Onkyo TX-RZ1100

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Comments

  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 3,767
    F1nut wrote: »
    saturn1 wrote: »
    I was wondering if I could ask a follow-up question. With the outlaw driving the 5 speakers it will be supplying about 120 amps to each of the LSiMs. If I can't add additional speakers, what do I do with the channels on the receiver. Now, is it possible to BiAmp?

    That's 120 watts, not amps.

    NO!

    Oh, common Jesse, don't sugar coat it.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,106
    Ok, HELL NO!!!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,148
    saturn1 wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice. I’ll definitely look into the wire. I was also advised to use higher quality hdmi cables. I’ll do some research.

    I like Audioquest RCA and HDMI, Their speaker wire is great but overpriced at retail. I scored my rocket and type4 on the used market cheap.

    For speaker wire Doug's Furez is a great starting point https://douglasconnection.com/products/diy-and-save-do-it-yourself/raw-cable-for-diy/raw-speaker-cable/ Doug is a forum member and a great guy.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • Geoff4rfcGeoff4rfc Posts: 1,781
    saturn1 wrote: »

    I live in the Los Angeles area. I can't believe how limited the Brick and Mortar selections are. How are you supposed to buy something without listening to it?

    The Best Buy in my area used to have a room with several of the leading AVR's and speakers. It was set up so you could pick any AVR and any speaker combination to see what sounded like what.....now, not so much.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman

    HT
    Source: Oppo 103 - Display: Samsung QLED 65F
    Pre/Processor: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2

    2CH
    Emotiva: ERC 3 connected via XLR's

    Speakers
    PolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C-706, SS: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9


    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,106
    saturn1 wrote: »
    The Marantz already shipped, but I wound up getting a refurb 6013 for $800. It would cost me about $70 to send it back. The Onkyo seems like a great deal. At the very least, I'll listen to the Marantz/Outlaw combo before making any decisions.

    I live in the Los Angeles area. I can't believe how limited the Brick and Mortar selections are. How are you supposed to buy something without listening to it? About 9 years ago, I purchased a Jamo 426 5.0 system with an Onkyo AVR and a 10" Energy sub. It made a huge difference in my HT experience.

    I just wanted nice speakers for music and didn't realize how much it would take to drive them. If the Onkyo/Outlaw combo would be better than the Marantz/Outlaw combo, I would be willing to get it. I keep these things for a minimum of 10 years, but I doubt that my ears can pick up the difference.

    I don't live anywhere close to LA (thankfully), but know of two hifi stores there that I can recommend.

    https://theaudiohome.com/

    http://www.weinhartdesign.com/
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    I just wanted to thank you again for your advice. I got the Outlaw 5000 and the Marantz 6013 to drive the LSIM set up. So far I have listened to music and streamed some Netflix movies. It's a fairly amazing set up. I am in the process of fishing the speaker wires and setting up 4 VT60 in ceiling speakers for Atmos.

    I had high expectations from 707s and the 706 center channel and these were met. The 703s are also amazing speakers. having them a few feet away from me creates the immersive experience for which I was hoping. I have them set up on Transdeco Stands, but I might build shelving for them.

    I really enjoy listening to Multichannel stereo music mainly because of the 703s.

    Thanks for all of the advice.
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    At the moment the Outlaw 5000 is powering the 707s, 706, and 703s. I am going to set up 2 or 4 in ceiling atmos speakers (VT60) which will be powered by the Marantz 6013. Can you all help me come to an understanding of a couple of different observations:

    1. When I stream NetFlix through my apple TV, the volume is very low compared to streaming music using the Marantz internet channels or Apple TV internet radio. Is that issue related to the setup or specific to NetFlix.

    2. While listening to music, switching from Multichannel Stereo to Stereo causes a significant drop in the overall volume. My expectation was that most of the sound would be produced by the fronts and the subwoofer. The center channel is definitely large, but I am a bit surprised by how high the volume has to be adjusted in Stereo mode.
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,148
    1. different sources will have different sound levels. This is normal. How is your internet connection? a slower connection might affect the sound.

    2. Multi-channel stereo is putting out the same power to all the speakers. When you cut it down to just stereo you are sending the same power to two speakers. more speakers playing louder it will be.

    The V60 are a nice speaker for ATMOS/DTSX .
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    edited August 29
    My speed is over 100 Mbps, but the wireless connection to the router is not very strong in the living room. Maybe a range extender will do the trick. Thanks for the explanation. There are many components and I want to make sure that everything is working correctly.

    I am glad that I did not strike out with the VT60s. On sale, they are about 1/3 of the price of LS-700s. That adds up when you are talking about 4 speakers. I listened to them and the MC80s. They sounded a little louder and a little more clear.
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    I have my "mono-amped" system set up with the Marantz 6013 and the Outlaw 5000 driving the 707s, 706 and 703. It all sounds great and on medium volume every corner of the house is filled with music. I am going to set up 4 VT-60 ceiling speakers for Atmos on a sloped ceiling. The configuration of the room is such that the width is about 16 feet and the total length is about 24 ft (seating area is about 16 feet in length length is about 16 feet). The sloped ceiling ranges from 12 feet to 18.5 feet high.

    My question has to do with the subwoofer. Currently, I am using an Energy 10.3 and I don't really have a problem with the Bass. I found a deal on an SVS SB-2000 for $500 in the gloss finish that I like, so I just bought it. Am I just wasting money? Should I wait an buy a bigger sub later?

    I get a little obsessed with technical things, but I am really enjoying this stuff. Once I figure out how to run Atmos on my 1080p era equipment, I want to hear rain falling from my ceiling. Hopefully, I'll achieve that before bankruptcy.


    Another option might be to find a used Energy 10.3 sub and run the system as 5.4.2. Listening to music on the Polks with the set up you all recommended is amazing. It fills the house, but the volume is not obnoxious in any location.

  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,148
    The SB2000 is a good sub. your SR6013 supports dual subs. hook them both up run Audyssey and see how it sounds. Mixing ported and sealed subs can get tricky.

    If it was me I'd cancel the SVS and get a dual HSU VTF2 or VTF3 setup. or you could go for broke and get dual SVS PB4000

    In the fall SVS has been putting up the 12NSD subs for dirt cheap in the $400 range. Dual PB12NSD would be sweet.

    Be careful on this rabbit hole, we can help you spend a tone of cash.

    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    I could by a barely used HSU VT3- MK2. It is down-firing and I have tile floors covered with a rug. How about that?
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,148
    I would seriously save an wait a month or two. If SVS comes out with 12NSD again they would be the one to go for.

    A VTF3-MK2 is a good sub, it is a little older so it depends on how much has it been rocked.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    All right. That sounds like a plan. I can definitely live with the Energy 10.3. I like it.
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 6,010
    saturn1 wrote: »
    I could by a barely used HSU VT3- MK2. It is down-firing and I have tile floors covered with a rug. How about that?

    Hold on now how much? I ran a used HSU VT3r (basically the same sub) for years and it rocked! One of the best subs I have ever had. If the price is right I would jump on it pending a good demo of course...
    Living Room 2.1: Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkii; Energy s10.2 sub; Cambridge Azur 851a; Cambridge Azur 752BD; Bryston BPD-1; NVidia ShieldTV
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Definitive Technology SM350; Definitive Technology LCR2000; Definitive Technology Procinema 800; Mirage Nanasats; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP;
    ; Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, ACI Titan Subwoofer Squeezebox Touch
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    I bought the SVS SB-2000 Piano Black for $500 plus tax. I still have 2 weeks to return it. I can buy the HSU VT3-MK2 for $290. The seller claims that it is pretty much new in a box. He purchased two and wound up only needing one.
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    I have to say that I don't really have a problem with the Energy 10.3. For me it has been a good sub, but the room is large with high ceilings and the house has an open floor plan. The SVS rep was suggesting that I buy their high end sub, but I won't spend $2000 on a sub.

    I really think that two Energy 10.3 would do the job and they would be matched.
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 6,010
    Audition the HSU. It will destroy your energy sub. You won’t know what hit you. Been there done that bought the t-shirt...

    And it will have more output and dig deeper than the svs...
    Living Room 2.1: Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkii; Energy s10.2 sub; Cambridge Azur 851a; Cambridge Azur 752BD; Bryston BPD-1; NVidia ShieldTV
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Definitive Technology SM350; Definitive Technology LCR2000; Definitive Technology Procinema 800; Mirage Nanasats; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP;
    ; Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, ACI Titan Subwoofer Squeezebox Touch
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,148
    @ $290 and hardly used the VTF3 is worth looking at.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    I haven’t made any changes on the subwoofer yet, but I saw the LSIM 702s on sale. Right now I have enough speakers for a 5.1.4 setup 2x 707, 1x 706, 2x 703s and and 4 VT60s for ceiling atoms (not yet installed). They are being driven by a Marantz 6013 and an Outlaw 5000. If I get the 702s for side surrounds for a 7.1.4 setup, will the Marantz be enough to drive the 702s and the VT60s if the Outlaw is driving the other 5 speakers.

    I am not going to be able to upgrade the AVR or the Amp for a long time, but it would be nice to have a 7.1.4 setup for the sake of completeness. I don’t know how much of a difference it would make once the Ceiling speakers are installed.
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,148
    saturn1 wrote: »
    I haven’t made any changes on the subwoofer yet, but I saw the LSIM 702s on sale. Right now I have enough speakers for a 5.1.4 setup 2x 707, 1x 706, 2x 703s and and 4 VT60s for ceiling atoms (not yet installed). They are being driven by a Marantz 6013 and an Outlaw 5000. If I get the 702s for side surrounds for a 7.1.4 setup, will the Marantz be enough to drive the 702s and the VT60s if the Outlaw is driving the other 5 speakers.

    I am not going to be able to upgrade the AVR or the Amp for a long time, but it would be nice to have a 7.1.4 setup for the sake of completeness. I don’t know how much of a difference it would make once the Ceiling speakers are installed.

    Yes it would have enough power. If you're moving the 703 from side to rear surrounds you will need at least 5' from the listening seat for the 7.1.4.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,496
    I’d just stick with 5 channels and maybe swap the 703s for 702s. You might be surprised what a properly set up and well powered 5.1 sounds like.

    More speakers doesn’t = better if you’re not going to power them all the same.

    Amps do sound different and using different amps In multichannel surround sound definitely takes away from the seamlessness and realism you’d get otherwise.

    If it were me, I’d sell the 6013 and purchase a good AV pre processor.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,148
    I’d just stick with 5 channels and maybe swap the 703s for 702s. You might be surprised what a properly set up and well powered 5.1 sounds like.

    More speakers doesn’t = better if you’re not going to power them all the same.

    Amps do sound different and using different amps In multichannel surround sound definitely takes away from the seamlessness and realism you’d get otherwise.

    If it were me, I’d sell the 6013 and purchase a good AV pre processor.

    I'm not trying or going to argue what is better 5.1 or 7.2.4. A properly setup system will always sound better than a ton of speakers crammed into a room.

    A good 7 channel does require a lot of room. Back speakers need to be separated from the side surrounds. Problem is a lot of people just try to cram as many speakers as they can into a room. That is a big no, no.

    ATMOS/DTSX in-ceiling speakers add a lot of effect sound for a great movie experience. I have two HT's in my house. Main system is a 5.1.4 that is just great. Bedroom HT is 5.1 a good system but after listening to the main HT, yeah there's a big difference without the ceiling speakers.

    I power my front 3 with an amp and use my AVR to power all 6 surrounds. Fantastic is all I have to say about the sound. The SR6013 is a darn good AVR that should power the ceiling and surround speakers nicely

    I do agree that a good pre-amp with good amps driving all speakers is the way to go if budget allows. I'd love to have a Marantz 7705 and 3 A31's driving my speakers.

    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • saturn1saturn1 Posts: 30
    edited October 7
    The price on the 702s kept on dropping. I'll complete the install of the 5.1.4 system. If the 702s are still available when I am done, I'll think about expanding to 7.1.4. The idea of height channels with Atmos is very appealing to me. I want to hear rain falling from the ceiling, but I am slowly realizing that this is going to cost a fortune. I may have to upgrade my 1080p Plasma TV, my Apple TV and/ or my blue ray player. I didn't realize that Atmos is tied in to the 4K video signal.

    Do you think that the 702s will do a much better job as surrounds vs the 703s in a 5.1.4 system. The 703s are certainly bigger.
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,496
    Yes they will, and they’re much easier to hang.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 6,010
    Dolby recommends direct firing speakers for all atmos surrounds. I have not heard dipoles in an atmos setup app I don’t know if they actually sound bad or not...
    Living Room 2.1: Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkii; Energy s10.2 sub; Cambridge Azur 851a; Cambridge Azur 752BD; Bryston BPD-1; NVidia ShieldTV
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Definitive Technology SM350; Definitive Technology LCR2000; Definitive Technology Procinema 800; Mirage Nanasats; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP;
    ; Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, ACI Titan Subwoofer Squeezebox Touch
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