Okey-dokey, (finally) the ELAC "DEBUT 2.0 B6.2" loudspeakers are, umm, speaking

2

Comments

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    OK, the loudspeakers are perched astride a pair of KLH Sixes that my son brought me home at Christmastime (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, you know?).

    Yeah, yuuuuuuuuuge difference in balance across the spectrum from the previous orientation. Much better. Much, much better.

    I am such a moron. :/

    further details as events warrant.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    edited January 11
    OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me. :(

    Ergo

    This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.

    All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.

    In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.


    16335232805_265dd4f0a5_h.jpgSemi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc

    PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera. :)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    I rejiggered the 'system' to which these are connected and have finally made some positive progress on them.

    If you're suitably curious or bored, you can read my "review" at:
    https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-an-ongoing-review.4433/


    u3ev23z9p57z.png
  • OleBootOleBoot Posts: 451
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I rejiggered the 'system' to which these are connected and have finally made some positive progress on them.

    If you're suitably curious or bored, you can read my "review" at:
    https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-an-ongoing-review.4433/


    u3ev23z9p57z.png

    I was bored and curious, so I read your review. Very pithy. I suspect spiked steel stands as opposed to your custom structures may do something for the bass, but I am surprised that they are rolled off - the majority of modern speakers seem bright to me.

    Now, to address the elephant in the room (your room), to wit: what is the article at bottom right three quarters in the photo? A valve, sorry tube, telephone handset? A satellite phone? An audiophile sound measurement device? An interrossiter?
    I started out with nothing and have most of it left.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 2,588
    It’s a walkie talkie to monitor chatter between Mike and Eleven
    SPEAKERS - ELAC ADANTE AF-61, TOTEM RAINMAKER, SONUS FABER SOLO, DEFINITIVE TECH SM350, MIRAGE OASIS, SONOS PLAY 5 & 1'S, SVS SB16 ULTRA

    POWER - PS AUDIO M700, LINN LK240, MARANTZ SR5013

    PRE/DACS - PS AUDIO STELLAR GAIN, CAMBRIDGE AUDIO CXN V2

    SOURCE - DENON 2910, SONY CDX355, JVC XM448, REGA P2 (MODDED) ANIA CART, REGA FONO MC, XBOX 1 S, TIVO BOLT

    POWER/WIRES - AQ NIAGARA 5000, AQ HURRICANE HC (2M), AQ MONSOON HC (2M) , AQ COLORADO XLR (2M & 1M) AND RCAs(1M), AQ VICTORIA(1M), ACOUSTIC ZEN SATORI W JUMPERS(3M), ATLAS EOS PC, WW STRATUS X3/AURORA X1 PC, AQ CARBON HDMIs

    MISC- OKKI NOKKI RCM, HARMONY ELITE, SONY 75XBR900E
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    OleBoot wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I rejiggered the 'system' to which these are connected and have finally made some positive progress on them.

    If you're suitably curious or bored, you can read my "review" at:
    https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-an-ongoing-review.4433/


    u3ev23z9p57z.png

    I was bored and curious, so I read your review. Very pithy. I suspect spiked steel stands as opposed to your custom structures may do something for the bass, but I am surprised that they are rolled off - the majority of modern speakers seem bright to me.

    Now, to address the elephant in the room (your room), to wit: what is the article at bottom right three quarters in the photo? A valve, sorry tube, telephone handset? A satellite phone? An audiophile sound measurement device? An interrossiter?

    The stand thing is bugging me :p For two reasons:
    1) I don't's gots no good/modern stands. :#
    2) Why should the purchaser of a cheap pair of entry-level loudspeakers have to spend as much or more for a pair of stands to put 'em on?

    I'm goin' all Andy Rooney now! :) Aren't these bookshelf speakers? Can't we expect people [i[to put 'em on bookshelves?[/i]. ;)

    OK, OK, yeah -- no bookshelves in the room, either ('cept a couple of IKEA Expedites, which won't work). :p

    The gizmo is a dump find speaker phone/cordless (yes, land line) :) It is my "office phone" for my consultancy :)

  • OleBootOleBoot Posts: 451
    What is this "land line"? :|

    Nowadays describing such speakers as "bookshelf" is a complete misnomer. It's not what they're designed for anymore, if it ever was - maybe somebody called them that as their size meant they would fit on a bookshelf. We have "floorstanders", so maybe these should be "standstanders?
    I started out with nothing and have most of it left.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    OleBoot wrote: »
    What is this "land line"? :|

    Nowadays describing such speakers as "bookshelf" is a complete misnomer. It's not what they're designed for anymore, if it ever was - maybe somebody called them that as their size meant they would fit on a bookshelf. We have "floorstanders", so maybe these should be "standstanders?

    I like that -- it's deliciously tautological.

    wobffh63at8x.png
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 2,588
    I’m getting no one got the Stranger Things reference.
    SPEAKERS - ELAC ADANTE AF-61, TOTEM RAINMAKER, SONUS FABER SOLO, DEFINITIVE TECH SM350, MIRAGE OASIS, SONOS PLAY 5 & 1'S, SVS SB16 ULTRA

    POWER - PS AUDIO M700, LINN LK240, MARANTZ SR5013

    PRE/DACS - PS AUDIO STELLAR GAIN, CAMBRIDGE AUDIO CXN V2

    SOURCE - DENON 2910, SONY CDX355, JVC XM448, REGA P2 (MODDED) ANIA CART, REGA FONO MC, XBOX 1 S, TIVO BOLT

    POWER/WIRES - AQ NIAGARA 5000, AQ HURRICANE HC (2M), AQ MONSOON HC (2M) , AQ COLORADO XLR (2M & 1M) AND RCAs(1M), AQ VICTORIA(1M), ACOUSTIC ZEN SATORI W JUMPERS(3M), ATLAS EOS PC, WW STRATUS X3/AURORA X1 PC, AQ CARBON HDMIs

    MISC- OKKI NOKKI RCM, HARMONY ELITE, SONY 75XBR900E
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 5,369
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I’m getting no one got the Stranger Things reference.

    Oh I got it. Awesome show!

    I will concur, Mark, that I was quite amazed way back in the day at the difference good, filled stands made in the bass response and imaging or a pair of RTi6s. And yes, they add quite a bit percentage wise to the cost, which is why a lot of folks here will say you may as well just go for the floorstanders...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; B&K TX4430; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP; NVidia ShieldTV
    ;
    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Parasound HCA-1000A, PSB Imagine B, NHT Super One CI surrounds, Martin Logan Dynamo (original), Squeezebox Touch
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,373
    edited January 17
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I’m getting no one got the Stranger Things reference.

    Yeah I got it, which is why I LOL’d it.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • OleBootOleBoot Posts: 451
    edited January 17
    I like that -- it's deliciously tautological.

    I'd be more inclined to call it a lot of old bollocks.
    I started out with nothing and have most of it left.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    OleBoot wrote: »
    I like that -- it's deliciously tautological.

    I'd be more inclined to call it a lot of old bollocks.

    Not necessarily mutually exclusive B)
  • OleBootOleBoot Posts: 451
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    OleBoot wrote: »
    I like that -- it's deliciously tautological.

    I'd be more inclined to call it a lot of old bollocks.

    Not necessarily mutually exclusive B)

    A testicular tautology? I had that once after a rugby match...oh, wait a minute, torsion, that was the word.
    I started out with nothing and have most of it left.
  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,236
    edited January 18
    Ok, let's see here. Your usual speakers are dynamic, horn based(ear bleeding, headache inducing) Altecs. You feel the Elac's are rolled off. Here's my shocked face 😱.

    Sorry, bad attempt at humor. But your impressions seem pretty predictable.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    Well, now -- I see your point B)
    Nothing ear-bleeding about the daily drivers here -- I am real sensitive to the ear-gougers (remember that I once owned a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls).

    The modern hot treble trend is not in evidence with these ELACs -- and, mind you, that's consistent with "literature reports" and it's also not unwelcome.

    It's the midbass resonance that is galling me.

    The consensus absolutely seems to be - put 'em up on proper stands.

    Plans are undergoing foment.

    but, but, but...

    now I need to go all Andy Rooney again (wonder how he felt about ear-gouging loudspeakers?):

    You know, I am fine with the notion of loudspeakers that are designed to present themselves properly on stands. But, I mean, you know* -- shouldn't the manufacturer, like, tell you that "for best results, you'll want to put these on
    stands that cost at least as much as the speakers"? Maybe even sell a pair of stands for them? Is that asking too much? :#

    Here's the information from the 'instruction manual' that comes with the speakers.

    foy0c4gn1nbh.png

    vl67byhyycgc.png

    source: https://elac-content.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/02/Final-Debut-2.0-Owners-Manual-English.pdf

    I mean, am I asking too much?

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some clouds that I have to go out and yell at now.
    ;)

    y6xlidew92ny.png

    ______________
    * You can hear ol' Andy saying this, right? ;)

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    Actually, in seriousness and out of deference to their instructions, I should try them "1 to 2 feet" from the back wall, as suggested :p Kind of hard to imagine that
    such placement could improve response irregularities in the midbass, but, heck,
    1) I've been wrong before, 2) it is possible that Andy & Co. know more than me about their product, and 3) it's hard to beat empiricism.

    :#
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    OK, score: the rest of the internet (maybe the real world, too) 1, Marky 0.
    But that's not a bad thing - at least in this case.

    3he1ozzbeyph.png

    Yeah, kind of a decaying urban inner-city neighborhood way to get them, sort of, onto more appropriate stands -- but even this proved the point.

    Thanks, folks! More to come on these loudspeakers anon.

    Read my exploits, if time's hangin' heavy on your hands, at:
    https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-an-ongoing-review.4433/post-85207

    Oh, one other thought/question -- the aforementioned local guru who recommended these loudspeakers to me in the first place has also suggested these.

    o96hfynphzmk.png
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U5T6JNS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I mean, they only cost thirty-nine dollars more than did the loudspeakers. :|

    His comment, though:
    I also purchased these to work together with the stands:
    ...
    Yes they do work!


    Any thought/comments/experience -- or similar products/ideas? I mean, I do have more hocky pucks in stock! ;)


  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 5,426
    @mhardy6647 I got a pair of those for myself when I bought em for my daughter since they were half price. Keep the reviews coming because mine are in another State and I haven't been able to look at them since I got em lol
  • vmaxervmaxer Posts: 4,360
    edited January 19
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me. :(

    Ergo

    This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.

    All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.

    In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.


    16335232805_265dd4f0a5_h.jpgSemi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc

    PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera. :)

    @mhardy6647

    Hummm, first SOILED STATE I’ve heard of???

    >:) o:)
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 5,426
    These are the ones I wanted to cinder block
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    vmaxer wrote: »
    ...
    @mhardy6647

    Hummm, first SOILED STATE I’ve heard of???

    >:) o:)

    What, here?
    heh-heh-heh.
    For better or worse, I am a child of the seventies.

    16598078796_36a86848da_h.jpgDSC_0187 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    16857818531_f129fdcef9_h.jpgDSC_0322 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    16857818051_ce0674decd_h.jpgDSC_0326 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    16832987226_f01b68f88a_h.jpgDSC_0328 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,929
    Love vintage equipment. Sometimes I think about buying a early/mid-70's monster Pioneer Integrated.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i | Preamp/DAC: PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Signal Cable Analog 2 XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; DH Labs D-75 Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Love vintage equipment. Sometimes I think about buying a early/mid-70's monster Pioneer Integrated.

    it would be kind of cool to have an SA-9500 (II)... not necessarily to listen to, but definitely to look at. :)

    md2mjhau06lc.png



  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 2,588
    That’s more silver than a James Avery store
    SPEAKERS - ELAC ADANTE AF-61, TOTEM RAINMAKER, SONUS FABER SOLO, DEFINITIVE TECH SM350, MIRAGE OASIS, SONOS PLAY 5 & 1'S, SVS SB16 ULTRA

    POWER - PS AUDIO M700, LINN LK240, MARANTZ SR5013

    PRE/DACS - PS AUDIO STELLAR GAIN, CAMBRIDGE AUDIO CXN V2

    SOURCE - DENON 2910, SONY CDX355, JVC XM448, REGA P2 (MODDED) ANIA CART, REGA FONO MC, XBOX 1 S, TIVO BOLT

    POWER/WIRES - AQ NIAGARA 5000, AQ HURRICANE HC (2M), AQ MONSOON HC (2M) , AQ COLORADO XLR (2M & 1M) AND RCAs(1M), AQ VICTORIA(1M), ACOUSTIC ZEN SATORI W JUMPERS(3M), ATLAS EOS PC, WW STRATUS X3/AURORA X1 PC, AQ CARBON HDMIs

    MISC- OKKI NOKKI RCM, HARMONY ELITE, SONY 75XBR900E
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,929
    I think I have a woody.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i | Preamp/DAC: PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Signal Cable Analog 2 XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; DH Labs D-75 Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    steveinaz wrote: »
    I think I have a woody.

    10-4.

    ... the best I can do here is this bad boy (bad girl?)...

    11535696185_165df1328f_b.jpgDSC_6689_z by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,309
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    What amp are you running them with?

    In all seriousness :p see the first post. hk770

    Love that era of HK stuff, we have a few different items from then (early 80s) The only bad thing, that champagne finish, is not super durable over time and shows dirt really easily.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Epos-Now gone
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,309
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me. :(

    Ergo

    This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.

    All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.

    In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.


    16335232805_265dd4f0a5_h.jpgSemi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc

    PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera. :)

    Interesting. The yamaha is 100 Watts/Channel, but honestly think the HK would put out more real world power.
    Even rated at 70 watts/channel HK's were usually under-rated, and would often do, almost double the rated output, and worked great with even 4 ohm loads.

    If anything the condition of the HK may be in question, as you say.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Epos-Now gone
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,458
    K_M wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me. :(

    Ergo

    This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.

    All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.

    In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.


    16335232805_265dd4f0a5_h.jpgSemi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc

    PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera. :)

    Interesting. The yamaha is 100 Watts/Channel, but honestly think the HK would put out more real world power.
    Even rated at 70 watts/channel HK's were usually under-rated, and would often do, almost double the rated output, and worked great with even 4 ohm loads.

    If anything the condition of the HK may be in question, as you say.

    I concur, which is why I started with the hk. Well, that and the fact it's lighter and was easier to disinter than the Yamaha. :)

    The hk is strictly as found, though.
    On the other hand, it was only $40... which is why it followed me home.
    It seems to work fine, but it is also safe to assume it's in need of refreshment.
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