Budget 2CH Rig for Newbies - A Challenge

verb · March 2019

Well done Vic!

halo · March 2019

verb wrote: »

Well done Vic!

Thanks Dave!

codycatalist · March 2019

I think my Adcom amp sounds good. Lots of control in the lower registers. Only thing I never liked was the lack of speaker protection.

displayname · March 2019

Obviously helping someone source new gear is the best bang for the buck. Given the challenge, I would say go with a digital only system at first. It's much cheaper to move further up the ladder with digital.

dromunds · March 2019

Not sure what size room? We talking small rooms where space is a real virtue, or larger rooms? But tons of options out there. Older Polk bookies like RT-35i or RT-25i go for a song, Peerless Monitor 4's for a hundy or Monitor 7's if you have the room, attractive small floorstanders like LS-50's for a hundy all day long, even brand new S50's wouldn't break your bank if you are patient and wait for the sales with free shipping. Douglass's Furez 14/2 for .75 cents a foot like Victor said, or even better try to find some MIT EXPS-2's cheap I just sold a whole bunch of them for $50/pr. Heard lots of good things about the new PS Audio Sprout. Lots of inexpensive turntables out there, older semi-auto Technics for example, then get a Denon DL-110 HOMC cart used if can find low miles for a hundy or less - or Nagaoki MP-110. Not sure what kind of phono pre is in the Sprout, but PS Audio is known for decent phono pre's. Parasound z-phono for a hundy more. Oppo 103? Denon 3910 really good SQ for a song if you don't mind a sticky drawer sometimes?

audioluvr · March 2019

Polk Audio Monitor 10's $100-200
MIT Terminator speaker cables $150
B&K AVR 307 or 507 $200
MIT/Audioquest/Wireworld/Bluejean/etc. Interconnects: $100
Cambridge Audio 99 DVD player $100
Bluesound Node Streamer $100-200

Bam! Done! Cheap but big upgrade from 40 yr old vintage stuff or Hello Kitty boom box.

verb · March 2019

Thanks everyone for your input! Here's what I have so far. Items highlighted in green were the value winner for that segment.

Pretty good path for a newbie, IMO. No guarantee on synergy of course, but that is part of the journey. But clearly some choices, the full monty, or get your toes in quick and build on to it!

I also selected the Polk SDA 2B, best bang for the buck. Of course, you could select something less and hit the budget.

Disclaimer: The monoprice amp I just couldn't recommend, for those that remember!

recoveryone · March 2019

$500, now you guys are in my ball park and these are setups that I own in my daughters' rooms.

1st.
AVR Pioneer Elite VSX 32 $80 from Goodwill/Ebay
Speakers Polk Audio RTi6 $75 Ebay
Sub Polk Audio PSW10 $60 Ebay
Transport Logictech Touch $120 Ebay

2nd.
AVR Pioneer VSX s811D $40 Ebay
Speakers Polk Audio T15 $30 Ebay
Sub Optimus Pro SW10 $40 Ebay
Transport Logictech Touch $150 Ebay

3rd.
AVR Sony STR DG510 $25 Ebay
Speakers Polk Audio R30 $100 Ebay
Sub Onkyo Skw-100 $30 Ebay
Transport Logictech Touch $200 Ebay

Server.
Dell small form factor quad core 760 w/win7 $50 Ebay

verb · March 2019

Nice job! Good approach with the AVR and digital transport! And a sub! Daughters must be happy they have a great Dad!

codycatalist · March 2019

Look at all my highlights! I guess I'm a cheap bast**d.

verb · March 2019

codycatalist wrote: »

Look at all my highlights! I guess I'm a cheap bast**d.

Nope. Just a better shopper!

recoveryone · March 2019

verb wrote: »

Nice job! Good approach with the AVR and digital transport! And a sub! Daughters must be happy they have a great Dad!

I wish, they think this is how its suppose to be until they visit their friends and see the difference. Little they know this is my master plan to choose which room I will make my listening space once they are gone.....lol. The boys are gone and they are NEXT!!!!!!!

WLDock · March 2019

So, would these newbies be the ones that have $1K-$2K MacBook, $1K IPhone, $500 Apple Watch, $300-$400 Bose Noise canceling headphones, $150 AirPods, etc. Yet, a stereo hasn't really be high on the priority list?

I think this wave of active wireless products are designed just for them. Good sound in the $500-$2000 range with little fuss.

SVS Prime Wireless Speakers - $599
KEF LSX Wireless - $1099

Outlaw Audio M8 Subwoofer - $329
SVS SB1000 subwoofer - $499
KEF Q400 subwoofer - $399
KEF Kube1 subwoofer- $299

KEF LS50 Wireless Music System + (KUBE10b Subwoofer for $100.00) - $2299

or a more traditional route integrated w/built in DAC.

Music Hall a30.3 integrated w/ Bluetooth & DAC - $998.1
KEF Q150 - $349
KEF Q350 - $499

Yes, scouring the used market is the way to find great gear for cheap, however I can see the gotta have it now Apple crowd dropping one of the above combos on a credit card when they decide to dive in and get a decent music system (Tower speaker, Separates, DAC, etc). Then, if they get really into it down the road the above system can move into a bedroom, office, etc as a second system.

dromunds · March 2019

One must be careful when purchasing a budget system to avoid false economy. Sometimes an extra bit of money here or there can be a dramatic improvement. It’s not just about getting the cheapest system per se. Bang for the buck is key. Also how easy gear will be to resell if/when you want to move up the ladder, as well as how good the gear will retain its resale value and other considerations. An example would be large floorstanders that cannot be sold locally if you are not close to an urban area and be cost prohibitive to ship. Some of the factors are beyond our ability to foresee but we can make best calls given what we know at the time.

mhardy6647 · March 2019

What? You mean -- like the 31 (or 32) dollar preamps that are all the rage some places?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HEQJGPC/?coliid=I3BI9BLDUAUTQZ&colid=275L7HVXZ1D1B&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

steveinaz · March 2019

The good news for audio noobs is that there is some great, high value equipment out there; especially if you go used. There's a million combo's. I would likely have an integrated, streamer, speakers, cabling. That gets you up and running quick--then later look at AC power conditioners, etc.

MrBuhl · March 2019

For years I ran with the following:
Harman Kardon AVR20II - $50
Polk 5b Speakers - $75 (later 2bs)
Sony S9000es - $175
Monster speaker wire $25
Monster 300 ic's $30
$355 total
If you're just dipping your toes, a rig like this sounds better than it has a right to I can tell you that. I also gave this rig to my son a couple years ago:
Harman Kardon AVR $150 (work cleanout cant remember model but was newer one)
Technics Linear Tracking $35 (goodwill)
Boston Acoustics a100's $75 (yard sale including crossover and reframing by me)
The same monster ic's and wire above (free but let's say) $55
Phillips BT streamer $45
Total $360
Neither is audiophile, but both will get you into very good sounding tunes for very short money.

verb · March 2019

Wow! Good stuff @MrBuhl love it!

Emlyn · March 2019

halo wrote: »

OK folks, you're also talking about a group of people who think Beats and Bose are the bees knees (and that stuff is not cheap). But, they're willing to spend $ to get the "best." They typically like to buy new. Sure, you can find amazing bargains buying used but you have to be patient and diligent.

Upgrade to Klipsch the Sixes and you're still only at $1470.

Great recommendations, and I agree on the Klipsch Sixes and a streaming subscription like Tidal through a phone or laptop. I would not get the other stuff but add in a smart TV in the 40 inch range with built in streaming apps. One of my biggest sources for finding new music these days is actually Youtube. Just came across Molly Tuttle yesterday. The biggest expense for a newbie used to be getting access to stuff to listen to and watch. Now with online streaming there is too much to listen to and watch for a low price. The Sixes are versatile and can also anchor a 2.1 channel home theater system. One of the best things these days is that powered monitor speakers are highly portable for someone who may be moving frequently.

I see much greater return on the investment for simple powered stereo speakers than the soundbar systems that Polk has put too much of their credibility into in recent years.

heiney9 · March 2019

dragon1952 wrote: »

I don't know. I think compared to newer technology, and at similar price points, the Adcom stuff has pretty much been left in the dust. As for NAD, and I've owned quite a few of their offerings in the past, I just was never all that impressed.

What "newer" technology amplifiers are you talking about? I am not aware of any newer amp technology or pre-amp technology for that matter.

CDP's, yes, that's a given.

Adcom stuff holds up quite well. It might be a matter of preference, and or features with the newer stuff. But there hasn't been much if any, especially mid-fi, newer technology beyond, remote capabilities and streaming, and video processing, etc. But those are features that have little to do with end sound.

H9

codycatalist · March 2019

heiney9 wrote: »

dragon1952 wrote: »

I don't know. I think compared to newer technology, and at similar price points, the Adcom stuff has pretty much been left in the dust. As for NAD, and I've owned quite a few of their offerings in the past, I just was never all that impressed.

What "newer" technology amplifiers are you talking about? I am not aware of any newer amp technology or pre-amp technology for that matter.

CDP's, yes, that's a given.

Adcom stuff holds up quite well. It might be a matter of preference, and or features with the newer stuff. But there hasn't been much if any, especially mid-fi, newer technology beyond, remote capabilities and streaming, and video processing, etc. But those are features that have little to do with end sound.

H9

I dig my Adcom amp, is the be end all...no but it was never meant to be. Recapped I can live with the amp for many years. Low end control, weight to the music and presentation. Yeah lack of speaker protection sucks but it is what it is.

halo · March 2019

heiney9 wrote: »

dragon1952 wrote: »

I don't know. I think compared to newer technology, and at similar price points, the Adcom stuff has pretty much been left in the dust. As for NAD, and I've owned quite a few of their offerings in the past, I just was never all that impressed.

What "newer" technology amplifiers are you talking about? I am not aware of any newer amp technology or pre-amp technology for that matter.

CDP's, yes, that's a given.

Adcom stuff holds up quite well. It might be a matter of preference, and or features with the newer stuff. But there hasn't been much if any, especially mid-fi, newer technology beyond, remote capabilities and streaming, and video processing, etc. But those are features that have little to do with end sound.

H9

Brock,

Class D is "newer" technology, is it not?

@dragon1952 - I disagree that NAD doesn't make some solid, good sounding, gear. That said, if you don't dig the NAD "house" sound, that's cool. We all like different stuff

codycatalist · March 2019

halo wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

dragon1952 wrote: »

I don't know. I think compared to newer technology, and at similar price points, the Adcom stuff has pretty much been left in the dust. As for NAD, and I've owned quite a few of their offerings in the past, I just was never all that impressed.

What "newer" technology amplifiers are you talking about? I am not aware of any newer amp technology or pre-amp technology for that matter.

CDP's, yes, that's a given.

Adcom stuff holds up quite well. It might be a matter of preference, and or features with the newer stuff. But there hasn't been much if any, especially mid-fi, newer technology beyond, remote capabilities and streaming, and video processing, etc. But those are features that have little to do with end sound.

H9

Brock,

Class D is "newer" technology, is it not?

@dragon1952 - I disagree that NAD doesn't make some solid, good sounding, gear. That said, if you don't dig the NAD "house" sound, that's cool. We all like different stuff

Class D (on a commercial basis) can be traced back to the mid/late 60s. Class T on the other hand was coined in '96.

heiney9 · March 2019

halo wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

dragon1952 wrote: »

I don't know. I think compared to newer technology, and at similar price points, the Adcom stuff has pretty much been left in the dust. As for NAD, and I've owned quite a few of their offerings in the past, I just was never all that impressed.

What "newer" technology amplifiers are you talking about? I am not aware of any newer amp technology or pre-amp technology for that matter.

CDP's, yes, that's a given.

Adcom stuff holds up quite well. It might be a matter of preference, and or features with the newer stuff. But there hasn't been much if any, especially mid-fi, newer technology beyond, remote capabilities and streaming, and video processing, etc. But those are features that have little to do with end sound.

H9

Brock,

Class D is "newer" technology, is it not?

@dragon1952 - I disagree that NAD doesn't make some solid, good sounding, gear. That said, if you don't dig the NAD "house" sound, that's cool. We all like different stuff

Class D and it's variants has been around quite awhile. It's certainly not new technology. And I don't expect everyone to like all brands, but the post was pretty emphatic that new technology leaves Adcom and NAD in the dust. I'd like to know what this new amp technology is that is so superior to past giants......lol.

The only person on a consumer level that I know of that is tinkering with topologies and new (to audio) semiconductors is NP and this is on a small scale and more of a "I'm going to try this and see how it sounds" type of thing.

Perhaps I took the post too literal, but it's a pretty big statement and was just wondering about a deeper explanation.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

Rock on

H9

heiney9 · March 2019

Budget system:

Original Adcom 535 Amp, refurbed because they are long in the tooth
Keces DA131 DAC
Eastern Electric Mini Max
Polk 5B's, w/RD0's and new caps or SDA CRS+ refurbed
MIT Terminator 2 cables
Music streamer of your choice

This system would make people envious and with a little DIY wouldn't cost that much. Certainly around that $1500 sweet spot.

H9

WLDock · March 2019

heiney9 wrote: »

Class D and it's variants has been around quite awhile. It's certainly not new technology. And I don't expect everyone to like all brands, but the post was pretty emphatic that new technology leaves Adcom and NAD in the dust. I'd like to know what this new amp technology is that is so superior to past giants......lol.

The only person on a consumer level that I know of that is tinkering with topologies and new (to audio) semiconductors is NP and this is on a small scale and more of a "I'm going to try this and see how it sounds" type of thing.

Perhaps I took the post too literal, but it's a pretty big statement and was just wondering about a deeper explanation.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

Rock on

H9

Well, in a typical stereo the audio power amp is the weak link and dated technology. When CD's came along amp tech was behind and the usual cause of noise and distortion followed by speakers being the worst producers of distortion in the system.

So, while amp tech has not changed much components (Surface Mount Device), design, layout, implementation, etc has improved performance even at the mid-fi level. Even Nelson Pass improved his designs after the Adcom years....and so did Adcom with the re release of the new Adcom:

ADCOM wrote:

We have worked long and hard to ensure that the GFA-555se improves upon it’s original eminent version in key areas, delivering even better performance. Externally, the chassis footprint and front panel design are identical to the original. Internally, all circuitry has been upgraded to meet ETL/ETLc, FCC, LVD and CE/EMC requirements using UL approved FR-4 printed circuit boards. High performance component selections include ultra low ESR electrolytic capacitors. The result of these improvements is lower distortion, better dynamic range, improved damping factor and greater stability and separation of individual instruments on the sound stage.

As far as class D, its been around for awhile but it did not really hit the mainstream until the early 2000's. So it is a newer tech that has literally changed the game as to what can be done. Tech like ICEpower, N-Core, Pascal are making strides in the audiophile world.

Also, there are newer twists like the Benchmark / THX patented AHB2 amp that improve distortion, noise, dynamic range performance. It betters class AB performance with class D efficiency. I listen to the setup at the 2015 AXPONA and though it was a squeaky clean sounding system. I wouldn't mind having one and a Benchmark DAC3!

https://www.namm.org/sites/www.namm.org/files_public/presskits/wn15/benchmark-media-systems/AHB2 Audio Power Amplifier.pdf

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/benchmark-ahb2-amplifier/
https://www.stereophile.com/content/benchmark-media-systems-ahb2-power-amplifier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5AUmDlyZSA

heiney9 · March 2019

All marketing BS. Amps haven't changed that much, just some new window dressing. You're way off on the NP information as well.

All gear is built to a price point, increase the price point increases the performance. Has little to do with better technology. This is why it's important to compare like gear and not compare a $300 piece of gear to a $15,000 piece of gear.

WLDock · March 2019

Well, there's not an engineer or audiophile that will disagree with you but what specifically are you saying is marketing BS?

heiney9 · March 2019

An A/B amp is still an A/B amp with all it's trade-offs. Some choose to minimize and/or exploit those certain trade-offs, but rest assured it's still an A/B amp and no revolutionary technology is being employed.

H9

WLDock · March 2019

Yes, all agree that an A/B amp is an A/B amp. As far as revolutionary power audio technology of the 21th Century? There are NONE! In Benchmark & THX defense, I hadn't read anything from them that stated that they had a revolutionary new design but a groundbreaking design twist on old technologies. The amp measures well and backs up the claim.

Nevertheless, the world is streaming, the new generation of audiophiles are discovering vinyl, and engineers are tweaking class A/B, D amps to measure and sound better, and tube guys could care less about solid state.

Budget 2CH Rig for Newbies - A Challenge

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