L800 and Compatibilty with External Amps

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VXR8
VXR8 Posts: 291
in Speakers
G'day all,

Saw this on YouTube from Audioholics and around the 13 minute mark they say the L800s will not work for the SDA part with a differential or fully balanced external amp. Here is the link for the review:

https://youtu.be/6MLgmBm-LtE

Can anyone please confirm if this is the case?

Thanks in advance.
Regards - Gaz from the land of Oz

Main System
Denon - AVC-4700H
Emotiva - XPA-9
Cambridge Audio - Azur 851C - CXUHD
Polk Audio - Legend L800 - Legend L400 - Legend L900 - LSiM fx - OWM3
SVS - PB1000 x 2
Foxtel - iQ4
Belkin - Pure AV PF40
Sony K77A9G

Front Room System
PS Audio - Sprout 100
Cambridge Audio - CXC S2 - CA752BD
Sony - UBX800 4K BluRay
Polk Audio - Legend L200
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,838
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    The topology of a fully balanced amp doesn't make it a power amp no matter what. As to what it is about the current SDA speaker that makes it incompatible I can't tell you for sure, but it would have to do with the SDA circuit topology.

    I believe Polk included that info in the manual, but you can't see the manual until you buy the speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,838
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    I stand corrected, the manual is available online and surprisingly does not mention anything about the incompatibility issue. They should correct that immediately.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,880
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    he explained it in the video.
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Puritan PSM156
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,838
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    Yes
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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Answers

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,838
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    Already common knowledge.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • VXR8
    VXR8 Posts: 291
    edited June 2020
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    So you can use a ‘normal’ external amp? That common knowledge should be printed in the owners manual too so people don’t fork out thousands on an external amp to find it won’t work. So can you please explain why balanced / differential amps won’t work with these speakers?
    Regards - Gaz from the land of Oz

    Main System
    Denon - AVC-4700H
    Emotiva - XPA-9
    Cambridge Audio - Azur 851C - CXUHD
    Polk Audio - Legend L800 - Legend L400 - Legend L900 - LSiM fx - OWM3
    SVS - PB1000 x 2
    Foxtel - iQ4
    Belkin - Pure AV PF40
    Sony K77A9G

    Front Room System
    PS Audio - Sprout 100
    Cambridge Audio - CXC S2 - CA752BD
    Sony - UBX800 4K BluRay
    Polk Audio - Legend L200
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  • VXR8
    VXR8 Posts: 291
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    Anyone have anything re why a balanced / differential amp doesn't work? Common knowledge doesn't explain why - logic says it's still a power amp no matter what, it's still powering the speakers so why won't it work?
    Regards - Gaz from the land of Oz

    Main System
    Denon - AVC-4700H
    Emotiva - XPA-9
    Cambridge Audio - Azur 851C - CXUHD
    Polk Audio - Legend L800 - Legend L400 - Legend L900 - LSiM fx - OWM3
    SVS - PB1000 x 2
    Foxtel - iQ4
    Belkin - Pure AV PF40
    Sony K77A9G

    Front Room System
    PS Audio - Sprout 100
    Cambridge Audio - CXC S2 - CA752BD
    Sony - UBX800 4K BluRay
    Polk Audio - Legend L200
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  • VXR8
    VXR8 Posts: 291
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    Thank you - so an unbalanced power amp will work with the SDA component of these speakers then?
    Regards - Gaz from the land of Oz

    Main System
    Denon - AVC-4700H
    Emotiva - XPA-9
    Cambridge Audio - Azur 851C - CXUHD
    Polk Audio - Legend L800 - Legend L400 - Legend L900 - LSiM fx - OWM3
    SVS - PB1000 x 2
    Foxtel - iQ4
    Belkin - Pure AV PF40
    Sony K77A9G

    Front Room System
    PS Audio - Sprout 100
    Cambridge Audio - CXC S2 - CA752BD
    Sony - UBX800 4K BluRay
    Polk Audio - Legend L200
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mpitogo
    mpitogo Posts: 478
    edited June 2020
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    @VXR8 the main point to consider is common ground and singled ended amplifier topology. The SDA channel gets its signal from the opposite channel and needs the full signal to perform optimally which is referenced to ground. With a balanced differential amplifier, the ground is floating, the red terminal provides a positive signal the black terminal provides a negative (opposite) signal and together provide the full signal peak to peak (+ and -). With a balanced differential SDA will only get half of the audio signal.

    When SDA first came out, I don't believe true balanced differential amplifiers where too common in the price segment they were in. Today for the modern L800, most folks will want to spend a complementary sum of money to power these current hungry speakers and balanced differential amps are more common in the price segment they are in.

    I agree totally there should be a warning on these speakers that amplifier selection matters, eg McIntosh (quad balanced), PS Audio (BHK), high end Marantz and Yamaha (eg PM-10, A-S3200) and monoblocks.

    Amps I believe would work are, Anthem, Emotiva, Parasound, Rotel.

    In my personal case I tried both my Marantz PM-10 and McIntosh MC452 but ultimately settled on a bi-amp setup with a common ground McIntosh integrated in full time passthru for the treble and SDA channel, while bass is powered by the Quad Balanced MC452.

    i3f7m3ryfajh.png

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    • Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
    • Media Room Ht-7.2.6/13.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x4], height LSiM703 [x6], HSU VTF-15H MK2 Dual | Marantz AV8805A | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Sony UBP-X800 | AppleTV 4K | JVC RS2100 | 150” Elite Screen Acoustic Pro UHD
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,070
    edited June 2020
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    Y'all just be careful not to conflate balanced vs. "single-ended" (unbalanced) cabling/ component interfaces and balanced ("push pull") vs. single ended amplifier design topology, y'hear?

    ;)

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  • mpitogo
    mpitogo Posts: 478
    edited June 2020
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    Yes true@mhardy6647 single-ended typically RCA vs balanced XLR/TRS for cabling/component interfaces, SDA doesn't care if the Line Level signal fed is either one, it only cares if the amplified output is balanced differential.
    • Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
    • Media Room Ht-7.2.6/13.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x4], height LSiM703 [x6], HSU VTF-15H MK2 Dual | Marantz AV8805A | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Sony UBP-X800 | AppleTV 4K | JVC RS2100 | 150” Elite Screen Acoustic Pro UHD
    • Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV 4K | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
    • Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
    • Office-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX, DSW microPRO3000 | Rotel RA-1570 | Marantz HD-CD1
    • Daughter's Bedroom 1-2.0 TBD Martin Logan Forte | Roku TV
    • Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Martin Logan Forte
    • Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
    • Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080 | Fire TV
    • Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,617
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    well my thought is using balanced most I thought send in phase and out of phase signals on the cable to reject noise. Am I wrong in that assessment?
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  • Jeremias Larrea
    Jeremias Larrea Posts: 3
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    Hi Guys. will L800 work with McIntosh MC303?
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  • Jeremias Larrea
    Jeremias Larrea Posts: 3
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    I have a Denon AVR A110 ...I was setting up the speakers I sent the test signal to the left and I heard the tone in both Right and Left. Is it normal because they have the SDA cable?
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,456
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    Yup.
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    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
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    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,838
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    Jeremias Larrea wrote: »
    Hi Guys. will L800 work with McIntosh MC303?

    Ask McIntosh if the topology is balanced differential. If it is, you cannot use it with the L800.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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