Goodbye Pioneer / Onkyo

dpowelldpowell Posts: 2,818
edited July 10 in The Clubhouse
With the new version of Android Pie, the Pioneer iControl AV app can no longer connect to the receiver. Thousands of Pioneer users have lost this convenience once their smart devices update to Pie. I reached out to Pioneer tech support asking if the app would be updated to solve this issue. I received the following response this morning:
_____
"Hello,

Upon investigation, we have found that due to the age of the application we are not capable of updating the app to control the unit. We apologize for the inconvenience."
_____

When I invest significant money in a piece of gear, I expect that I should be able to use the full feature set of the device for the the life of the device. Pioneer not fixing the Pandora authentication issue was an annoyance. Not fixing this app which provides a vast amount of receiver control functions that are not available on the regular remote is totally unacceptable.

Pioneer just lost my business for life.
____________________________________________________________
polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL's + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X TC265i Rears, SVS PB13 Ultra x 2
Pass Labs X1, Pioneer Elite SC-67, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, Oppo BDP-83SE, Sony SCD-C333ES
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Comments

  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 5,964
    Yea that sucks, I love my denon iOS remote. I will say that a $5 aftermarket app is better than denon's, and that is what I use. I am sure someone will fill in the gap...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; B&K TX4430; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Excite x18; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP; NVidia ShieldTV
    ;
    Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, NHT Super One CI surrounds, Martin Logan Dynamo (original), Squeezebox Touch
  • jflail2jflail2 Posts: 2,886
    Which app is the aftermarket one you’re using?
    2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ

    2010 Club Polk Fantasy Football Champ

    2011 Club Polk Football Pool Champ


    "It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!"
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,403
    edited July 10
    dpowell wrote: »
    With the new version of Android Pie, the Pioneer iControl AV app can no longer connect to the receiver. Thousands of Pioneer users have lost this convenience once their smart devices update to Pie. I reached out to Pioneer tech support asking if the app would be updated to solve this issue. I received the following response this morning:
    _____
    "Hello,

    Upon investigation, we have found that due to the age of the application we are not capable of updating the app to control the unit. We apologize for the inconvenience."
    _____

    When I invest significant money in a piece of gear, I expect that I should be able to use the full feature set of the device for the the life of the device. Pioneer not fixing the Pandora authentication issue was an annoyance. Not fixing this app which provides a vast amount of receiver control functions that are not available on the regular remote is totally unacceptable.

    Pioneer just lost my business for life.

    1. Thus modern technology. "Planned obsolescence" no longer requires careful mechanical engineering. Changing a couple of lines of code can turn any formerly useful product into a brick.

    2. "Pioneer" (Onkyo) as such is no more, anyway.
    https://hdguru.com/sound-united-moves-to-acquire-onkyo-brands/
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 5,964
    jflail2 wrote: »
    Which app is the aftermarket one you’re using?

    DeRemote for denon or marantz. Doesn’t help the OP unfortunately, but I am sure there is something similar...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; B&K TX4430; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Excite x18; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP; NVidia ShieldTV
    ;
    Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, NHT Super One CI surrounds, Martin Logan Dynamo (original), Squeezebox Touch
  • msgmsg Posts: 5,017
    I hate to hear stories like this. There isn't even a true apology over the matter. I didn't even have to read the response from Onkyo/Pioneer to know that it would include the phrase, "sorry for the inconvenience." False customer service.

    Another option would be to keep an old device around as your "remote".

    Or, as RT says, someone else will fill in. If the platform is popular enough, someone might step up, though I'm not sure why anyone would choose to be an app developer these days. Have you ever read some of the reviews and feedback these poor guys get in the app stores? Extremely rude and demanding, often on free or low cost apps.
    I disabled signatures.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,492
    I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • jflail2jflail2 Posts: 2,886
    Thanks Rooftop. Using a Denon in the living room so just installed that app.
    2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ

    2010 Club Polk Fantasy Football Champ

    2011 Club Polk Football Pool Champ


    "It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!"
  • dpowelldpowell Posts: 2,818
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    2. "Pioneer" (Onkyo) as such is no more, anyway.
    https://hdguru.com/sound-united-moves-to-acquire-onkyo-brands/

    Makes sense why they would have zero motivation to keep current customers happy.

    ____________________________________________________________
    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL's + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X TC265i Rears, SVS PB13 Ultra x 2
    Pass Labs X1, Pioneer Elite SC-67, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, Oppo BDP-83SE, Sony SCD-C333ES
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,403
    edited July 10
    I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....

    Not a fan of the Apple ecosystem then, I presume?

    :)
    dpowell wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    2. "Pioneer" (Onkyo) as such is no more, anyway.
    https://hdguru.com/sound-united-moves-to-acquire-onkyo-brands/

    Makes sense why they would have zero motivation to keep current customers happy.
    That's my guess, yes. :/
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,476
    Yamaha is doing the same thing, no quobuz for products developed prior to 2018...

    Just the new trend
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,403
    it's not all that new (remember when OTA digital TV took over and NTSC analog went dark?) -- but it is accelerating.

    Wait 'til the IOT is pervasive in folks' homes. You pad into the kitchen one morning, and the display on the fridge says
    Samsung says it is time for you to get a new 'fridge, Dave

    bt5pdhmyelc8.png

  • dpowelldpowell Posts: 2,818
    The crazy thing is it isnt rocket science to modify a few lines of code to fix a problem. Mind boggling that a company is willing to take a PR hit when an app fix seems like such a low cost way to score a big win.
    ____________________________________________________________
    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL's + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X TC265i Rears, SVS PB13 Ultra x 2
    Pass Labs X1, Pioneer Elite SC-67, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, Oppo BDP-83SE, Sony SCD-C333ES
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,507
    There were also numerous cases years ago where companies said their expensive home theater preamps could be upgraded in the future via firmware or an add on card. In most cases those coulds never materialized. Losing functionality that was already there is a new one though. They’re probably covered by some lengthy legal disclaimers in their warranty sheet to the effect that the product is not guaranteed to work later due to circumstances beyond their control.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,082
    Hmm. Thanks for the reminder to uninstall the app from my phone! Sold my SC-91 months ago...
  • stevepstevep Posts: 94
    I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....

    That pretty much rules out anything that connects to the network.

    If companies are going to drop support they should be forced to release the code or schematics of the product. That would change the dynamic a bit.
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 19,054
    How did we ever survive in the 60's & 70's with equipment that wasn't firmware upgradeable?

    Just fine...
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 5,964
    steveinaz wrote: »
    How did we ever survive in the 60's & 70's with equipment that wasn't firmware upgradeable?

    Just fine...

    How did they survive in the 1800s without electricity and running water??? 😂
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; B&K TX4430; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Excite x18; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP; NVidia ShieldTV
    ;
    Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, NHT Super One CI surrounds, Martin Logan Dynamo (original), Squeezebox Touch
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,403
    steveinaz wrote: »
    How did we ever survive in the 60's & 70's with equipment that wasn't firmware upgradeable?

    Just fine...

    ... and there was one interface

    nkjtnatg5t0r.png


    OK, two

    5aia4gb4cohs.png


    B)

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,403
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    steveinaz wrote: »
    How did we ever survive in the 60's & 70's with equipment that wasn't firmware upgradeable?

    Just fine...

    How did they survive in the 1800s without electricity and running water??? 😂

    Hand to hand combat -- to the death.

    :)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,403
    stevep wrote: »
    I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....

    That pretty much rules out anything that connects to the network.

    If companies are going to drop support they should be forced to release the code or schematics of the product. That would change the dynamic a bit.

    The EU offers some protections against obsolescence to its citizen consumers. At least, last I knew, they did.

  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,458
    Well, that blows. One of the main reasons I like my Pioneer receiver is the ability to control the zone 2 functionality from my phone. Prior to the Pioneer, I was using glitchy RF remotes & repeaters, truly frustrating. The Pioneer will be out the door before I ever consider going back to that.
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,895
    As mentioned find a older iPhone that someone doesn’t want, but it for a few bucks and then never install updates lol....

    I’ve got my wife’s old iPhone 5 for my daughter to act like she’s got a phone, and my old 6+ to get repaired at some point simply because it would be a nice backup..
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • dpowelldpowell Posts: 2,818
    stevep wrote: »
    I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....

    If companies are going to drop support they should be forced to release the code or schematics of the product. That would change the dynamic a bit.

    Agreed. Polk released schematics for all the SDA's which has greatly benefitted this community. It would cost pioneer nothing to release the app source code.
    ____________________________________________________________
    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL's + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X TC265i Rears, SVS PB13 Ultra x 2
    Pass Labs X1, Pioneer Elite SC-67, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, Oppo BDP-83SE, Sony SCD-C333ES
  • stevepstevep Posts: 94
    dpowell wrote: »
    It would cost pioneer nothing to release the app source code.

    It dawned on me that perhaps the underlying problem is that during the merger they lost the source and can't fix it even if they wanted. Or that it was farmed out and they never had it.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,403
    ... or they want their customers to buy new stuff.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,492
    stevep wrote: »
    dpowell wrote: »
    It would cost pioneer nothing to release the app source code.

    It dawned on me that perhaps the underlying problem is that during the merger they lost the source and can't fix it even if they wanted. Or that it was farmed out and they never had it.
    This is what happened to the McIntosh MS750. They did not control the source code to begin with, and when the company they used failed, so too did the MS750...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,109
    I have actually found "Simple Remote" to have a much broader range of functionality than respective brand apps. Simple Remote only does their remote control app. That's it. So they can create a much more finished product to provide even more functionality than the pre/pro manufacturer can and looks way more polished.

    While someone like Sound United (Denon, Marantz and Pioneer and Onkyo now too lol) has to consider the ramifications of providing a product that will not encourage a user to upgrade...no repeat business if someone is happy with their product for years to come.

    Honestly, at this point, you are better off finding a universal remote app that you like and sticking with that. I use 2 different versions of Simple Remote (one on my original iPad Mini that doesn't update anymore and one on my current gen iPad mini that has the latest and greatest version of the app) and both of them do everything I could ever hope for or want and the cost was a pittance compared to replacing my hardware.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • warrenwarren Posts: 665
    You paid your money and you took your chances.. Pioneer lost in your long deal..
    Some final words,
    "If you keep banging your head against the wall,
    you're going to have headaches."
    Warren
  • KexKex Posts: 3,605
    Two suggestions:
    1. Try an iOS device, even a borrowed one (an iPod or iPad would be perfect).
    2. Try a Logitech Harmony remote. They have stored commands that may not have even been on the original remote for 270K devices.

    The iOS option is likely to be the easiest. The iControlAV application is still available from the iOS App Store. If you can test it, and it works the way you want (which seems likely), you could easily buy a refurbished iPod or iPad for less than brand new (and they will look absolutely 100% new anyway) and solve your problem that way.

    https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished

    The Harmony option will require a bit of work, and it can be a bit overwhelming to get everything set up properly, but an RF hub is available, and if done properly, it works very well.

    https://www.logitech.com/en-us/harmony-universal-remotes
    Alea jacta est!
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