Black Discus Devices

drumminman

I was reading a thread on AA about this tweak and became intrigued. Folks over at AA have reported positive results, so I figured what heck, and ordered the free samples. They came all the way from New Zealand and the manufacturer did not even ask for postage. Apparently he's trying to get the word out and figures getting people who belong to various audio forums to try them is a good way to reach critical mass.

Anyway, I got around to placing them in one of the locations recommended by the manufacturer, which is on the positive speaker terminals on the back of my power amp. The test CD was Bonnie Raitt, Silver Linings, which is well known to me; a good recording with great tunes.

Played the first cut, and then placed the Black Discus per above. Not a night and day difference, but there was definite improvement in detail and timbre of instruments, transients and her voice. The soundstage deepened front to back, stayed the same laterally. Background instruments were slightly more prominent and easier to hear especially in busy passages. The music seemed to be more enhanced and yet smoother, more engaging.

The free samples I received were two quarter sized discs that are smaller in diameter and thinner than the recommended ones for the speaker terminals. Presumably the appropriate larger ones will produce more of an effect. Among his placement recommendations are on the top of transformers in pre and power amps, so I ordered 4 of his largest ones (aka Cupcakes) last night so I can cover trannies in both and the speaker terminals.


His website is here, which includes instructions on how to get your freebies: http://www.madscientist-audio.com/

You won't find any info on what they're made of, or how they're supposed to work as he has a patent pending. Once I get the product and spend some time with it I'll update this.

drumminman

DSkip wrote: »

I suspect its got a copious amount of ferrite in it. Ordered free samples, thanks for the heads up.

Someone made that speculation over on AA. Apparently, the proprietor makes these in his kitchen and part of the process (he won't reveal much) involves baking in the oven.

He must have a lot of faith in the performance of his product as sending these samples has to be costing a bit.

thsmith

He says this in FAQ

Q: Are they magnets?

A: No. BlackDiscus contain ferrous compounds which are attracted by magnets, but they are not magnetic themselves. The prescence of iron compounds actually has little to do with how BlackDiscus works. Without processing, the discs do nothing. And we have made samples from completely non-magnetic materials.

Thanks for posting, I ordered free samples as well.

Face

They look like Oreo cookies shaped like peanut butter cups, based on that alone I'm going to give them a try. :cheesygrin:

chumlie

I see a run on samples coming his way. Thanks.

headrott

Thanks very much Fred! Ordered a free sample as well. If they make a difference I will order some for my gear.

drumminman

chumlie wrote: »

I see a run on samples coming his way. Thanks.

I sent them an email with a link to my review, so at least they won't be surprised. Wonder when he'll cut off the freebies?

FYI here's a link to one of the threads on AA that piqued my interest:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tweaks&m=191332

drumminman

Received my order on 10/21 (7 days from New Zealand), and included was two free samples. The order was for 4 cupcake size Black Discus (50 mm diameter) and free were two mini size (20 mm diameter).

Last night I opened the power amp and linestage and put one cupcake on the toroid in each. I also removed the original free samples from the positive speaker output binding posts and replaced with 1 cupcake each. Haven't decided where to put the now 4 freebies.

Tonight I'll fire up everything and give it a listen.

Has anyone else received/installed their free samples?

headrott

I received my free samples yesterday. I installed them, but haven't had a chance to listen yet. I put them on the positive binding posts of my VK-200. I will listen tonight and give my impressions on the audio.

headrott

My equipment used for the listening session:

SPEAKERS: SDA SRS 2.3TL's heavily modified with Crossovers containing Clarity Cap ESA caps and Duelund Cast Resistors, and Jantzen inductors. Larry's Rings, Blackhole 5, Cardas CCRR binding posts all around. New exotic wood caps (obviously doesn't affect the audio).
AMP: BAT VK-200 modified with improved Furutech XLR jacks and Oyaide "Inlet" IEC jack.
PRE-AMP: BAT VK-31 with 6 "Tektronix" 1964 Amperex 7308's tubes installed
DAC: my own built DAC using the Buffalo II D/A converter and Tube-I-Zator output boards found here: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?119264-Fully-balanced-Buffalo-II-DAC-with-Tube-I-zator-tube-output.&highlight=buffalo (I am also using 2 Tesla E83CC goldpin tubes and 2 RCA 5751 triple mica black plate tubes now).
SOURCE: Theta Jade transport
OTHER: AI-1 Dreadnaught using the 1KVA Avel-Lindberg transformer, Larry's case with Cardas CCRR binding posts.
POWER CONDITIONING: Equitech 1RQ and Monster voltage stabilizer (yeah, I know.......)
CABLES:
Speaker: MIT Shotgun S3
IC's: Shotgun S3's
Digital cable: Cerious Technologies liquid ceramic conductors and pure silver ground wire
Power: DCCA Exreme Refernce, PS Audio AC-12, and JPS "Digital" power cables
All gear has dynamat installed as well as Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme and Gold tubes.



I had a chance to listen to my system with the BlackDiscus "devices" installed. The fist CD I listened to was Chris Isaak's "San Fancisco Days". I chose this CD and specifically the song "Can't Do A Thing (To Stop Me)" becaus it's well recorded, has great vocals, and great instrumental tone.

I listened to the track with both BlackDiscus "devices" on both positive binding posts on my BAT VK-200 amplifier. (I should note that I listened to the whole album on Tuesday night (10/22) without the BlackDiscus "devices"). I noticed an increase in clarity, very slight detail increase, the vocals seemed clearer, the bass was tighter, and the overall tonality was improved.

Now, of couse I couldn't just let my thoughts stand with that comparison. So, I removed the BlackDiscus "device" from the left positive speaker output only and kept the right BlackDiscus "device" on the positive right speaker output on the BAT VK-200. I listened again to "Can't Do A Thing (To Stop Me)". I noticed that the high hat cymbal in the center of the stereo image was moved slightly to the left side of center this time and the cymbal sounded more tinny (especially from the left side of the stereophonic image). The vocals were less coherent and overall presentation was less coherent. The bass was more bloated as well.

I then replaced the left skpeaker output BlackDiscus "device" and removed the right BlackDiscus "device" from the binding post. I listened again to "Can't Do A Thing (To Stop Me)". As I listened I noticed a less cohessive musical presentation overall as when the left BlackDiscus "device" was remeoved. I did notice a very stark difference in the reproduced audio of a ride cymbal on the right channel (about 1.75 feet to the right of the right speaker (being SDA SRS 2.3TL's)). About 2/3 of the way through the song a ride cymbal comes in at this location. I noticed an absolutely definate decrease in the clarity and detail of the cymbal. I also noticed an absolute definate increase in the tinnyness of the sound of the cymbal.

I then replaced the right channel BlackDiscus "device" so that both were on the positive binding posts of the BAT VK-200. I listened to "Can't Do A Thing (To Stop Me)" again. Immediately upon listening to the song, I noticed a definate increase in clarity, detail and presence produced. The overall tonality was improved and imaging was better. I did not notice an increase in soundstage width, but maybe slightly in depth. If I had to use one word that describes the improvement in the audio produced with the BlackDiscus "devices", it would be coherent.

Next I tried a Jewel song from "Spirit". The song choice was "Hands". I played the track with both BlackDiscus "devices" installed. This album is also well recorded and Jewel's vocals are great.

After listening I removed BOTH of the BlackDiscus "devices" and listened again to "Hands". This time there was a definate decrease in clarity, amount of detail, and tonality. The sound became less coherent and Jewel's vocals became less clear and more distorted.

I then replaced BOTH of the BlackDiscus "devices" and listened to "Hands" again. The clarity, detail, tonality, and coherence were all improved.

In summary, I noticed a definate improvement by installing the BlackDiscus "devices". As I said, if I used one word to descibe what they do to improve the audio, it would be "coherent" or "coherence". As stated, tonality, detail, clarity were all improved. Some more than others. If I were to put them in order of improvement it would be from greatest to least improvement: 1) Clarity 2) Tonality 3) Detail. To a lesser degree, imaging was improved as well as shown by the "Can't Do A Thing (To Stop Me)" example. The difference is definately not "hight and day", but is definately apparent and easily heard. It is stated on the Mad Scientist Audio site that the free samples have less of an effect on the audio due to the smaller diameter and height of the BlackDiscus "devices" (there is less material to "do it's thing"). I am absolutely going to buy some of the "true" BlackDiscus "devices" (some Cupcake sized and maybe some Canopener sized) to install into my system. I very highly suggest you order a free sample for yourself to try them out. HEY! IT'S FREE! Thanks for reading my long review.

drumminman

Nice review Greg. Interesting that your description of what you heard is similar to mine and others I've read on AA.

drumminman

The four cupcakes were placed as described in post #9 above.

Equipment:

Magnavox CDP, Peter Daniel non oversampling dac, Odyssey Candela linestage with RCA cleartop tubes, Odyssey Stratos Stereo Amp heavily modded by Klaus, SDA 2.3TL speakers with the mods in sig., 1000kva AE-1 dreadought, Velodyne 15" subwoofer, plus a bunch of tweaks and mods I’ve built/accumulated over the years.

First disc played was Susan Tedeschi "Hits", a lossless compilation I made mainly from a friend's CD. I'm well acquainted with this as I've practically worn it out. Track 9, Gonna Move, is one of my all time favorite songs. Her band on this includes a Hammond Organ, background vocals, several guitars, bass, drums.

The effect on the sound was similar to that which the free sample made, but enhanced. Transients were crisper which was noticeable initially with cymbals. Although this recording is generally pretty good, the cymbals on some of the cuts, which were made sometimes several years apart, are too hissy, high hats in particular. They had more of a metallic sheen with the cupcakes in place, with a more realistic decay. Picked electric guitars had a more realistic initial “bite” and decay. Chords were richer and more full.

There were sections in songs, particular in “Gonna Move” in which horns would swell in the background. They were a bit more distinct as they faded in and bloomed a bit better, with tonal quality closer to a live performance. Horn punctuations were more percussive in the initial attack of the notes.

The bass sounded tighter.

Next up was Little Feat “Under the Radar”, another CD I’ve listened to a lot. Improvements similar to above were heard. Richie Hayward’s drumming sounded more crisp, background vocals were smoother with individual voices easier to hear. I was able to understand some lyrics that I couldn’t before.

Sean Murphy’s voice didn’t necessarily sound more full, but somehow more “right”. It’s difficult to describe, but there was more of a live quality to it.

The last cd played was an oldie, but one of my favorites: Fleetwood Mac “Mystery to Me”. This was released around 1973 before Buckingham and Nicks joined and forever changed the sound of the band. The recording is good, but sounds somewhat dated. The songwriting and performances are spot on though. Christine McVie’s vocals sounded rich and full, again just more right. John McVie’s bass lines were easier to hear and the depth and tone of the bass was tighter. The drums popped a little better and the cymbals sounded more like cymbals. There was one song in which a tambourine was played that I had never noticed before. It’s fairly buried in the mix, but was clearly audible last night

To sum up I don’t really understand what the Black Discus does, but the effect with the largest ones and the placement I used is easy to hear. It’s much more dramatic than the free sample, perhaps double. Somehow the music sounds more right, the soundstage is bigger mainly due to instruments and vocals having more air around them, but also due to the enhanced tonality and improved transients. While the whole frequency range was improved, the highs in particular sounded sweeter and yet enhanced. Subtle background goings on were clearer.

I still have my two original free samples and the ones I got with this order that I need to place. This tweak is highly recommended.

DarqueKnight

You guys did not do a blind test so I don't believe anything you say. The manufacturer provided specific instructions on how to blind test these devices, and those instructions were tragically ignored by members of this forum. :twisted:

How we blind test canopeners

drumminman

I had my eyes closed - some of the time (I peaked) - does that count? :biggrin:

DarqueKnight

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

headrott

I ordered 4 of the Cupcake sized BD's and 2 of the Canopener sized BD's. Bob said he was going to throw in some "experimental" BD's that he made with alternate metals. The ones I will receive include Mundorf copper in them. I was told by Bob that the copper increases the effect of the BD's. I am going to do a comparison after I receive them. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

chumlie

Really. GTFOH !!!! You guys need help, Just my HBI. I know ya get free crap for ordering and posting on a audio website, but come on. Really !!!. I tried the double blind taste test with friends, SORRY, no difference.

headrott

Charlie,

It does say on the site that not all systems will benefit as much as other systems will. Perhaps your system benefits less or not at all from the BlackDiscus devices?

It's good you tried it at least.

Edit: What do some other people have to say about their free samples? I (and I am sure many others) are interested in what people heard. Face? thsmith? DSkip? DK??

drumminman

headrott wrote: »

What do some other people have to say about their free samples? I (and I am sure many others) are interested in what people heard. Face? thsmith? DSkip? DK??

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ +1

Inquiring minds want to know.

Where do you plan to place the ones you ordered Greg? I still need to work out where to put the smaller sizes, though I want to spend a little more time listening to the system as is.

Interested in your take on the new composition discs - wonder which size he'll send?

thsmith

just got mine but have not tested.

drumminman

headrott wrote: »

What do some other people have to say about their free samples? I (and I am sure many others) are interested in what people heard. Face? thsmith? DSkip? DK??

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ +1

Inquiring minds want to know.

Where do you plan to place the ones you ordered Greg? I still need to work out where to put the smaller sizes, though I want to spend a little more time listening to the system as is.

Interested in your take on the new composition discs - wonder which size he'll send?

DarqueKnight

I ordered samples yesterday.

vcwatkins

Same here. Should be fun.

headrott

drumminman wrote: »

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ +1

Inquiring minds want to know.

Where do you plan to place the ones you ordered Greg? I still need to work out where to put the smaller sizes, though I want to spend a little more time listening to the system as is.

Interested in your take on the new composition discs - wonder which size he'll send?

I am going to place 2 of the Cupcake sizes on the positive binding posts of the BAT VK-200.

I want to place one of the Cupcake sized BD's on the transformerin the BAT VK-200, but it is covered with a metal shielding. It states on the site that placing the BD's in a metal container will yield them useless, so if I put the BD in the metal shielding does that make it useless despite the fact the transformer is in the metal shielding as well? I am working out the best way to place it with Bob right now. I haven't heard back from him today yet.

I will put the 2 Canopener sized BD's on each of the transformers in my BAT VK-31.

I will put the fourth Cupcake sized BD possibly on the Dreadnaught transformer (which is also in a metal case) so I need to find out the best way to do this from Bob.....

I will put any freebies I get on the transformers in my DAC (there are 2 torroidal and 2 R-Core transformers located in it).

I will put one of the small freebies on the Cerious XLR digital cable on the Theta Jade transport end. I will try the other on the Acoustic Revive Ethernet cable connecting my modified Denon DVD-5910 to my DAC (on the DVD-5910 end).

I will see what the results are after I receive them.

drumminman

I placed one of the Cupcakes on the toroidal tranny in my power amp, and it's shielded by a metal enclosure. So if that's preventing much, if any, benefit, the improvement I'm hearing is solely from the placement of the other three. I may remove it and place it on the IEC to the power amp. I stuck the cupcake directly to the top of the toroid in my linestage, off center due to the mounting bolt.

One of the respected members on AA wrote that he placed one of the small sizes on each of the driver tubes in his power amp and heard dramatic improvement, less on the tubes in his pre. He drilled a small hole in the center, with the blessing of Bob, so the disc could fit over the tube nipple and ride on top. Thinking about trying that with the 12AU7's in my line stage.

The other thing that guy reports is that the effect of these is cumulative - more = better.

This am have played Miles Davis "Workin" and Il Sogno with Elvis Costello and the London Philmarmonic. The music sounds so sweet and effortless and the bass has great impact and tone. I can feel the tympani in my chest wherever I am in the house. Spun some CD's last night that I have thought were somewhat harsh sounding, typical digital hash. They were much easier to listen to, the overall sound was much smoother.

Requested samples of the new recipe so I'm looking forward to hearing those and comparing.

heiney9

All this an not a single picture of said disc's in use from the reviewers. Post some pics

H9

drumminman

heiney9 wrote: »

All this an not a single picture of said disc's in use from the reviewers. Post some pics H9

The picture function is not working. Will try again later.

Jhayman

Ordered my samples will see what all the fuss is about..
I like frosting on my cupcakes..

headrott

heiney9 wrote: »

All this an not a single picture of said disc's in use from the reviewers. Post some pics

H9

They honestly don't look too exciting in use Brock. Being serious, I will post some pics later tonight.

headrott

drumminman wrote: »

I placed one of the Cupcakes on the toroidal tranny in my power amp, and it's shielded by a metal enclosure. So if that's preventing much, if any, benefit, the improvement I'm hearing is solely from the placement of the other three. I may remove it and place it on the IEC to the power amp. I stuck the cupcake directly to the top of the toroid in my linestage, off center due to the mounting bolt.

One of the respected members on AA wrote that he placed one of the small sizes on each of the driver tubes in his power amp and heard dramatic improvement, less on the tubes in his pre. He drilled a small hole in the center, with the blessing of Bob, so the disc could fit over the tube nipple and ride on top. Thinking about trying that with the 12AU7's in my line stage.

The other thing that guy reports is that the effect of these is cumulative - more = better.

This am have played Miles Davis "Workin" and Il Sogno with Elvis Costello and the London Philmarmonic. The music sounds so sweet and effortless and the bass has great impact and tone. I can feel the tympani in my chest wherever I am in the house. Spun some CD's last night that I have thought were somewhat harsh sounding, typical digital hash. They were much easier to listen to, the overall sound was much smoother.

Requested samples of the new recipe so I'm looking forward to hearing those and comparing.

I am still waitng to hear back from Bob about placing the BD's on a transformer with a metal cover on it and if it is possible. Bob did say that it is OK to drill holes into the BD's. I will need to try them on my tubes as well. Sounds interesting!

I would drill a hole in the center of the Cupcake BD you put on your linestage transformer. You may get a beter result. This is how Bob said he did it.

Also, "Workin With Miles Davis" is probably my favorite album by him! It's absolutely phenominal!

I still need to take the pictures of the BD's on the binding posts of my VK-200. I will do that now and upload them in a few minutes. Stand by........

headrott

Here are the pictures. Sorry for how horrible they are. they are taken from an iphone 3 (no flash so I used a flashlight )Enjoy.