Black Discus Devices

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Comments

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,103
    edited November 2013
    Just got this e-mail from Bob a few moments ago...
    Tom,

    The samples we send out are quite thin - designed to fit into the mail
    system at a affordable rate. Normally we send two mini-sized discs, but I
    will send you 4 instead. You can use these two ways - either stack two and
    use the 4 as two devices, or just use all 4 in separate places. Usually the
    places to try first are (a) amp output, positive terminal - can also put a
    second pair at the speaker end (b) digital link. But it looks like you
    don't have a digital link, so other places include the power supply inlet
    on the CDP. Input to phono preamp; PRE power input; as well as interconnects.

    Cheers
    bob
    Thank you for requesting a BlackDiscus Free Sample.

    We will send this to you right away - if you do not receive within two
    weeks, please get back to us.

    I'd really like to hear how the samples sound in your system, even if you
    can't hear any difference.

    If you have any questions, please get back to me.

    Best wishes
    bob

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,602
    edited November 2013
    drumminman wrote: »
    Wonder why the results I'm experiencing are opposite of what you describe.

    Ferrite compounds are used in power cord jackets, in passive noise filters, and bead filters around power cords to filter environmental noise. Black Discus devices seem to be designed filter a specific type of environmental noise, hence their specified locations where noise shielding is minimal or non-existent like:

    1. Power amp binding posts.
    2. Headphone plugs.
    3. Power cord plugs.
    4. Power supply transformers.
    5. Power cable inlet at a digital source.
    6. Digital output cable at the source.

    If you are not affected by the type of environmental noise the Black Discus devices are designed to filter and/or your cables and cable connectors already have adequate shielding against that type of noise, then the Black Discus devices my have no effect or even a detrimental effect.

    I think of the cases where detrimental effects occur as being analogous to taking a strong medicine when you are perfectly healthy. If you have the illness for which the medicine is indicated, you will notice a net benefit even though there may be undesirable side effects. If you take the medicine without having the indicated illness, you will only experience is the undesirable side effects, and in such case the side effects may be stronger since the medicine is totally acting against a healthy body rather than mostly against an illness within the body.

    One of the drawbacks of noise-filtering ferrite compounds is that they generate a magnetic field that can cause an audible constriction (distortion) of the signal passing through them. That is why PS Audio abandoned ferrite impregnated jackets in their "AC" series power cables.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • drumminmandrumminman Posts: 3,372
    edited November 2013
    Ferrite compounds are used in power cord jackets, in passive noise filters, and bead filters around power cords to filter environmental noise. Black Discus devices seem to be designed filter a specific type of environmental noise, hence their specified locations where noise shielding is minimal or non-existent like:

    1. Power amp binding posts.
    2. Headphone plugs.
    3. Power cord plugs.
    4. Power supply transformers.
    5. Power cable inlet at a digital source.
    6. Digital output cable at the source.

    If you are not affected by the type of environmental noise the Black Discus devices are designed to filter and/or your cables and cable connectors already have adequate shielding against that type of noise, then the Black Discus devices my have no effect or even a detrimental effect.

    I think of the cases where detrimental effects occur as being analogous to taking a strong medicine when you are perfectly healthy. If you have the illness for which the medicine is indicated, you will notice a net benefit even though there may be undesirable side effects. If you take the medicine without having the indicated illness, you will only experience is the undesirable side effects, and in such case the side effects may be stronger since the medicine is totally acting against a healthy body rather than mostly against an illness within the body.

    One of the drawbacks of noise-filtering ferrite compounds is that they generate a magnetic field that can cause an audible constriction (distortion) of the signal passing through them. That is why PS Audio abandoned ferrite impregnated jackets in their "AC" series power cables.

    Thanks for that DK, perhaps that explains it. Presently the only shielded cords I use are the ones for my digital devices: cdp and dac. Everything else is unshielded: IC's and PC's to linestage, power amp and sw.

    I've hear only benefits so far, no negative side effects.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • SpeedskaterSpeedskater Posts: 497
    edited November 2013
    ..............................................
    One of the drawbacks of noise-filtering ferrite compounds is that they generate a magnetic field that can cause an audible constriction (distortion) of the signal passing through them.
    .............................................

    That would be when the self-canceling Send & Return signals are not both going through the same choke.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,602
    edited November 2013
    That would be when the self-canceling Send & Return signals are not both going through the same choke.

    If it is only true of cables carrying unidirectional signals, was there no technical justification for PS Audio to discontinue the use of ferrite impregnated jackets around their power cords?
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • SpeedskaterSpeedskater Posts: 497
    edited November 2013
    Most likely it was cost and marketing issues.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,602
    edited November 2013
    That would be when the self-canceling Send & Return signals are not both going through the same choke.
    Most likely it was cost and marketing issues.

    If the ferrite only shields against high frequency environmental noise, the send and return signals inside the cable would be irrelevant wouldn't they?
    On the oter hand, I can see where the fields generated by the interaction of the ferrite and environmental noise energy might have some effect on the
    power signal running through the cable.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • SpeedskaterSpeedskater Posts: 497
    edited November 2013
    I think that the original possible ferrite problems were:
    a] Large output stage inductors wound on ferrite toroids.
    b] Ferrite beads on transistor base input circuits.

    Then reviewers mis-applied that information.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,209
    edited November 2013
    Spending a bit of time messing with placement tonight. First on my power transformers - kills the treble and throws a veil on the music. Attempted on my 300b driver tubes and same issue. Attempted on positive power cable at amp end, same issue. Now on each mono power cord at the socket - guess what? Same issue. Each time I move them, the sound improves only to fall flat on its face again after a few minutes in its new place.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,602
    edited November 2013
    ^^^It's all in your mind. Your ears are playing tricks on you. Let us know the results after you do a double-blind test.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,449
    edited November 2013
    I tried these on my transformers as well. In my BAT VK-200, my BAT VK-31, my self made DAC, and on my AI-1 Dreadnaught. I foun the same result as DSkip. It does put a veil on the audio. I took them off all the transformers, but left the Cupcake sized ones on the positive binding posts of my BAT VK-200 and the audio sounded good. Smooth, but there is a very slight veil decreasing low level detail. Not bad, but it's there.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,449
    edited November 2013
    Also, I wanted to say that it seems that the more of the BlackDiscus devices you add to your system, the more of a veil it adds to the audio. I will be using only 2 (on the positive binding posts of my amp) and will be asking for a refund for the rest.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,602
    edited November 2013
    headrott wrote: »
    Also, I wanted to say that it seems that the more of the BlackDiscus devices you add to your system, the more of a veil it adds to the audio. I will be using only 2 (on the positive binding posts of my amp) and will be asking for a refund for the rest.

    If your system's tonal quality leans toward brightness, these might be good for taking the edge off.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • JhaymanJhayman Posts: 1,555
    edited November 2013
    I received my samples last week and tried them out this weekend.
    My conclusions just adding the disks to my amps positive terminals gave me a large increase in the lower end a positive thing for me.
    Other than that maybe a slight increase in vocals more detailed..
    On the whole they are staying right where they are..
    ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    edited November 2013
    I also recevied my pakge last week and placed them on the where they said most people get some results from. 1st off again these were a firm object not the foam looking things in the adds. I used ty-raps to secure mine on the + side of the speaker outs of the Adcom w/ no detremental effects at all. Now whether or not I heard/hear any positive effects is still in the R&D phase sinse some of my speakers are apart and others are going through a selector.When the 2bs are done I will run them direct to see if there is a noticeable difference than before.Like some cables I have tried I did hear a difference for the worse and out they went so I am no attuned to what these should sound like.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • drumminmandrumminman Posts: 3,372
    edited November 2013
    Played around with placement in the rig last night. I placed one of the small discs on the digital IC coming out of the transport. Did not like the results as it squashed the soundstage a little, and perhaps attenuated highs. Upon removal everything was restored.

    Still enjoying placement of other discs as follows: Cupcakes in these locations: on top of stacked trannies in power amp, on top of tranny in linestage, on positive BP's in power amp; small thin freebies on positive IC's exiting line stage for power amp and for sub.

    Will experiment with a few other locations including AC cords. For some reason these work really well in my system providing increased clarity, deeper soundstage and tightened bass.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • Polk&BeansPolk&Beans Posts: 94
    edited December 2013
    DSkip wrote: »
    Lew, do you remember my thread a while back about EMF/RFI shielding? These are a product designed to help with that. Your cables can essentially become antennas and soak up noise. These have ferrite in them, which suppresses that phenomena. If you've ever looked at a VGA or DVI cable, you'll notice there is a cylinder near the ends that looks like it serves no purpose. That is ferrite too, and it was attached to the cables for the exact same reason. They should essentially lower the noise floor while improving everything else in the process.

    This isn't kool aid, but hearing a difference because of them will depend on a plethora of factors, including how revealing your system is and how much interference there is.

    Another good idea is to turn of all wireless in your home when listening to your stereo. Routers, Phones, Old Florescent Ceiling Lights. You can buy ferrous clamps, cheap all day long from PE.
  • cimoncimon Posts: 1
    I just try the Mad Scientist Graphene Enhancer, all over my cable connections and the result is: Wow ! I also have a gift from Bob, (2) "BlackDiscusNano", that I set upon my CD IEC and Preamp IEC, with wonderfull: natural music, with details and placement and easy listening to., Unbeleivable, a must try !
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