Onkyo TX-RZ1100

saturn1
saturn1 Posts: 30
in Electronics
Hi,

I am wondering if I could get your thoughts. Will the Onkyo TX-RZ1100 be enough to power LSiM setup (2x 707, 2 x 703, 1 x 706) without a separate AMP? That receiver delivers a nominal power of 140 Watts per channel and each channel is rated at 4 Ohms. If I biamp the two 707s and the 706 and hook up each of the 703s to a single channel, would that work?
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,857
    saturn1 wrote: »
    Hi,

    I am wondering if I could get your thoughts. Will the Onkyo TX-RZ1100 be enough to power LSiM setup (2x 707, 2 x 703, 1 x 706) without a separate AMP? That receiver delivers a nominal power of 140 Watts per channel and each channel is rated at 4 Ohms. If I biamp the two 707s and the 706 and hook up each of the 703s to a single channel, would that work?

    Ok, not to rain on your parade, but, it is NOT rated at 140 x 5. Read the specs a little closer. You CANNOT bi-amp with a receiver, it doesn't work that way. Will it power your LSiMs? Yes, BUT, not to their potential.
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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 2,978
    edited August 2019
    Yeah
    What he ^^ said
    Welcome to the rabbit ho...........................I mean FORUM btw!! ;)
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 1,786
    saturn1 wrote: »
    Hi,

    I am wondering if I could get your thoughts. Will the Onkyo TX-RZ1100 be enough to power LSiM setup (2x 707, 2 x 703, 1 x 706) without a separate AMP?

    That short answer as already stated, no.

    That's a fine looking AVR though, and rated at 140w into 8ohms with (2) channels driven. The more channels you add, the less power each channel gets.

    I let my old Integra power two channels and had external amps to do the rest of the channels. Yours has a fine bank of pre-outs so you're set to add amps as you see fit.

    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman

    HT
    Source: Panasonic UB9000 - Display: LG OLED 65 8B
    Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2

    2CH
    Emotiva: ERC 3 connected via XLR's

    Speakers
    PolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C-706, SS: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9


    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    Ah! Makes sense. On the question of biamping with an AVR, what am I missing:

    https://www.crutchfield.com/S-IMlrfJ6gc28/learn/why-biamp-your-speakers.html
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,208
    saturn1 wrote: »
    Ah! Makes sense. On the question of biamping with an AVR, what am I missing:

    https://www.crutchfield.com/S-IMlrfJ6gc28/learn/why-biamp-your-speakers.html

    @F1nut @Hermitism

    My fingers are tired...
    Living Room 2.1: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Musical Fidelity A308; NAD M51 DAC; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 700 x3; Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 350; Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5
    Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • Hermitism
    Hermitism Posts: 3,617
    r0jpb4iv4msk.jpg
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    So, the only situation where Biamping makes sense is where the power-supply delivers more power than all of speakers which are connected to it could draw. Wouldn’t that also depend on the volume?

    The folks in my ghetto are a little sensitive to sound. I am mainly going for the immersive effect.

    I am already strained from the cost of the speakers and the receiver. I’ll set it up and add an amp if my tone death ears are less than satisfied.
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    Thanks for all of your comments
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,024
    edited August 2019
    straight from Onkyo's site


    140 W/Ch (8 Ohms, 1kHz, 0.08% THD, 2 Channels Driven, FTC) 200 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9% THD, 1 Channel Driven, FTC)

    Notice it is NOT rated 20Hz to 20,000kHz full bandwidth. It's only at 1kHz does it reach the rated output AND once again ONLY 2 channels and 200 watts AT 1 channel at 6 ohms. Rating them at 1kHz is a VERY easy load not much bass and not much high end. What you do not know is how long it was able to hold that rated output at that 1 kHz frequency. It may off just barely hit it and BOOM test over. Could it ouput that power at full bandwidth I highly doubt it.

    Long story short it is more than likely FAR FAR less with multiple channels in play. If it has 80WPC x 5 consider yourself very lucky.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 9,774
    saturn1 wrote: »
    Ah! Makes sense. On the question of biamping with an AVR, what am I missing:

    https://www.crutchfield.com/S-IMlrfJ6gc28/learn/why-biamp-your-speakers.html

    Worthless and inaccurate article.
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    I am sorry that I bought the speakers
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 9,774
    I'm not. The Onkyo RZ might surprise you at how well it can drive them. The LSiM speakers are not a difficult load. Just wire them up normally with one speaker per channel and leave the stock wire jumpers in place.

    Report back and let us know how it sounds.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,024
    saturn1 wrote: »
    I am sorry that I bought the speakers

    nope don't be just be easy on the volume knob and back off if you start hearing compressed or distorted sound.
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    I’ll let you know. Thanks for the advice. I might read through the forum to see if I can find a combination of a weaker receiver and an Amp for about the same price as the Onkyo.

    You are all very knowledgeable. Thanks again.
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,208
    edited August 2019
    saturn1 wrote: »
    I’ll let you know. Thanks for the advice. I might read through the forum to see if I can find a combination of a weaker receiver and an Amp for about the same price as the Onkyo.

    You are all very knowledgeable. Thanks again.

    Something like this: https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr5012/marantz-sr5012-7.2-ch-x-100-watts-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html

    And this: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/5000.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvo_qBRDQARIsAE-bsH9v0DmI5dZv2cClUlQF3ow_3NsVLL8IaiYnxeyHUYHjt24idLY-1GcaAnccEALw_wcB

    Would be much better than just the onkyo...
    Living Room 2.1: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Musical Fidelity A308; NAD M51 DAC; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 700 x3; Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 350; Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5
    Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    How about the Denon 4300H and the Outlaw. Any advantage over the Marantz. That’s the one I was researching.
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    the Onkyo sold before I could purchase it. I ordered the Outlaw 5000 and a Marantz 5013. I'll let you know how it worked. The refurbished Denon 4300 would have been about the same, but I went with the Marantz. Thanks again.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,001
    So, the only situation where Biamping makes sense is where the power-supply delivers more power than all of speakers which are connected to it could draw.

    Nope, that's not it at all. Bi-amping requires two separate amplifiers, they could be of any power rating and the use of active crossovers. You cannot bi-amp with an AVR of any power rating because all the channels share a single power supply. You cannot rob Peter to pay Paul.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,382
    saturn1 wrote: »
    the Onkyo sold before I could purchase it. I ordered the Outlaw 5000 and a Marantz 5013. I'll let you know how it worked. The refurbished Denon 4300 would have been about the same, but I went with the Marantz. Thanks again.

    I have the SR5010, very nice AVR on both music and movies. The Outlaw 5000 is a good amp and for the price is hard to beat.

    I have the Denon 4400 in my main HT. good AVR with lots of whistles and bells. THe Marantz is better at MP3/bluetooth stuff. Other than that I find the SQ about equal.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,208
    mrloren wrote: »
    saturn1 wrote: »
    the Onkyo sold before I could purchase it. I ordered the Outlaw 5000 and a Marantz 5013. I'll let you know how it worked. The refurbished Denon 4300 would have been about the same, but I went with the Marantz. Thanks again.

    I have the SR5010, very nice AVR on both music and movies. The Outlaw 5000 is a good amp and for the price is hard to beat.

    I have the Denon 4400 in my main HT. good AVR with lots of whistles and bells. THe Marantz is better at MP3/bluetooth stuff. Other than that I find the SQ about equal.

    I used to have the sr5007 in the bedroom, denon avr x4200w in the main rig. I think that the marantz is a bit warmer and the denon has a bit more punch. Of course, that’s the entry level marantz and a higher end denon, but I definitely prefer the denon for HT, but would be really satisfied with either.

    I think that combo will rock!
    Living Room 2.1: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Musical Fidelity A308; NAD M51 DAC; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 700 x3; Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 350; Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5
    Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    I was wondering if I could ask a follow-up question. With the outlaw driving the 5 speakers it will be supplying about 120 amps to each of the LSiMs. If I can't add additional speakers, what do I do with the channels on the receiver. Now, is it possible to BiAmp?
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,208
    saturn1 wrote: »
    I was wondering if I could ask a follow-up question. With the outlaw driving the 5 speakers it will be supplying about 120 amps to each of the LSiMs. If I can't add additional speakers, what do I do with the channels on the receiver. Now, is it possible to BiAmp?

    No. Most receivers are power pre outs not both. And it won’t sound better anyway, if anything, worse. You won’t be able to match the levels and the calibration software will be all wonky.

    That amp will sound great, leave it alone.
    Living Room 2.1: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Musical Fidelity A308; NAD M51 DAC; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 700 x3; Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 350; Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5
    Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 5,547
    saturn1 wrote: »
    I was wondering if I could ask a follow-up question. With the outlaw driving the 5 speakers it will be supplying about 120 amps to each of the LSiMs. If I can't add additional speakers, what do I do with the channels on the receiver. Now, is it possible to BiAmp?

    You're just asking for abuse, you know. *insert facepalm*
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 1,786
    edited August 2019
    saturn1 wrote: »
    the Onkyo sold before I could purchase it. I ordered the Outlaw 5000 and a Marantz 5013. I'll let you know how it worked. The refurbished Denon 4300 would have been about the same, but I went with the Marantz. Thanks again.

    Did you get your Marantz yet? There's this...

    https://www.onkyousa.com/product/web-only/tx-rz3100-2/?utm_source=Onkyo+Subscribers&utm_campaign=fe0e33da29-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_08_06_01_36&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_5ae1ad0e3c-fe0e33da29-229415553

    50% off
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman

    HT
    Source: Panasonic UB9000 - Display: LG OLED 65 8B
    Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2

    2CH
    Emotiva: ERC 3 connected via XLR's

    Speakers
    PolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C-706, SS: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9


    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    The Marantz already shipped, but I wound up getting a refurb 6013 for $800. It would cost me about $70 to send it back. The Onkyo seems like a great deal. At the very least, I'll listen to the Marantz/Outlaw combo before making any decisions.

    I live in the Los Angeles area. I can't believe how limited the Brick and Mortar selections are. How are you supposed to buy something without listening to it? About 9 years ago, I purchased a Jamo 426 5.0 system with an Onkyo AVR and a 10" Energy sub. It made a huge difference in my HT experience.

    I just wanted nice speakers for music and didn't realize how much it would take to drive them. If the Onkyo/Outlaw combo would be better than the Marantz/Outlaw combo, I would be willing to get it. I keep these things for a minimum of 10 years, but I doubt that my ears can pick up the difference.

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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    Thanks again for pointing out the deal
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,001
    saturn1 wrote: »
    I was wondering if I could ask a follow-up question. With the outlaw driving the 5 speakers it will be supplying about 120 amps to each of the LSiMs. If I can't add additional speakers, what do I do with the channels on the receiver. Now, is it possible to BiAmp?

    That's 120 watts, not amps.

    NO!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,382
    Marantz SR6013 is a very nice AVR, I think I would take the Marantz over the Onkyo.

    Bi-amp and bi-wire are mostly marketing hype. Unless you getting a ton of monoblock amps and a couple 20Amp lines run to your HT just leave it strait wire.

    Speaking of wire you will need some quality wires. do a search on this forum for wires to use. I would suck if you get everything and use Monoprice stuff then wonder why it doesn't sound that good.

    I too am in SoCal, other than Fry's there is really no place to get a listen before you buy. We can though save on HSU shipping cost by going directly there.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
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  • saturn1
    saturn1 Posts: 30
    Thanks for the advice. I’ll definitely look into the wire. I was also advised to use higher quality hdmi cables. I’ll do some research.

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