Goodbye Pioneer / Onkyo
dpowell
Posts: 3,068
With the new version of Android Pie, the Pioneer iControl AV app can no longer connect to the receiver. Thousands of Pioneer users have lost this convenience once their smart devices update to Pie. I reached out to Pioneer tech support asking if the app would be updated to solve this issue. I received the following response this morning:
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"Hello,
Upon investigation, we have found that due to the age of the application we are not capable of updating the app to control the unit. We apologize for the inconvenience."
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When I invest significant money in a piece of gear, I expect that I should be able to use the full feature set of the device for the the life of the device. Pioneer not fixing the Pandora authentication issue was an annoyance. Not fixing this app which provides a vast amount of receiver control functions that are not available on the regular remote is totally unacceptable.
Pioneer just lost my business for life.
_____
"Hello,
Upon investigation, we have found that due to the age of the application we are not capable of updating the app to control the unit. We apologize for the inconvenience."
_____
When I invest significant money in a piece of gear, I expect that I should be able to use the full feature set of the device for the the life of the device. Pioneer not fixing the Pandora authentication issue was an annoyance. Not fixing this app which provides a vast amount of receiver control functions that are not available on the regular remote is totally unacceptable.
Pioneer just lost my business for life.
____________________________________________________________
polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
Comments
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Yea that sucks, I love my denon iOS remote. I will say that a $5 aftermarket app is better than denon's, and that is what I use. I am sure someone will fill in the gap...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
Which app is the aftermarket one you’re using?2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
2010 Club Polk Fantasy Football Champ
2011 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
"It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!" -
With the new version of Android Pie, the Pioneer iControl AV app can no longer connect to the receiver. Thousands of Pioneer users have lost this convenience once their smart devices update to Pie. I reached out to Pioneer tech support asking if the app would be updated to solve this issue. I received the following response this morning:
_____
"Hello,
Upon investigation, we have found that due to the age of the application we are not capable of updating the app to control the unit. We apologize for the inconvenience."
_____
When I invest significant money in a piece of gear, I expect that I should be able to use the full feature set of the device for the the life of the device. Pioneer not fixing the Pandora authentication issue was an annoyance. Not fixing this app which provides a vast amount of receiver control functions that are not available on the regular remote is totally unacceptable.
Pioneer just lost my business for life.
1. Thus modern technology. "Planned obsolescence" no longer requires careful mechanical engineering. Changing a couple of lines of code can turn any formerly useful product into a brick.
2. "Pioneer" (Onkyo) as such is no more, anyway.
https://hdguru.com/sound-united-moves-to-acquire-onkyo-brands/ -
Which app is the aftermarket one you’re using?
DeRemote for denon or marantz. Doesn’t help the OP unfortunately, but I am sure there is something similar...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
I hate to hear stories like this. There isn't even a true apology over the matter. I didn't even have to read the response from Onkyo/Pioneer to know that it would include the phrase, "sorry for the inconvenience." False customer service.
Another option would be to keep an old device around as your "remote".
Or, as RT says, someone else will fill in. If the platform is popular enough, someone might step up, though I'm not sure why anyone would choose to be an app developer these days. Have you ever read some of the reviews and feedback these poor guys get in the app stores? Extremely rude and demanding, often on free or low cost apps.I disabled signatures. -
I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Thanks Rooftop. Using a Denon in the living room so just installed that app.2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
2010 Club Polk Fantasy Football Champ
2011 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
"It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!" -
mhardy6647 wrote: »2. "Pioneer" (Onkyo) as such is no more, anyway.
https://hdguru.com/sound-united-moves-to-acquire-onkyo-brands/
Makes sense why they would have zero motivation to keep current customers happy.
____________________________________________________________
polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050 -
nooshinjohn wrote: »I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....
Not a fan of the Apple ecosystem then, I presume?
That's my guess, yes.mhardy6647 wrote: »2. "Pioneer" (Onkyo) as such is no more, anyway.
https://hdguru.com/sound-united-moves-to-acquire-onkyo-brands/
Makes sense why they would have zero motivation to keep current customers happy.
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Yamaha is doing the same thing, no quobuz for products developed prior to 2018...
Just the new trend- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
it's not all that new (remember when OTA digital TV took over and NTSC analog went dark?) -- but it is accelerating.
Wait 'til the IOT is pervasive in folks' homes. You pad into the kitchen one morning, and the display on the fridge saysSamsung says it is time for you to get a new 'fridge, Dave
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The crazy thing is it isnt rocket science to modify a few lines of code to fix a problem. Mind boggling that a company is willing to take a PR hit when an app fix seems like such a low cost way to score a big win.____________________________________________________________
polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050 -
There were also numerous cases years ago where companies said their expensive home theater preamps could be upgraded in the future via firmware or an add on card. In most cases those coulds never materialized. Losing functionality that was already there is a new one though. They’re probably covered by some lengthy legal disclaimers in their warranty sheet to the effect that the product is not guaranteed to work later due to circumstances beyond their control.
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Hmm. Thanks for the reminder to uninstall the app from my phone! Sold my SC-91 months ago...
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nooshinjohn wrote: »I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....
That pretty much rules out anything that connects to the network.
If companies are going to drop support they should be forced to release the code or schematics of the product. That would change the dynamic a bit. -
How did we ever survive in the 60's & 70's with equipment that wasn't firmware upgradeable?
Just fine...Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
How did we ever survive in the 60's & 70's with equipment that wasn't firmware upgradeable?
Just fine...
How did they survive in the 1800s without electricity and running water??? 😂Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
How did we ever survive in the 60's & 70's with equipment that wasn't firmware upgradeable?
Just fine...
... and there was one interface
OK, two
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Hand to hand combat -- to the death.
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nooshinjohn wrote: »I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....
That pretty much rules out anything that connects to the network.
If companies are going to drop support they should be forced to release the code or schematics of the product. That would change the dynamic a bit.
The EU offers some protections against obsolescence to its citizen consumers. At least, last I knew, they did.
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Well, that blows. One of the main reasons I like my Pioneer receiver is the ability to control the zone 2 functionality from my phone. Prior to the Pioneer, I was using glitchy RF remotes & repeaters, truly frustrating. The Pioneer will be out the door before I ever consider going back to that.
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As mentioned find a older iPhone that someone doesn’t want, but it for a few bucks and then never install updates lol....
I’ve got my wife’s old iPhone 5 for my daughter to act like she’s got a phone, and my old 6+ to get repaired at some point simply because it would be a nice backup.."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
May be useful going forward:
https://raymondjulin.com/blog/remote-control-your-pioneer-vsx-receiver-over-telnet
https://arnowelzel.de/en/control-av-receivers-by-pioneer-over-the-network
https://github.com/openhab/openhab1-addons/wiki/pioneer-avr-binding
Worst case wireshark the transactions to the receiver.
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nooshinjohn wrote: »I won’t buy any product that loses functionality based upon the whim of the manufacturer....
If companies are going to drop support they should be forced to release the code or schematics of the product. That would change the dynamic a bit.
Agreed. Polk released schematics for all the SDA's which has greatly benefitted this community. It would cost pioneer nothing to release the app source code.____________________________________________________________
polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050 -
It would cost pioneer nothing to release the app source code.
It dawned on me that perhaps the underlying problem is that during the merger they lost the source and can't fix it even if they wanted. Or that it was farmed out and they never had it. -
... or they want their customers to buy new stuff.
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This is what happened to the McIntosh MS750. They did not control the source code to begin with, and when the company they used failed, so too did the MS750...
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I have actually found "Simple Remote" to have a much broader range of functionality than respective brand apps. Simple Remote only does their remote control app. That's it. So they can create a much more finished product to provide even more functionality than the pre/pro manufacturer can and looks way more polished.
While someone like Sound United (Denon, Marantz and Pioneer and Onkyo now too lol) has to consider the ramifications of providing a product that will not encourage a user to upgrade...no repeat business if someone is happy with their product for years to come.
Honestly, at this point, you are better off finding a universal remote app that you like and sticking with that. I use 2 different versions of Simple Remote (one on my original iPad Mini that doesn't update anymore and one on my current gen iPad mini that has the latest and greatest version of the app) and both of them do everything I could ever hope for or want and the cost was a pittance compared to replacing my hardware."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
You paid your money and you took your chances.. Pioneer lost in your long deal..Some final words,
"If you keep banging your head against the wall,
you're going to have headaches."
Warren -
Two suggestions:
- Try an iOS device, even a borrowed one (an iPod or iPad would be perfect).
- Try a Logitech Harmony remote. They have stored commands that may not have even been on the original remote for 270K devices.
The iOS option is likely to be the easiest. The iControlAV application is still available from the iOS App Store. If you can test it, and it works the way you want (which seems likely), you could easily buy a refurbished iPod or iPad for less than brand new (and they will look absolutely 100% new anyway) and solve your problem that way.
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished
The Harmony option will require a bit of work, and it can be a bit overwhelming to get everything set up properly, but an RF hub is available, and if done properly, it works very well.
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/harmony-universal-remotesAlea jacta est!
