maybe for an upgrade where the components are larger.

    Even if you don't use a PCB you'd still would need to use something hard and non flamable to hold the components in order to strategically place them (hopefully place them similar to the way they were installed on the origiinal Xo), solder your components using their leards and then cover with hot glue.

    The advantage I could see out of such is price and I guess point to point might improve the signal slightly (compared to the tinfoil runs of PCBs)???


    Cheers!
    TK
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • FaceFace Posts: 14,714
    edited May 2010
    Why non flammable? How often do you hear of crossover components bursting into flames? :D

    It's common to mount the components to peg board or a regular piece of wood, solder all components directly to each other, and use chassis wire if needed.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • TECHNOKIDTECHNOKID Posts: 4,323
    edited May 2010
    Face wrote: »
    Why non flammable? How often do you hear of crossover components bursting into flames? :D

    It's common to mount the components to peg board or a regular piece of wood, solder all components directly to each other, and use chassis wire if needed.
    Simply for ease of soldering. also, maybe I am too picky when it comes to safety (anything which use electricity).
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 27,344
    edited May 2010
    Just trace the circuit and reproduce it point to point. It's fine to use terminal strips, too :-)

    I like pegboard; perfboard (which Radio Shack used to sell) is fine, too.

    Here for example is one of the XOs I built for my daughter's CSW Model Sixes displaying my fine construction skills :-P

    CSWSixaXXO.jpg
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  • zingozingo Audiophile Posts: 11,837
    edited May 2010
    Here's another one with the stock board on the left.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=48985&d=1274497086
    Jake
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 27,344
    edited May 2010
    yeah, well, yours is pretty!
    ;-)
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  • FTGVFTGV Posts: 3,675
    edited May 2010
    Nice neat work zingo.

    As long as the PC board has wide traces to handle high currents and allow for proper coil orientation and spacing then IMO no need to go P-P.
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  • TECHNOKIDTECHNOKID Posts: 4,323
    edited May 2010
    It's fine to use terminal strips
    Humm, I really like that idea!

    Very fine job Zingo!
    As long as the PC board has wide traces to handle high currents and allow for proper coil orientation and spacing
    +1
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • zingozingo Audiophile Posts: 11,837
    edited May 2010
    The terminal strip is really nice as I can remove the board without soldering, but it still provides a good connection. Especially if you run your leads through the terminal strip so they touch each other and the screws for the terminal are only securing the connection.
    Jake
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  • TECHNOKIDTECHNOKID Posts: 4,323
    edited May 2010
    A lot of the older commercial equipment was using this type of terminal strip. One of the best on the market. It used taylored short jumpers for paralelling circuits. I think it is a great idea to use it for point to point Xos. I guess you acquired them from parts express?
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • FaceFace Posts: 14,714
    edited May 2010
    This still needs a little lead trimming, but not until after I drill and router the board to zip tie and glue the components down. This is the tweeter and mid section of the custom speakers I built, the woofer crossover is on another board.

    Regal%20Crossover%205-31-10.jpg

    This is my Tannoy HPD-385A crossover. One day I'll get around to staining and sealing it.

    HPD-385A%20Crossover.jpg

    Finally, here's a pair of LSi15 crossovers before being tidied up.

    LSi15%20Crossover%20After.jpg
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • TECHNOKIDTECHNOKID Posts: 4,323
    edited May 2010
    Cool, does look spiffy :D So you did use MDF, it seems to be pretty sturdy. Do you simply "hot glue" the components on the MDF? How do you like the terninal strips you are presently using?
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • zingozingo Audiophile Posts: 11,837
    edited May 2010
    I bought my terminal strips from the local electrical supply store linked below, but I was also able to find them at a number of other local shops. However, I'm sure PE would also have them.

    http://www.frys.com/product/1898992?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
    Jake
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  • ShinAceShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited May 2010
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    Cool, does look spiffy :D So you did use MDF, it seems to be pretty sturdy. Do you simply "hot glue" the components on the MDF? How do you like the terninal strips you are presently using?

    The white terminal strips are the bomb. I bought a 25 pack when I left the electronics store I worked at way back. You can cut them to size, plus the set screw is insulated. They do come in different 'gauges' and I only stocked up on the 18-22 ga style.

    Zingos are not flexible, not exactly insulated, but they do accept spade connectors.
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  • TECHNOKIDTECHNOKID Posts: 4,323
    edited May 2010
    ShinAce wrote: »
    The white terminal strips are the bomb. I bought a 25 pack when I left the electronics store I worked at way back. You can cut them to size, plus the set screw is insulated. They do come in different 'gauges' and I only stocked up on the 18-22 ga style.

    Zingos are not flexible, not exactly insulated, but they do accept spade connectors.
    Thanks ShinAce! Your connector looks good and I see the isolation (feed wire through). The one zingo uses (I am not sure it still exist) you should be able to buy covers for them if they don't exist anymore you can easily make your own. They are very versatile since you can paralell them (either using specific short spade or if you can not get them anymore you just stack the spades,,, probably 3 of them). I guess both types have their pros and cons. One thing for sure, you can do a much nicer job using one or the other instead of twistings wires.

    Cheers!
    TK
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • xschopxschop Posts: 2,066
    I know it is an old thread, but only one that materialized on search. I'm trying to find what is the best wire to use when a little extra lengths are needed between caps/coils/resistors on a P2P board.
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 45,622
    Solid copper or silver..
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,527
    I bought a couple of long lengths of teflon coated silver coated copper avionics wire and use that for my crossovers when I need to add some length.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • xschopxschop Posts: 2,066
    What gauge and # of strands of each type? That's the detail I cant nail down.
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 45,622
    Not stranded, solid core. I wouldn't use anything smaller than 18 gauge.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 27,344
    Speaking of point-to-point: I do need to finalize the XOs on the FrankenAltecs -- someday.

    j46j165wwgzb.jpg

    In my defense -- of course those are audiophile-grade clip leads :)

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  • xschopxschop Posts: 2,066
    edited October 2017
    I'll get solid core 18g silver then. The sales descriptions state either "dead soft" or ahem... " half hard" which are it's annealed properties. Would there be an SQ difference between the two?
    I know the machining properties are night and day, but never looked into electrical properties before.

    Mhardy, organization is the key word of the day lol.
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  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 18,271
    edited October 2017
    I have used this guy great seller has all kinds

    Just an FYI


    http://stores.ebay.com/Johns-Silver-Plated-PTFE-Wire-Shop?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
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  • xschopxschop Posts: 2,066
    My next project I'd like to use 1/8" thick flat copper sheet and machine the traces. Is that too thick? I would like to go at least 3/8" width traces as well.
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  • xschopxschop Posts: 2,066
    xschop wrote: »
    My next project I'd like to use 1/8" thick flat copper sheet and machine the traces. Is that too thick? I would like to go at least 3/8" width traces as well.

    Guess I'll be the first
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  • invalidinvalid Posts: 465
    xschop wrote: »
    My next project I'd like to use 1/8" thick flat copper sheet and machine the traces. Is that too thick? I would like to go at least 3/8" width traces as well.

    That would be pretty Stout traces.
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  • VR3VR3 Posts: 24,271
    I don't think you would see any benefits, point to point is much better than circuit boards
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
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  • xschopxschop Posts: 2,066
    edited November 2020
    The benefit is a universal X-over design for these vintage polks that bolt right in the factory terminal plate spot....
    I'll lathe the OD down to where the traces are 0.035" thick, then cut 0.50" wide traces. That'll leave plenty cabinet insertion clearance after the caps, resistors, and inductors are arranged on the Inner Diameter of the tube and soldered to the copper...

    hkbks47h4qmw.jpg

    I probably can't get your hand-grenade caps fitted, but the usual suspects will fit easily enough...

    vy682816ioya.jpg

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  • VR3VR3 Posts: 24,271
    Yeah but you can technically do that with point to point. They make molex connectors and such that can accomodate point to point. But i understand
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
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